10 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

i know a few of you guys are pretty serious about heavy exercise... what do you guys do as far as recovery?

i usually follow my lifting with 3g glutamin + 20g whey, and a full meal an hour later... and follow my cardio with 3g glutamin, and a full meal an hour later... and that seems to work ok, but theres still a residual soreness thats pretty much always there in one set of muscles or another. i would imagine i could take some sort of anti inflamitory(ive heard astaxanthin works well for this), but im not sure if inhibiting the inflamation would inhibit the growth of the muscles?

i also tried HIIT for the 1st time yesterday, and it just destroyed me. i usually feel great after exercise, even after heavy lifting... but with HIIT i was tired, worn out and crabby for the rest of the day.

discuss [glasses]

[scottl]

i know a few of you guys are pretty serious about heavy exercise... what do you guys do as far as recovery?

i usually follow my lifting with 3g glutamin + 20g whey, and a full meal an hour later... and follow my cardio with 3g glutamin, and a full meal an hour later... and that seems to work ok, but theres still a residual soreness thats pretty much always there in one set of muscles or another. i would imagine i could take some sort of anti inflamitory(ive heard astaxanthin works well for this), but im not sure if inhibiting the inflamation would inhibit the growth of the muscles?

i also tried HIIT for the 1st time yesterday, and it just destroyed me. i usually feel great after exercise, even after heavy lifting... but with HIIT i was tired, worn out and crabby for the rest of the day.

discuss  [glasses]

"im not sure if inhibiting the inflamation would inhibit the growth of the muscles?"

Yes it would as far as I know.


" also tried HIIT for the 1st time yesterday"

I'm assuming you mean HIT as in MIke Menzer AKA one set to failure AKA DUke's preference. (HIIT usually means high intesnity interval cardio). All I'll say is that many things work. You can find arguments on this going back decades and I do not have the knowledge or experience to adequetly discuss this. You can find discussions on t-nation.com. mind and muscle, etc.

Here read this:

Should you be beat up after training?
http://www.mindandmu...showtopic=23243

[ajnast4r]

no, i meant high intensity interval training lol but thanks [thumb]

[scottl]

ohhh might try citruilline.

I assumed the other since I didn't know HIIT kicked one's rear for that long.

[Shepard]

HIIT, done correctly, is absolutely brutal...much worse than HIT training (not from a recovery standpoint as much as during the exercise), atleast for me. My lungs kind of suck, though.

You're probably going to have to use more glutamine to make a significant difference.

The biggest difference for me is using BCAAs around my exercise. I did the whole warm-up/cool-down/stretching thing and never really noticed much. The foam roller thing seems to help a lot of people.

[kenj]

OT: Ajnast4r (and others), do you at (what?) times notice the "runner's high" when you run?

I believe I can get a "fake?" "runner's high" when using music on my runs.
The thing is, the auditory stimulation should be saved until probably 60% through the 35 mins run - and it hits me GOOOD. [lol]
This makes all the difference.

[ajnast4r]

OT: Ajnast4r (and others), do you at (what?) times notice the "runner's high" when you run?

I believe I can get a "fake?" "runner's high" when using music on my runs.
The thing is, the auditory stimulation should be saved until probably 60% through the 35 mins run - and it hits me GOOOD.  [lol] 
This makes all the difference.

i never notice it till i actually stop running... and oddly enough i never get it from a bike, only from an actual run.

i actually notice NO runners high after HIIT... only the distinct sensation of 'holy shit im gonna die'

[zoolander]

Recent reasearch discussing the timing of protein intake

Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.

Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. ktipton@utmb.edu

The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

Publication Types:

    * Clinical Trial


PMID: 11440894 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

If you wish to read the full paper you can do so here.

Here are some great articles (in PDF) put out by Gatorade Sports Science Institute (GSSI) that may help

Speeding recovery from exercise

Dieary proteins, amino acid supplements and recovery from exercise

Hope the above information helps

[kenj]

i never notice it till i actually stop running

I believe it's during the run.

Zoolander, thanks for the links.

[zoolander]

Just from my own personal experiance, the exercise-induced beta-endorphin release usually kicks in at around 20 minutes.

I can't get a hold of this paper unfortunately but here is the abstract

Beta-endorphin response to exercise. An update.

Goldfarb AH, Jamurtas AZ.

Exercise and Sport Science Department, University of North Carolina-Greensboro, USA. goldfarb@iris.uncg.edu

beta-Endorphin, a 31-amino-acid peptide, is primarily synthesised in the anterior pituitary gland and cleaved from pro-opiomelanocortin, its larger precursor molecule. beta-Endorphin can be released into the circulation from the pituitary gland or can project into areas of the brain through nerve fibres. Exercise of sufficient intensity and duration has been demonstrated to increase circulating beta-endorphin levels. Previous reviews have presented the background of opioids and exercise and discussed the changes in beta-endorphin levels in response to aerobic and anaerobic exercise. The present review is to update the response of beta-endorphin to exercise. This review suggests that exercise-induced beta-endorphin alterations are related to type of exercise and special populations tested, and may differ in individuals with health problems. Additionally, some of the possible mechanisms which may induce beta-endorphin changes in the circulation include analgesia, lactate or base excess, and metabolic factors. Based on the type of exercise, different mechanisms may be involved in the regulation of beta-endorphin release during exercise.

