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how many supplements or drugs do you take a day?

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#1 farshad

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:04 PM


Curious to how much the people of longecity use. I know you guys are really into improving your body in every shape and form so I thought it would be an intresting question because I can't seem to find this topic anywhere, maybe I just suck at searching. I was once watching a video I forgot which one but there was a guy taking over 50+ supplements... that is crazy.. And I know the second smartest Rick Rosner takes like 38 supplements + drugs. And perhaps you wanna add which ones and why you take them.


Edited by farshad, 07 June 2019 - 04:06 PM.


#2 Automail

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:43 PM

7+ supplements, depends on if I feel like improving my sleep hygiene for the night. Many of which I consume just to deplete them, since the compounds hardly do anything for me and because already purchased them.

#3 pamojja

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 12:39 PM

I was once watching a video I forgot which one but there was a guy taking over 50+ supplements... that is crazy..

 

With this preconception probably not many with more than 50 supplements will bother to answer..

 

But just think: our ancestors before agriculture consumed about 200 different natural foods throughout the year, some traditional diets still up to 100. Each again with up to a hundred phyto-chemicals, most not even defined yet. Which would be basically almost impossible or affordable these days in the west.

 

Also by not further differentiating supplements from drugs - synthetic compound we are evolutionary not matched to metabolize - isn't really meaningful. I would be very wary of drugs, but not about natural phyto-chemicals humans always have consumed in the hundreds, until now.

 

Most subside on even less than 20 different foods. Accordingly poly-pharmacy, as practiced by most elderly these day without hope on remission, is rather the rule these days.

 

In my case I became only aware of these issues with multiple mercilessly progressing chronic diseases, and complete helplessness by conventional medicine, other then risky interventions. With nothing more to loose I did supplement about 36 g of vitamins, 9 g of minerals, 13 g of fatty-acids, 37 g of amino-acids, 21 g of plant-extracts, including rarefied phyto-nutrients - powdered plants and spices not counted - therefore 116 g of supplements in average each day for the last 10 years. And I do eat 80 different foods throughout a whole year too.

 

All doses adjusted by regular blood-work. And with such extraordinary consistent 'crazy' effort, remission from non-reversible diseases has become possible.

 

 

And perhaps you wanna add which ones and why you take them.

 

Except drugs, almost all of them. Simulating the synergistic effect a varied diet had on our ancestors-health, but at pharmacological doses apparently necessary for remission of chronic diseases in my case.


Edited by pamojja, 08 June 2019 - 12:47 PM.

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#4 Oakman

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 06:40 PM

Ha! That was a fun counting exercise. First, NO prescription drugs. Then, if you count each supp separately as some complex supps have 6-10 in a single capsule, somewhere around 40+ daily (no multi-vitamins).  Plus on exercise days (3-5 days/wk) another 15ish. 

 

 

Quote

 

And perhaps you wanna add which ones and why you take them.

 

1) I agree with pamojja's reasoning, he has a good way to express why supps should be useful in the modern world. 

 

2) Supps I take are researched to potentially offer positive effects and/or compensate for old people's (I'm old :)) lacks/deficits, areas such as strength, coordination, sports endurance, digestion, brain/nerves (esp vagus nerve), heart, weight, energy production and regulation, and eye and skin health to name things that come to mind.

 

3) I try consume a healthy diet, but everyone has their own reality to deal with. Supps can fill in the potholes in nutrition.

 

4) Call me crazy, but I simply enjoy the challenge/excitement of learning topics in biochemistry, biology, and everything that makes us tick, and how to keep our bodies ticking away longer. Learning about different supps combines that all together. It's also brain exercise.


Edited by Oakman, 08 June 2019 - 06:40 PM.

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#5 Keizo

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:13 PM

every day (with some exceptions)

methylphenidate

glycine

(would be taking D3 every day if I wasn't lazy, I take that once a week instead about 7x5000 IU in one go)

(would be taking L. Reuteri from biogaia gastrus every day if I wasn't lazy)

 

Amount of supplements taken per day correspond with lack of mean efficacy of supplements, the more supplements you take the more useless each one of them likely is, that's my theory. 

Reason 1 being if you get the effect you want and it's an effect that is sort of obvious and easy to measure then you wouldn't be adding stuff since you already reached the goal and was so impressed by some substance that you figure it unlikely anything else would add anything, reason 2. there probably aren't thousands of supplements that are very effective in giving obvious benefit. reason 3. most supplements probably suck  I'd say my stack is pretty high effectiveness, on average.


Edited by Keizo, 10 July 2019 - 12:17 PM.

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#6 Mind

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 05:43 PM

About 10 per day.



#7 pamojja

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 05:45 AM

Amount of supplements taken per day correspond with lack of mean efficacy of supplements, the more supplements you take the more useless each one of them likely is, that's my theory.

