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Got off phenibut but still feeling intermittently "weird", anhedonia, anxiety, and depersonalization

phenibut anhedonia depersonalization phenibut withdrawal

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#1 jacobjerondin

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 10:56 PM


Title basically says it all, I managed to get off Phenibut over a month ago using Pregabalin for a couple weeks. I started feeling a lot better after feeling some sort of PAWS for a few weeks perhaps partially thanks to St John's Wort. However, I've noticed that my mood, confidence, and motivation, among other things, seems to fluctuate far more than it should for no reason.

 

In general, I seem to be feeling less social and more robotic than I should be, kinda dissociated and depersonalized. Sometimes, I seem to feel burst of happiness and energy where I feel just like my old self or better, but most of the time I feel at least slightly out of it. I'm a little worried that I did some sort of permanent damage from switching straight off from phenibut onto pregabalin and then off that within a few weeks, and maybe I should've gone with a longer taper despite how rough I found tapering to be.

It's really frustrating because I can't seem to predict what causes these weird feelings at all or when they'll appear. In general, I seem to feel a good bit better at night, so I think part of it might be linked to my morning cortisol spikes being worse than normal. I seem to be much more susceptible to stress than normal which leads me to believe that there might be some issues with my HPTA axis or adrenals.

Beyond supplements to help with that, I'd love any ideas about anything biohacking supplements or devices I should look into to help. I keep considering NSI-189 but I'm a little worried that it might make my anxiety worse.

 

I've been tapering down doxylamine succinate (an antihistamine similar to benadryl) lately, which might be causing me some of the morning anxiety/fogginess, after taking it for around a month so I could sleep decently while getting off Phenibut. So maybe that's part of the problem too?



#2 Azet

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:47 AM

Just a few questions from me, because I found your topic interesting:

1. How did you feel on Phenibut and why you stared taking it? (I don't judge, I'm just curious)

2. What was the difference between being on Pregabalin instead of Phenibut?

I also feel slightly better at night, and considered cortisol to be the culprit, but I'm not so sure about that. Phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol, but it has to be from bovine source which isn't obtainable practically. I suspect too much glutamate to be more involved in those symptoms


Edited by Azet, 09 March 2019 - 11:50 AM.


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#3 jacobjerondin

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 11:46 PM

Just a few questions from me, because I found your topic interesting:

1. How did you feel on Phenibut and why you stared taking it? (I don't judge, I'm just curious)

2. What was the difference between being on Pregabalin instead of Phenibut?

I also feel slightly better at night, and considered cortisol to be the culprit, but I'm not so sure about that. Phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol, but it has to be from bovine source which isn't obtainable practically. I suspect too much glutamate to be more involved in those symptoms

 

1. I started taking f-phenibut because there was no a/c in my apartment during a period of 70-80 degree weather during which I couldn't sleep because I was sweating from the heat. I've always been an easily awoken sleeper and I need to be very comfortable to fall asleep at the best of times. So I started taking f-phenibut to fall asleep quickly because it seemed like I wouldn't be able to sleep otherwise. Then I started taking f-phenibut every night for a couple weeks and increasing the dose because I was worried I wouldn't be able to sleep without it. I started getting withdrawals during the day so I started taking it around the clock, which gave me the best week of my life during which I felt limitless, with unreal motivation, confidence, and background euphoria. Unfortunately it wasn't worth in the slightest because tolerance started building really fast and I still have some PAWS today because I was taking so much (it was really stupid I know and I didn't realize that the f-phenibut was getting me high unfortunately until afterwards, I thought it was feeling really good because everything in my life was going so well).

 

2. Pregabalin is more recreational and far safer to use regularly. It makes me talk more by some strange mechanism rather than just disinhibiting me and making me happy like phenibut does, and it has a lot more euphoria. However it also makes me incredibly hungry for carbs and I get symptoms of hypoglycemia if I don't answer the call of the carbs, lmao. I really hate that because I'm tryna lose weight and pregabalin is known to cause weight gain. It's also not nearly as good for sleep as phenibut but it's a lot more fun overall.



#4 jroseland

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 10:37 AM

Yeah, Phenibut is problematic. How much were you doing? How often? Daily?

 

Look into gabaergic Nootropics

 


Edited by jroseland, 18 May 2019 - 10:38 AM.


#5 jacobjerondin

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:28 AM

Yeah, Phenibut is problematic. How much were you doing? How often? Daily?

