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DMAE (orally for the skin)


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#1 syr_

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 04:15 PM


Being centrophenoxine a rx drug in most european countries I had to rely on plain DMAE.
I dont care about the brain and mood effects (I basically feel nothing with 250mg), i'm interested only in the action on the skin regarding:
- improving/preserving skin elasticity
- reducing lipofuscin deposits/preventing them (I'm too young to have them :) )

The main question is dosage for THIS purpose. I havent found a single guideline. General guidelines are between 100 and 300mg a day and no indication is given about divided dosage or not. I have 250mg capsules. I always take one in the morning, 1h after breakfast.

I'm thinking to take a second capsule in the early evening, 1h after lunch.

Suggestions, comments?

#2 zoolander

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:50 PM

I am not aware of any research about DMAE supplementation for improving skin quality.

There is however a recent study looking at the use of DMAE topically,

The role of dimethylaminoethanol in cosmetic dermatology.

Grossman R.

Johnson and Johnson Consumer Products Worldwide, Skillman, NJ 08558, USA.

Skincare formulations for the improvement of aging skin are increasingly important consumer products. Here, we review available data on one such agent - 2-dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) or deanol - that has recently been evaluated in a placebo-controlled trial. DMAE is an analog of the B vitamin choline and is a precursor of acetylcholine. Although the role of acetylcholine as a neurotransmitter is well known, growing evidence points to acetylcholine as a ubiquitous cytokine-like molecule that regulates basic cellular processes such as proliferation, differentiation, locomotion, and secretion in a paracrine and autocrine fashion. Indeed, this modulatory role may contribute to the cutaneous activity of DMAE.In a randomized clinical study, 3% DMAE facial gel applied daily for 16 weeks has been shown to be safe and efficacious (p < 0.05) in the mitigation of forehead lines and periorbital fine wrinkles, and in improving lip shape and fullness and the overall appearance of aging skin. These effects did not regress during a 2-week cessation of application. Beneficial trends (p > 0.05 but The acute skin-firming effects of DMAE have been confirmed by quantitative measures of cutaneous tensile strength. In vitro studies in peripheral blood lymphocytes indicate that DMAE is a moderately active anti-inflammatory agent. Although its mechanisms of action in the skin remain to be elucidated, evidence suggests that the skin is an active site of acetylcholine synthesis, storage, secretion, metabolism, and receptivity. Muscarinic acetylcholine receptors have been localized to keratinocytes, melanocytes and dermal fibroblasts, whereas nicotinic acetylcholine receptors have been found in keratinocytes. The role of acetylcholine and the role of DMAE as a modulator of acetylcholine-mediated functions in the skin remain to be elucidated.Thus, the benefits of DMAE in dermatology include a potential anti-inflammatory effect and a documented increase in skin firmness with possible improvement in underlying facial muscle tone. Studies are needed to evaluate the relative efficacy of DMAE compared with other skin-care regimens (e.g., topical antioxidant creams, alpha-hydroxy acids).

Publication Types:

    * Review

PMID: 15675889 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


NOTE: the above research was conducted by Johnson and Johnson. If you search the Johnson & Johnson website you will find that they sell DMAE products.

There is a great free online paper about Nutritional skin care here.

If you don't want to read the paper then here is the abstract

Nutritional skin care: health effects of micronutrients and fatty acids.

Boelsma E, Hendriks HF, Roza L.

TNO Nutrition and Food Research, the Department of Nutritional Physiology, Zeist, Netherlands. boelsma@voeding.tno.nl