 
One concept so often overlooked with supplementation, and particular here at longecity in questions related to efficacy, interactions and side-effects of supplements every day, is bio-chemical individuality. A basic concept already very well described by Linus Pauling on page 85 of his 1986 book 'How to Live Longer and Feel Better'. In short:

 

Everyone has different genetic preconditioning, different toxic exposures, different medical history and conditions, different environmental factors and differing metabolism in respect to all of these.

 

Therefore everyone will react differently to supplements! To take any personal experience with supplements to mean, it would apply to anyone else, is grossly simplistic. Everyone will have different results with different doses, and some few don't need any. We all know someone who ate, drunk and smoke everything bad for their health, without supplementation, and lived up to old age without many health difficulties. That's on the other side of the spectrum. On this side with me, high dose comprehensive and consistent supplementation became a life-safer at middle age, where chronic condition started to kill me.

 

Your theory addapted to me would change to:

 

Amount of supplements taken per day corresponds with efficacy of supplements. The more supplements and the longer I take, the more usefull each one of them become in their synergistic effect - but in my case only!

 

That's not a theory, but my experience. Not neccessarily replicable by any one else for the reason outlined. If you're not about to die, no amount of supplements or life-style changes would ever save you, obviously.  :sleep:

 


Edited by pamojja, 11 July 2019 - 06:04 AM.

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#8 Keizo

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 06:56 AM

   :sleep:

"People are different" and stuff like that is at most a way of saying "I don't know" which is fine, but it doesn't necessarily favor any particular argument or stance.  I'm sure that is correct, but I also believe that there are a few things that are much more likely to have some effect for various people who might have vaguely similar problems (or even very dis-similar problems). If I take your re-write very seriously then I would assume that you are supplementing with saw-dust and plastic pellets (literally), and maybe can I recommend some cotton wool for the gut micro-biome.

 

Another reason I don't think most supplements are useful for much anything is because the more you take the harder it is to know what is doing what and so there's the possibility the benefits are actually coming from a very few things rather than many. Humans are AFAIK only good at interpreting certain types of changes and those that happen during certain time windows. Again if someone is eating cotton wool and beach sand and think that makes their regime more effective then I'd probably assume they were making some pretty significant idea-crafting rather than simply relying on experience or the most simple answer to why they got benefits.

 

I'm not saying a big supplement regime couldn't possibly synergize and create great effects --  but I don't find it likely to happen very often (and e.g. if it's something that could work if taken for a long time then it's just really hard for people to know). Yeah sure if one is sick then there's more possibility for improvement and one might notice effects that would be too insignificant in a healthier person.  But it also means random fluctuations in health, or due to one or a a few supplements or medications, could lead one to believe that something not causing the effect was causing it, because there's more fluctuation and more tendency to use supplements and thus more reason to believe something is doing something.

 

And healthier people might indeed respond well to certain supplements, but it might be either things that deal with general human problems (like vitamin d deficiency, or magnesium deficiency and their corresponding symptoms (which could be rather wide)) or things they have a particular interest in changing something (e.g. make themselves able to study for 18 hours a day and feel fine doing so, which is a rather peculiar choice) which might require extremely strong chemical compounds to see any effect on. Some of these strong chemical agents are also things that you don't necessarily want or need to take every day (like I take a bunch of stuff sporadically but there's no reason to take it every day, in fact it might be dangerous (or at the very least I rather trust someone with a phd than myself when they say it should be used in cycles) ---- Cerebrolysin (anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, stress tolerance, general brain health/function), Mildronate (blood flow, stress management, motivation), and even more infrequent cycle of some purported nootropic or brain-health related thing just as experimentation or as a long-term health thing).


Edited by Keizo, 11 July 2019 - 07:02 AM.


#9 pamojja

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:58 PM

Everyone has different genetic preconditioning, different toxic exposures, different medical history and conditions, different environmental factors and differing metabolism in respect to all of These.

 

I'm sure that is correct, but I also believe that there are a few things that are much more likely to have some effect for various people who might have vaguely similar problems (or even very dis-similar problems).

 

Keizo, with all respect, all that very verbose at times silly counterarguments - and at the same time agreement - I'm really baffled about you having any definite opinion not informed by momentary randomness.

 

 (would be taking L. Reuteri from biogaia gastrus every day if I wasn't lazy)

 

If one is already to lazy for a fourth supplement, then any comprehensive supplementation is out of question already. And your opinios confounded by rationalizing such lazyness. Not experience.

 

I'd say my stack is pretty high effectiveness, on average.

 

You don't give that impression with your incoherent mere believes without any experience, expressed in your post.

 

Some of these strong chemical agents are also things that you don't necessarily want or need to take every day (like I take a bunch of stuff sporadically but there's no reason to take it every day, in fact it might be dangerous (or at the very least I rather trust someone with a phd than myself when they say it should be used in cycles) ---- Cerebrolysin (anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, stress tolerance, general brain health/function), Mildronate (blood flow, stress management, motivation), and even more infrequent cycle of some purported nootropic or brain-health related thing just as experimentation or as a long-term health thing).

