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New interview with Dr Brenner. Human NR dosing study to be published "in a couple of weeks".

human study dr charles brenner interview

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#1 Fredrik

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 07:08 AM


The Chromadex 100, 300, and 1000 mg NR human study will be published "in a couple of weeks", according to Dr Charles Brenner in this surprisingly chemically geeky interview:

 

https://www.cultivat...TD0M5D0LDL1c6PU


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#2 able

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:55 PM

Yes, good news.  As that podcast was from late April, it implies we should be seeing that published very soon.  Hope we get some good results

 

Around 40:00 he says they found  300 mg does more than 100 mg, and that  max increase is  after 2 weeks and maintains.

 

Does that mean the 1,000 mg doesnt do more than 300 mg?

 

Around 39:00 he says he could open a shop selling retail  NAD+ level testing but it is not really actionable - we couldn't really do anything with it.  That seems strange that he claims it isn't useful info.

 

Isn't  that clearly contradicted a minute earlier when he said 300 mg raises NAD+ more than 100 mg?  If we could test ourselves, couldn't we find the right dosage for each person?  Surely there is huge variation

 

It seems he has the usual attitidue of Doctors/Researchers and really doesn't like us biohackers trying things ourselves and just want to tell us what he thinks we should take.

 

Elsewhere he talks about biohackers taking rapa and at same time taking Leucine when they work against each other.  Sounds like he is probably talking about longecity.


Edited by able, 15 May 2019 - 03:57 PM.

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#3 able

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:05 AM

In  this video, Dr Chris Masterjohn says the best way to measure Niacin levels is the NADH/NADPH level in blood, and mentions a company called HDRI that can test for it.

 

 

 

 

"I think in particular the best thing to do overall is to measure erythrocyte NAD and NADPH"

 

"I don’t love this company, but, sometimes they’re the only one in town that does something, and here it is: HDRI’s NADH/NADPH"

 

"Studies suggest that niacin supplementation can raise that to 6.0, which is very high compared to the average "apparently healthy" person out there."

 

 

 

 

Is that a useful marker to monitor any increase from NR supplementation?  Or is it not relatable to NAD+ levels?

 

Dr Masterjohn says average is 1.0 to 1.5, and that heavy Niacin use can raise that to 6.0.  

 

Is that why Dr Brenner isn't keen on making NAD testing available to the public - because Niacin and other supplements might have similar effect on blood NAD levels at a fraction of the cost?

 

 

 

 

 


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#4 Mind

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:16 AM

In  this video, Dr Chris Masterjohn says the best way to measure Niacin levels is the NADH/NADPH level in blood, and mentions a company called HDRI that can test for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Is that a useful marker to monitor any increase from NR supplementation?  Or is it not relatable to NAD+ levels?

 

Dr Masterjohn says average is 1.0 to 1.5, and that heavy Niacin use can raise that to 6.0.  

 

Is that why Dr Brenner isn't keen on making NAD testing available to the public - because Niacin and other supplements might have similar effect on blood NAD levels at a fraction of the cost?

 

This a great question!! Anyone care to chime in? Is there any data comparing niacin and its close derivatives?


Edited by Mind, 18 May 2019 - 11:19 AM.

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#5 Fredrik

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 10:00 PM

This a great question!! Anyone care to chime in? Is there any data comparing niacin and its close derivatives?

 

Yes, hot off the presses from 1989 and 1998 ^^

 

We have data on nicotinic acid supplementations effect on NAD+ concentration in blood lymphocytes in healthy men and smokers.

 

Nicotinic acid at the dose of 100 mg (given as 33.3 mg x 3 a single bolus in 1898 — see erratum) increased the levels of NAD+ in the blood of two test subjects by 5 times:

 

Attached File  Screenshot 2019-05-19 at 01.07.50.png   36.21KB   0 downloads

 

"Weitberg (4) reported a more pronounced increase in lymphocyte NAD+ after supplementation of two healthy men with nicotinic acid at 100 mg/day (from 4 to 23 pmol cells).

 

In our study, much higher initial levels of NAD+ were measured (31-108 pmol cells), which are comparable to concentrations found by others in lymphocytes (22).

 

The more pronounced increase in lymphocyte NAD+ reported by Weitberg may therefore be ascribed to the relatively low initial niacin status of their subjects.

 

Our data also suggest that the intracellular NAD+ concentration most likely is homeostatically controlled once a critical concentration is reached (our data indicate that this concentration is approx 11-12 X 10~2 pmol/ mg protein).

 

The efficacy of supplemental nicotinic acid to increase cellular NAD+ concentrations appeared to be dependent on the initial niacin status and did not lead to an improved status in all supplemented subjects."

 

Nicotinic acid supplementation: effects on niacin status, cytogenetic damage, and poly(ADP-ribosylation) in lymphocytes of smokers.

https://sci-hub.tw/h.../pubmed/9919621

 

Effect of nicotinic acid supplementation in vivo on oxygen radical-induced genetic damage in human lymphocytes.

https://sci-hub.tw/h.../pubmed/2761560


Edited by Michael, 15 June 2019 - 03:14 AM.

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#6 Fredrik

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 11:42 AM

ERRATUM:

 

In my last post I wrote that they gave the 100 mg of nicotinic acid as "33.3 mg x 3" in the 1989 study, but it just says 100 mg in the method section. It was the more recent 1998 study that they divided the daily 100 mg in three equal doses to lessen flushing in the nicotinic acid naive test subjects.



#7 able

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 09:26 PM

The 1988 study with 2 subjects showed 500% increase in NAD+ after 8 weeks.  It seems high, but it was noted both had very low NAD+ levels to start.

 

The 1998 study found approx 30% increase in NAD+ with 100 mg Niacin per day for 8 weeks.  But they noted there was a lot of variation, with some that had high NAD+ levels to start show no increase.

 

30% increase may not sound as much as the 40% average in the Elysium researc, but considering the average age was only 28, it seems impressive to me.

 

Maybe  that answers the question of why Dr Brenner/Chromadex isn't following through on their plans to introduce retail NAD+ testing.

 

I still believe NR does some things that Niacin does not, but they certainly don't want increased blood NAD+ to be used as a measure of effectiveness.


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#8 bluemoon

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:02 PM

Yes, good news.  As that podcast was from late April, it implies we should be seeing that published very soon.  Hope we get some good results 

 

Then again, Brenner said on a podcast in January that the Chromadex study would be published "soon," and it is the middle of May. I'm not optimistic that much benefit will be shown at 300 mg of NR a day, as the Elysium study didn't show much at 250 mg of NR with 50 mg of pterostilbine, but I think 1,000 mg will. Brenner emailed someone last year that he takes 500 mg of NR a day and my guess is that over time this will be what most people take. That will cost $800 to $900 a year rather than the current $450 a year for 300 mg a day.


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