Human skin is continuously exposed to internal and external influences that may alter its condition and functioning. As a consequence, the skin may undergo alterations leading to photoaging, inflammation, immune dysfunction, imbalanced epidermal homeostasis, or other skin disorders. Modern nutritional science is developing new insights into the relation between food intake and health, and effects of food ingredients may prove to be biologically relevant for optimal skin condition. The objective of this review was to evaluate the present knowledge about the interrelation of nutrients and skin, particularly the photoprotective effects of nutrients, the influences of nutrients on cutaneous immune responses, and therapeutic actions of nutrients in skin disorders. The nutrients of focus were vitamins, carotenoids, and polyunsaturated fatty acids. Supplementation with these nutrients was shown to provide protection against ultraviolet light, although the sun-protection factor was relatively small compared with that of topical sunscreens. An increase in delayed-type hypersensitivity skin responses after supplementation with nutrients has proven beneficial, especially in elderly people, and may boost cell-mediated immunity. Dietary consumption of certain plants or fish oil is known to modulate the balance of lipid inflammatory mediators and, therefore, is valuable in the treatment of inflammatory skin disorders. It was concluded that nutritional factors exert promising actions on the skin, but information on the effects of low-to-moderate doses of nutrients consumed long term by healthy individuals is obviously lacking, as are data on direct effects on basal skin properties, including hydration, sebum production, and elasticity.

Publication Types:

    * Review

PMID: 11333837 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


If you are interested in improving/preserving the elasticity of the skin then I would be looking at anti-glycation products

Quote from here.

Glycation is a slow, nonenzymatic reaction that takes place between free amino groups in proteins primarily from lysine and a reducing sugar such as glucose or ribose. In skin, this reaction creates new residues or formations of cross-links (advanced glycation end products, AGEs) in the extracellular matrix of the dermis. The formation of these bridges between dermal molecules is supposed to be responsible for loss of elasticity or other properties of the dermis observed during aging.


Additionally

The Maillard reaction inhibitors and their biological and therapeutic significance.

Sztanke K, Pasternak K.

Department of Synthesis and Technology of Drugs, Medical University of Lublin.

The formation of AGE crosslinks as a result of the Maillard reaction is reduced by several drugs (aminoguanidine, OPB-9195, tenilsetam, aspirin), substances of natural origin (carnosine, homocarnosine) and antioxidants. These compounds are the Maillard reaction inhibitors, but do not seem to break AGE-derived protein crosslinks, which have already formed and therefore will not be effective in patients with a long history of the disease. The first in a new class of compounds that have been shown the ability to chemically reverse the Maillard reaction is PTB. This compound breaks the carbon-carbon bond between two carbonyls of glucose-derived protein crosslinks.

Publication Types:

    * Review

PMID: 15323184 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


So in summary, currently I don't think is any research supporting the use of DMAE supplementation for improving skin quality. Perhaps more research needs to be done.

For now, I would focus on other areas to improve/preserve the quality of your skin. The number one thing that I would be doing is using SPF 30+ sunscreen.

I hope this has helped somewhat

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#3 xanadu

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:54 PM

There was a doctor on tv a while back who strongly recommended dmae for the skin and for brain enhancement. Can't think of the name off hand but it was italian. I've seen skin creams that had dmae in them. I think it works better orally.

#4 Pablo M

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:21 PM

Another good way to protect the skin is to use UV-protective clothing.

#5 zoolander

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:31 PM

There was a doctor on tv a while back who strongly recommended dmae for the skin and for brain enhancement. Can't think of the name off hand but it was italian. I've seen skin creams that had dmae in them. I think it works better orally.


I don't think that helps answer syr_ question.

I am not too sure what other members think but IMO I think syr_ deserves a little more than what you put in your response. Syr_ asked a valid question. Staing that there was a doctor on TV (name unknown) recommending DMAE for the skin and brain on top of saying that you "think" it works better orally, doesn't really answer the question.

Anyway, they're just my thoughts.

#6 london710

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 02:59 PM

have u read the studies on centro and dmae on google sci.lifeextension lately? some interesting stuff...

Effects of centrophenoxine on lipofuscin
http://groups.google...b93d91676f8fbd1

Effect of dimethylaminoethanol on the life span of senile male A-J mice.
Mean LS extended 49.5% over controls
Maximum LS extended 36.3% over controls
http://groups.google...ba4c1b4b223cb8a

I know that doesnt answers your question directly but follow the link to: http://www.lef.org/a...ging/chap7.html
Chapter 7: Deanol, A Test Case for Anti-Aging Drugs (by the way, read all chapters for good info in many anti-aging drugs)
The author goes to great length to try and establish a guideline dosage for humans:

"I have also written Hochschild seeking his ideas on how dosage might be estimated for humans from his work on mice. In his reply he informed me that the US FDA had given him approval to conduct an experiment on human subjects, and that the dosage which he felt most inclined to try first was 200 mg/day. He suggested an upper bound of safety of 300 mg/day. The FDA approval would suggest that at least the FDA believes that such an experiment would be safe at 200 mg/day"

The poster referring to an italian doctor is likely referring to Dr. Perricone, a self styled guru on the subject, who has written various books (and who sells overpriced products....)

