8 replies to this topic

[starr]

I wasn't sure where to place this post (or even if anyone would be interested in my situation here at ImmInst).

Some background info:

I'm a 31 year old female. I've been very serious about nutrition and supplementation for the last 8 years. I looked significantly younger than my age (which I credited to my lifestyle) until somewhat recently. I've been under a considerable amount of stress these past few years and had been sleeping extremely poorly. I think this had a direct effect on my rate of aging but my skin had remained pretty elastic until pretty recently. I started noticing some slight changes in December of '05 but it's the last 2 months which have scared me and the rate that my skin appears to be degrading seems to be picking up steam. I have actually improved my sleeping habits and coping with stress over the last few months, which makes this kind of surprising, since I was expecting any improvement in sleeping habits to translate to overall improvement in health.

Details: when I wake up in the morning every tiny little crease in my bedsheets is imprinted in my skin and it doesn't smooth out until a bit later. Joint areas are getting lined, in the way paper would if repeatedly folded in the same place if kept in a flexed position for too long. Fortunately the creases release when joints are straightened out for awhile. Above my foot where the skin meets the leg are beginning to take on characteristics of sundamaged skin. My facial and neck skin is getting kind of rubbery. It can be stretched out far but still looks kind of smooth. While I'm seeing loss of elasticity almost everywhere at this point, the changes are most apparent to me in my hands and forearms near my hands. Maybe that's because they're always in my direct view. The skin there is thinning out, getting crepy with increased surface texture and veins are more prominent which is clearly a loss of subcutaneous fat. It's much more obvious with movement but at this point they don't look like normal 'old' hands. Hard to explain but I think that's because whatever was lost, was lost recently.

I'm thinking it could be a hormonal thing and I took some blood tests a couple months ago (fasting): Glucose serum 73, Insulin 2.2, Bun 19/Creatinine .6 - Ratio 32 (took the test mid afternoon with no fluids) TSH 1.04 (consuming lots of iodine), IGF-1 205, DHEA 212, Cortisol 7.1, Total Cholesterol 135, HDL 53, LDL 75, Triglycerides 36. Progesterone 2.3, Estriadol 65, Estrone 74, Serum Testosterone 31, Free Testosterone .06 (I think I was slightly past mid cycle, I can't be 100% sure).

Also, even when get a full night's sleep, I usually still feel tired. Forcing myself to exercise can help. I've been going gray really fast over the last 12 months too. Both my parents didn't begin to see gray until their late 30's.

A doctor I've spoken to suggested that I take DHEA, pregnenolone and use topical progesterone. Any opinions on that? I held out until taking newer tests (which included a complete thyroid panel) and talking to my own doctor. I took the second batch of the new tests yesterday (sex hormones), results won't be available for a few more weeks and I won't be able to talk to my doctor until then. In the meantime I'm pretty distressed, I don't believe this is "normal aging" and would appreciate any input.

[FunkOdyssey]

You'd probably want to get a baseline for pregnenolone before you begin supplementation. Your DHEA is definitely low for your age (300-350 would be ideal). That would suggest either adrenal insufficiency/fatigue or premature aging, as you suspect. Restoring DHEA to optimal levels would likely make a big difference in how you feel -- especially in women, with its conversion to testosterone. You seem to have an unusually forward-thinking doctor, and I would follow his recommendations.

[starr]

Hi and thanks for answering. I had also suspected adrenal fatigue. My doctor is forward thinking but that's not the doctor who recommended the supplementation. The recommendation is from a non practicing doctor and was less formally given based on a conversation and some of the numbers from the test above. I won't be talking to my normal doctor until the new test results come in a few weeks. Pregnenolone was tested the other day.

I've heard of women losing hair and experiencing other undesireable side effects with DHEA supplementation so it makes me a little nervous. Also, shouldn't the goal be making my own DHEA in optimal levels? I thought that supplelemtation of hormones can down regulate your own production.

One of the antioxidant formulations I was trying (Dr. Venessa) had 25mgs of DHEA and I took it for a few months and then discontinued. I can't say it made me feel better when I was on it. I stopped taking that and abruptly stopped taking melatonin around the same time which was last November/December. I had been taking melatonin practically nightly for the last 8 years.