 

Look into gabaergic Nootropics

 

Hey Jonathan, thanks so much for your reply, I've been pretty frustrated with no one really responding to this thread so it's really good to hear from you. I've been a fan of your content for a while now, you were one of the first biohacking gurus I ever started listening to when I was just getting into biohacking. I also really dig your medium articles about being an alpha male and the wild stories you tell on them. I do strongly disagree with your latest video on psychedelic microdosing being dangerous, personally it's the best biohack I've ever tried by far but that's kind of off topic.

 

Anyway, my usage started with f-phenibut nightly, which got up to like 600mg or 700mg after a week and a half. Then I switched to phenibut at around 2-3gs to try to get off the f-phenibut but unfortunately I ran out of that so I switched back to f-phenibut to replace the phenibut which really fucked me up. The f-phenibut felt like it was wearing off much faster than the phenibut was, and the effect kicked in much faster too, which led to me taking a few doses per day to replace one or two doses of phenibut.

 

By the end of a week I was taking like 5 or 6 doses of 300 - 400mg of f-phenibut per day, which is the equivalent of like 10g of phenibut per day since f-phenibut is far more potent than phenibut (and it has far higher affinity for gaba-b receptors compared to phenibut). Incredibly stupid and irresponsible, I know. It doesn't matter much now, but as I said, I had no idea how much more potent f-phenibut was and I also didn't know that it was getting me high at those doses, I thought I was just having a really good week until I noticed that the f-phenibut was lasting shorter and shorter periods of time. I was also getting weird feelings of high blood pressure and electric spasm like feelings in my arms sometimes, especially as a dose would start to wear off, so I knew it was time to get off the f-phenibut.

 

I switched back to phenibut but only was taking around 3.2gs per day after taking the equivalent of 10gs of phenibut the week previously. So I felt like absolute shit for a week even on the phenibut, really bad anhedonia, anxiety, insomnia, and the like. After about 10 days or so, I felt really good, like I was back to normal. It even seemed like the phenibut was making me feel great like it used to (this whole time I was maintaining a daily dose of 3.2gs, I didn't want to start tapering until I was feeling better).

 

So then I tried to taper by 100mg, which was decently easy until I got down to around 2.2gs. From there I started feeling really stressed and anhedonic whenever I would reduce my dosage, even trying to do like a taper 30mg a day seemed impossible. So after trying to reduce my dose and making myself get down to around 1.8gs per day, which really sucked, I remembered that I had a few boxes of 150mg pregabalin/lyrica. I'd read that gabapentin and pregabalin were great for getting off phenibut, so I switched to 300mg pregabalin for a week, then tapered down to 150mg for another half a week, and then tapered off from there to nothing over another week. That was all in january, and I still have the PAWS now, tho it's not as bad as it was a couple months ago.

 

I've looked into basically every biohack under the sun to help with this, but I really don't think GABAergic noots are going to do much for me now. I really don't have that much anxiety these days, which is very unlike how I used to be. I just feel very asocial and anhedonic, like I don't feel like doing anything. I think my GABA-B system may have mostly recovered but my opioid system is still messed up, which is why my anhedonia is so bad. I think my kappa opioid system was highly upregulated due to the week of recklessly dosing f-phenibut and all the chronic intense stress that follow it.

 

Homotaurine, a gaba b antagonist seems like it helps my anhedonia a bit after the gaba b antagonism action wears off (the idea is to upregulate my receptors) but it's hard to tell.

 

So I am trying salvia, hesperidin, and boosting serotonin to fix my kappa opioid system. For the last approach, I'm trying microdosing psychedelics, which seems to help so far, and will probably try a MAO-A inhibitor, probably harmine from syrian rue/b caapi tho I'm looking into methylene blue and other MAO-A Is as well rn.


Edited by jacobjerondin, 19 May 2019 - 07:36 AM.


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#6 jacobjerondin

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 03:01 AM

I got some great relief for around a week and a half to two weeks after microdosing 4-aco-dmt which is basically legal shrooms and smoking some plain leaf salvia. Unfortunately those effects seem to have faded since I used phenibut a couple times last week for some big social events I had (dumb I know).

 

I'm going to try combining those two again soon to see if the effects will be replicate. I'm also going to start taking homotaurine regularly and will get some bacopa as well once I can afford it to upregulate GABA B.

 

Would love to hear any other suggestions for things I should try, if anyone has any. I'm stuck in a deep hope with those anhedonia and really need to get out asap.







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