Publication Types:

    * Review


PMID: 9257407 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

This paper also supports the exercise-induced beta-endorphin release is physiological response to counteract stress

Changes in beta-endorphin levels in response to aerobic and anaerobic exercise.

Schwarz L, Kindermann W.

Department of Sports and Performance Medicine, University of Saarland, Saarbrucken, Federal Republic of Germany.

Exercise-induced increases in the peripheral beta-endorphin concentration are mainly associated both with changes in pain perception and mood state and are possibly of importance in substrate metabolism. A more precise understanding of opioid function during exercise can be achieved by investigating the changes in beta-endorphin concentrations dependent upon intensity and duration of physical exercise and in comparison to other stress hormones. Published studies reveal that incremental graded and short term anaerobic exercise lead to an increase in beta-endorphin levels, the extent correlating with the lactate concentration. During incremental graded exercise beta-endorphin levels increase when the anaerobic threshold has been exceeded or at the point of an overproportionate increase in lactate. In endurance exercise performed at a steady-state between lactate production and elimination, blood beta-endorphin levels do not increase until exercise duration exceeds approximately 1 hour, with the increase being exponential thereafter. beta-Endorphin and ACTH are secreted simultaneously during exercise, followed by a delayed release of cortisol. It is not yet clear whether a relationship exists between the catecholamines and beta-endorphin. These results support a possible role of beta-endorphin in changes of mood state and pain perception during endurance sports. In predominantly anaerobic exercise the behaviour of beta-endorphin depends on the degree of metabolic demand, suggesting an influence of endogenous opioids on anaerobic capacity or acidosis tolerance. Further investigations are necessary to determine the role of beta-endorphin in exercise-mediated physiological and psychological events.

Publication Types:

    * Review


PMID: 1553453 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I have many tattoos and each time I have gone to get a tattoo I get this real high. No doubt, it's a tattoo-induced beta-endorphin release. Interestingly, the closer the tattoo to my head the greater the high.

Anyone here who has tattoos will agree with me when I say that they are addictive.

Kenj, no problemo with the links

[skuldugary]

I was having a really hard time recovering from lifting and running (must be getting old) and so i started doing some research, and i have found that a protein/carbo drink, either during or just after exercise, works wonders for recovery (i also mix in creatine).

these guys have a phenomenally great recovery drink. i sent in a bunch of questions and got really excellent responses from the directory or research. he obviously knew what he was talking about:

http://www.firstendu...m/ultragen.html

as i understand it, the idea is to take in a simple carbohydrate along with a fast absorption protein (whey). apparently for the first half hour after exercise, if you can get carbos into the system, they will go directly to replenishing the muscles, and not be stored anywhere. and they will transport protein, creatine, etc to the muscles as well.

for weightlifting the ratio of carbo to protein is somewhere between 1:1 and 1:3 and for endurance sports it is 1:3 to 1:5. the best ratio is found through experimenting. you want to recover but not overload on the stuff, as you are stuffing yourself with simple sugers.

the simplest carbo is dextrose, but a lot of people absorb it so fast that it seems to overload their system, so maltodextrin seems to be the best carbo to take. dextrose seems to make a lot of people bloated and sometimes they gain weight (fat) not a good thing. the latest designer carbo is some sort of corn starch that everyone swears by, but frankly i've heard it doesn't mix well and might have other drawbacks (bloating again).

the best protein is an isolated whey.

if you like to experiment and want to mix your own, this is a great site:

http://www.trueprote...store/index.asp

you can mix your own. here is the mix i've been using:

30% protein
- 15% hydrolyzed whey
- 15% microfiltered

50% carbo
- 15% dextrose
- 35% maltodextrin

20% other stuff
- 10% glutamine peptides
- 5% bcaa amino acids
- 4% taurine
- 1% vitamin C

i would add creatine to that mix, but i add it in separately because i like creatine-magnesium chelate, and that is hard to find. This ends up being cheaper than ultragen, and they use 100% dextrose, which is too much for me.

theoretically you should take antioxidents along with your recovery drink (thus the vit c) but NO FAT.. it stops the transport process because it slows digestion way down. that should mean that you don't take fat soluable antioxidents either (vit e), although i had an interesting exchange with the guy from ultragen about that.

you can dose with up to 65 grams of carbos (!) and theoretically your body will absorb it, but again, you need to experiment. i've been taking like 100 grams of the above mix and it seems to work great. i used to take it after working out, but now i mix it up before the workout, sip about half of it as i work out, then drink the rest in 15 or 20 minutes after. when i run i take about a third before and a third after. the ultragen guys have a pre-workout drink, but it looked to me like a watered down recovery drink and hey, i can do that myself.

hope this isn't too much info, it is something i just researched..

- doug

p.s. if anyone has anything to add, or if anything here looks wrong, let me know!