Also most DMAE products comes as DMAE Bitartrate, but as I understand it, they only provide ca 37% actual DMAE. Can anyone elaborate on that?

cheers, k

#7 syr_

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 05:22 PM

There was a doctor on tv a while back who strongly recommended dmae for the skin and for brain enhancement. Can't think of the name off hand but it was italian. I've seen skin creams that had dmae in them. I think it works better orally.


I don't think that helps answer syr_ question.

I am not too sure what other members think but IMO I think syr_ deserves a little more than what you put in your response. Syr_ asked a valid question. Staing that there was a doctor on TV (name unknown) recommending DMAE for the skin and brain on top of saying that you "think" it works better orally, doesn't really answer the question.

Anyway, they're just my thoughts.


Thanks Zoolander.
I "think" DMAE works best topically :) But that wouldnt answer my original question of effect of oral intake :)
It would have been nice indeed if xanadu had some study to backup his thoughts.

#8 syr_

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 05:32 PM

have u read the studies on centro and dmae on google sci.lifeextension lately? some interesting stuff...

Effects of centrophenoxine on lipofuscin
http://groups.google...b93d91676f8fbd1

Effect of dimethylaminoethanol on the life span of senile male A-J mice.
Mean LS extended 49.5% over controls
Maximum LS extended 36.3% over controls
http://groups.google...ba4c1b4b223cb8a

I know that doesnt answers your question directly but follow the link to: http://www.lef.org/a...ging/chap7.html
Chapter 7: Deanol, A Test Case for Anti-Aging Drugs (by the way, read all chapters for good info in many anti-aging drugs)
The author goes to great length to try and establish a guideline dosage for humans:

"I have also written Hochschild seeking his ideas on how dosage might be estimated for humans from his work on mice. In his reply he informed me that the US FDA had given him approval to conduct an experiment on human subjects, and that the dosage which he felt most inclined to try first was 200 mg/day. He suggested an upper bound of safety of 300 mg/day. The FDA approval would suggest that at least the FDA believes that such an experiment would be safe at 200 mg/day"

The poster referring to an italian doctor is likely referring to Dr. Perricone, a self styled guru on the subject, who has written various books (and who sells overpriced products....)

Also most DMAE products comes as DMAE Bitartrate, but as I understand it, they only provide ca 37% actual DMAE. Can anyone elaborate on that?

cheers, k


I dont think Perricone is italian and btw his cosmeuticals are heavily overpriced and nothing special.

My product (NOW brand) says DMAE 250mg (from DMAE bitartrate) per capsule. Its an A capsule and there are fillers too. I believe that 37% ratio is correct.

Thanks, this basically answer my question about dosage. I dont want to risk with 500mg, even I didnt feel anything different when I tried taking 2 caps.
I had read something about centrophenoxine and lipofuscin that was attributed to the DMAE part of it, its quite strange that there is no data using only DMAE.

#9 syr_

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 06:21 PM

There is a great free online paper about Nutritional skin care here.

For now, I would focus on other areas to improve/preserve the quality of your skin. The number one thing that I would be doing is using SPF 30+ sunscreen.

