I think it would be better for the community for us to just focus on the future. I think it's safest to buy the purest stuff out there -- and Relentless Pete's prices are reasonable enough where I don't currently see an advantage to purchasing nootropics from anywhere else -- given his current
extensive and
expensive quality control procedures. Some folks don't care as much about "safe" or "IQ lowering" as they do about "cheap," even with an impurity -- so we should not be worried about these individuals.
I would just stick to being as conservative as possible when considering ingesting cheap Chinese stuff that has not been independently tested.
Anyone who feels they might have been poisoned might want to see a physician and request a highly sensitive test for blood levels of heavy metals (ask for tests with limits of detection of below 10 µg per Deciliter for lead) -- and all other critical values while they are at it. I did this, and it was quite reassuring to know I am alright -- especially considering the amount of strange powders I bought from smi2le.biz without ever seeing a COA.
Relentless (Pete), 1fast (Mike), and I all show COAs (on most stuff) -- so we play a fair game -- although we (1fast and I) do not offer independent testing on all of our products (I have not independently tested the DNP Piracetam I sell -- check out the disclaimer on it though --
http://nootropics.ip...-1148158679.jpg ) Mike also sells at least one DNP product (last time I checked) but he openly displays the COA so folks can make educated decisions. To get the best deal sometimes, we have to take a chance -- I guess I am a hypocrite worrying about purity meanwhile not testing my DNP product...
With other nootropic vendors (who do not offer supplier COAs or an HPLC assay, microbiological, and heavy metal assay from an independent lab) you have no idea what you are getting into as the supplement industry is totally unregulated. I would not suggest purchasing imported chemicals from Chinese chemical factories without seeing an independent assay from a reputable US lab -- unless they are from companies whose products can always match their label claim -- such as AOR, Jarrow, Now foods, and a few others -- so if folks read that the COA of the product in question doesn't even have a company name on it they realize they are taking their chances...of course we cannot read COAs of many modern popular retail dietary supplement products -- and I don't know if that is nearly as important considering that most supplements (gingko, ginseng, etc.) are already being independently tested by consumerlab.com. But the "nootropics" are a different and special category considering how few folks consume them on a population basis -- if there are impurities, we would never know about them without independent testing.
Check consumerlab.com for companies that have the best reputation as far as matching their label claims. AOR is not listed at consumerlab.com (I do not think), but AORsupport has thoroughly convinced me that they do not play around with anything but the best (if you would like to see how he convinced me, it's a...long story; here is part of it):
R-la raw material
http://www.imminst.o...-1086033906.jpgR-la finished product:
http://nootropics.ip...-1148158088.jpgAOR's rejected batches of PM (Three tries, and still no good!)
http://www.imminst.o...-1093293047.jpgI think it would fair enough to start by evaluating the supplier Certificates of Analysis on the products in question. If they look anything like the COAs I get from suppliers in China, then we speculate about their purported purity. I have seen several COAs from China that stated about 99% purity that were more like 90-95% (or less) pure in reality. I've read "Steve" claim that he uses a European company for his Piracetam. I don't really believe him, but he could easily show us otherwise by simply showing us a COA.
I don't think that many people actually purchased Unique's product in the first place without seeing a COA in the first place. And after that whole...ordeal...I don't know how many folks will in the future.
It would be also quite impossible for us to test Unique's products and have the results be particularly credible given the lost chain of custody. I trust Scott (I have known him for a couple of years) and zoolander (just met him) --- but I can see already a lot of hysteria if a product comes out low in purity (and judging from the independent assays I have seen, this is highly likely).
Peace.
Edited by nootropikamil, 20 May 2006 - 09:15 PM.