[FunkOdyssey]

Dr. Venessa's Ultimate Antioxidant has about 50 different ingredients in a hard tablet form. If you're going to take DHEA orally, you'll have the best luck with micronized DHEA, alone, on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning. I'm willing to bet the difference in bioavailability compared to the Venessa formula would be dramatic.

DHEA has no negative feedback mechanism, so supplementation has no impact on your natural production. ACTH spurs the adrenals to produce both cortisol and DHEA, but only cortisol is involved in the feedback loop.

Also, shouldn't the goal be making my own DHEA in optimal levels?

If you're suffering from adrenal fatigue, then yes, your DHEA production would rise naturally as the adrenals recover, and you would be able to discontinue supplementation. If you're DHEA is low simply because of premature aging, then taking DHEA is something you'll probably have to do indefinitely.

I've heard of women losing hair and experiencing other undesireable side effects with DHEA supplementation so it makes me a little nervous.

That's why testing is important, to determine the correct dosage and avoid overshooting into the supraphysiological range.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 26 May 2006 - 06:49 PM.

[Pablo M]

I would recommend sustained high-dose vitamin C, in the 3-10 gram/day range, to rule out the possibility of collagen insufficiency due to scurvy. Take it in divided doses throughout the day. Bioflavonoids and grape seed extract would be good synergists to add, but definitely get on the vitamin C right away.

[starr]

Hi Pablo. I guess I should have mentioned that I've been on high doses of vitamin C for the majority of 8 years. It seemed to be great for my skin as it was in excellent shape before all this. On average I take 3-8 grams throughout the day and 2-3.5 grams before bed. I used to take calcium ascorbate but now I take multi-mineral ascorbates mostly by Solgar in capsule form. I ocassionally take a similar product by Alacer in tablet form. To mention some of the other supplements I use: Grapeseed extract and pycnogenol, usually once a day or before and after workouts with vitamin C. 100-400 mgs of CoQ10 spread over the day, also 200-500mgs daily of divided doses of R-LA and more recently in combination with r-dihydro-lipoic. Silica and MSM at night. I've recently added Longevinex resveratrol.

[starr]

Dr. Venessa's Ultimate Antioxidant has about 50 different ingredients in a hard tablet form.  If you're going to take DHEA orally, you'll have the best luck with micronized DHEA, alone, on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning.  I'm willing to bet the difference in bioavailability compared to the Venessa formula would be dramatic.

DHEA has no negative feedback mechanism, so supplementation has no impact on your natural production.  ACTH spurs the adrenals to produce both cortisol and DHEA, but only cortisol is involved in the feedback loop.


If you're suffering from adrenal fatigue, then yes, your DHEA production would rise naturally as the adrenals recover, and you would be able to discontinue supplementation.  If you're DHEA is low simply because of premature aging, then taking DHEA is something you'll probably have to do indefinitely.


That's why testing is important, to determine the correct dosage and avoid overshooting into the supraphysiological range.

I'm sure you're right about the bioavailability and I'm not a fan of tablets anyway. I thought all hormones had a feedback mechanism but if that's not the case, obviously there's no harm in supplementation with my current levels.

[xanadu]

starr wrote:

"I stopped taking that (DHEA) and abruptly stopped taking melatonin around the same time which was last November/December. I had been taking melatonin practically nightly for the last 8 years."

Hmmmm, just a hunch but perhaps that ties in with your symptoms over the last few months? I would go back on the DHEA and the melatonin too. I'm not saying that's the answer to it all but you apparently had no skin problems when you were taking them.

[starr]

starr wrote:

"I stopped taking that (DHEA) and abruptly stopped taking melatonin around the same time which was last November/December. I had been taking melatonin practically nightly for the last 8 years."

Hmmmm, just a hunch but perhaps that ties in with your symptoms over the last few months? I would go back on the DHEA and the melatonin too. I'm not saying that's the answer to it all but you apparently had no skin problems when you were taking them.

Hi Xanadu. The DHEA was never really a part of my regular regime. It was just something that was included in an antioxidant formula that I tried out for a few months but wasn't thrilled with in the end. I stopped the melatonin because a test that measures your natural levels required not taking it for a month but I never got around to taking the test until yesterday since it requires taking a sample at specific times and my timing was always off. Then I felt that I should be producing my own anyway. I was starting to see a slight loss of elasticity just as I stopped the melatonin so I would imagine some things were changing before then after all, I had been under prolonged emotional stress and not sleeping much. I think I'll be going back to melatonin regardless of my test results.