I hope this has helped somewhat


That paper is very very interesting. I will read it later, but I think my current regimen and the part that address the skin is good.
It is also interesting the role of anti-glycation in preventing skin collagen degeneration, which I didnt know. I though only substances that help to build collagen were needed, besides vitamin C. Anyway my protocol:

Vitamin C (ester c + bioflavonoids) 2.5g
Quercetin: 500mg
AOR Age Amadori: 2 caps (which I planned to stop but I'm going to continue thanks to this new information :) ) [see label for dosage of key actives]
beta-carotene: 25.000 IU (I will switch to mixed carotenoids when I can find a good product in EU)
AOR Total E: 2 cap [see label for composition, alpha-tocopherol intake is 190mg]
other antioxidants that may have a beneficial effect on skin (sylmarin, astaxanthin, grape)
EPA/DHA: 2.800mg
GLA (soon to be added): about 1g

And DMAE... which I will keep taking at 250mg daily I think for overall anti-aging, hoping for some effect on the skin from the insice, since i cant apply a DMAE tonic on my WHOLE body :)

#10 xanadu

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 07:56 PM

Yes, it was Perricone I was thinking of and he is of italian ancestry.

zoolander wrote:

"I don't think that helps answer syr_ question"

It was all I had at the moment. It did lead to some information and regardless of how much he charges, the man is a doctor and thinks it's good to take orally. It could have been more complete, I could have gone out and done a big search but that was what I had off the top of my head, for what it was worth. Why sneer at my input?

#11 syr_

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 09:59 PM

What do u guys think of my skin regimen?

Scott, if you are here pop in ;)

#12 zoolander

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 01:06 AM

A recent study out today

Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2006 May 4;19(4):224-231

Antioxidant Supplements Improve Parameters Related to Skin Structure in Humans.

Heinrich U, Tronnier H, Stahl W, Bejot M, Maurette JM.

Institute of Experimental Dermatology, University of Witten/Herdecke, Witten, Germany.

In the present study we investigated the influence of two different antioxidant supplements composed of carotenoids, vitamin E and selenium on parameters related to skin health and skin aging. Thirty-nine volunteers with healthy, normal skin of skin type 2 were divided into 3 groups (n = 13) and supplemented for a period of 12 weeks. Group 1 received a mixture of lycopene (3 mg/day), lutein (3 mg/day), beta-carotene (4.8 mg/day), alpha-tocopherol (10 mg/day) and selenium (75 mug/day). Group 2 was supplemented with a mixture of lycopene (6 mg/day), beta-carotene (4.8 mg/day), alpha-tocopherol (10 mg/day) and selenium (75 mug/day). Group 3 was the placebo control. Upon supplementation serum levels of selected carotenoids increased in both verum groups. Skin density and thickness were determined by ultrasound measurements. A significant increase for both parameters was determined in the verum groups. Roughness, scaling, smoothness and wrinkling of the skin were determined by Surface Evaluation of Living Skin (Visioscan). Roughness and scaling were improved by the supplementation with antioxidant micronutrients. In the placebo group no changes were found for any of the parameters. Copyright © 2006 S. Karger AG, Basel.

PMID: 16679825 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]



#13 syr_

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 11:02 AM

Do you know how to convert mg to IU in case of beta-carotene and vitamin E?
It always confuses me ;)

#14 spins

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 02:36 PM

Do you know how to convert mg to IU in case of beta-carotene and vitamin E?
It always confuses me ;)

IU is a standardized measure of the biological activity so for example a conversion from mg to IU for vitamin E differs if it's synthetic or natural.

http://www.newhope.c....cfm?path=print
http://en.wikipedia....ernational_unit

As you say pretty confusing! :)

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#15 Ghostrider

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 07:24 AM

[quote name='spins' date='-->
QUOTE (spins)
<!--QuoteEBegin']Do you know how to convert mg to IU in case of beta-carotene and vitamin E?
It always confuses me ;)[/quote]
IU is a standardized measure of the biological activity so for example a conversion from mg to IU for vitamin E differs if it's synthetic or natural.

http://www.newhope.c....cfm?path=print
http://en.wikipedia....ernational_unit

As you say pretty confusing! ;)[/quote]

If you want something to improve your skin, are there not better choices to use than DMAE? I tried DMAE as a mental / cognative supplement and it did absolutely nothing for me. I don't even think my skin looks any better. Plus, why would you want to use an ADD supplement to give yourself better skin? See a dermatologist or pick up one of those girly beauty magazines (or just surf the web) and see what tips they recommend. (I have never done this, but I imagine that the advice would be pretty good as girls (on average) are more self-concious about their appearance).




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