 

Without any of these conditions, why on earth your stack would help anything? - beside an inacceptable risk-benefits ratio to me. Buyers beware.


Edited by pamojja, 11 July 2019 - 01:00 PM.

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#10 Keizo

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 04:29 AM

 

Without any of these conditions, why on earth your stack would help anything? - beside an inacceptable risk-benefits ratio to me. Buyers beware.

Without stress, depression, or anxiety, etc? Those are rather common problems. If you think anything I'm taking is dangerous as is I'd certainly like to know about it. 

 

With very effective substances one can afford to be much more careful. Cerebrolysin is something that has been studied but not how it works if you take it every day indefinitely (and for lots of substances there's no data on how it works if taken for very long periods every day) so that's basically the basis of my "in fact might be dangerous [if you take it every day~]" statement, side-effect profile rather mild in the studies however, and the way it works there's likely long-term effects without taking it too often. 

 

And yeah the sky being being blue or people being different doesn't contradict most any statement anyone could ever make. Yeah I do still think some supplements on average are more effective than others, even if the sky is blue, and even if some exotic (or whatever) combination of stuff might also be very effective for some particular thing or particular person.


Edited by Keizo, 12 July 2019 - 04:36 AM.


#11 pamojja

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 10:00 AM

Without stress, depression, or anxiety, etc? Those are rather common problems.

 

No depression or anxiety. Of course, with inner work I did go through phases of intense sadness and fears too, but that's intentional to learn how to become intimate with such emotions, let them resolve and move on. Stress at my working place 2 years before my diagnosis (PAD) I long considered a strong contributing factor to it, and did the most obvious to overcome: quit that job. In retrospect and after having learned a lot more about human health and with all the infections at that time (myopericarditis, schistosomiasis, treated root canal) it could well be the other way round: the infections might have badly affected the autonomic nervous system, put my in sympathetic overdrive and vulnerable to any stress to begin with.

 

Episodes of grieving, overwhelm and fear is what it means to be alive. And before the advent of anti-depressants and anti-psychotics, depressions or even a part of shizophrenias (about half experienced remission naturally without medications) weren't known in their today usually 100% chronified forms.

 

If you think anything I'm taking is dangerous as is I'd certainly like to know about it. 

 

I only really researched my own prescriptions: statin and aspirin very well. Both have very well been tested long-term (which usually means just 5 years) and both considered by most physician as completely safe to take till your death-bed. However, on my closer look of their risk-benefit ratio, I got an opposite impression, out of question and refused both of them.

 

Since then having intelligently trialed most supplements and never having experienced any side-effects, compared to petrochemicals (a baby-aspirin for example gives me immediate bloody stools), I came to the conclusion: even commonly considered harmless ones are in a completely different league in their potential harm. And on the metabolic side, totally logical as written already up in my first post to this thread: Supplements are made of natural compounds the body is used to metabolize already since millions of years (if one doesn't confuse nutritional supplements with known natural poisons), while with petrochemicals this could only be said in an other millions of years.

 

 

PS: through joining PhoenixRising forum because of getting ME/CFS symptoms myself, I learnt that this group does have such strong sensitivities, that any medication, food, light, sound, movement, or also supplements can backfire badly. But that's for obvious different reasons most of us don't have.

 

 

PSS: 'intelligently trialed' means don't go by internet reports of side-effects, interactions, effects, etc. But always start with the lowest possible dose of any new supplements (even if that means taking only a part of a capsule or tablets for the first few days) then increase gradually and slowly over weeks, months and years. Adjust doses again with labs going in the wrong direction or indeed feeling adverse effects or bad interaction at particular doses.

 

In my case I didn't feel anything at first from most supplements, after months and years I observed blood-work moving in the right direction, and after many years experienced a remission from a walking-disability from a disease considered non-reversible by physicians (the prescriptions intended for me were only for secondary prevention, not cure). Now after 10 years I do feel so much gladness having overcome this monster. But still not from anyone individual nutrient. All nutrients work in concert. The 'take a pill to solve your problem' in most cases equals magic thinking. Of which the placebo-effect of course indeed makes it somewhat effective.


Edited by pamojja, 12 July 2019 - 10:58 AM.


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#12 Olivia Fair

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:35 AM

I take levothyroxine for hypothyroidism which is more of a supplement than it is a medication.
My thyroid is not working as well as it should. Its not producing thyroxine. So I take a daily dose to supplement my body and keep the levels where they should be.
I feel the effect pretty quickly. If I dont take it a couple days I get tired, groggy and depressed. But once I take it I generally feel much better within an hour or so.
Also in my food planner : Biotin, Vitamin D, Iron, Magnesium, Fish oil
I'm pretty sure I don't get enough of these vitamins in the foods I eat.





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