14 replies to this topic

[theone999]

Hey y'all, my 1st post here. Well my short term reason to use nootropics is because I have exams. Long term wise, well to boost my cognitive functions really, who doesn't want to that bit more intelligent, that bit better lol. I am using modafinil at the minute, and will continue in the future as a pick me up. Piracetam also sounds useful as it will boost learning and people have described it can have positve effects on playing instruments.

I have already received my Piracetam but havent' used any yet after reading about needing acetylcholine precursors. I have read that choline bitartrate is the worst form. 1st question is, Where can i get the cheapest Alpha GPC?

2ndly, I have also ordered Hydergine. I ordered it a week ago and now not too sure about it anymore since the effects sounds similiar to piracetam and when i eventually get Alpha GPC it will have a synergy with piracetam. So do you guys find taking Hydergine 4.5 FAS useful for combination with Piracetam? Or is it a bit overkill and could do with out.

Lastly, unfortunately, since i cannot return the hydergine and choline bitarate i have bought. So if i come to the conclusion that i do not need it. I will be putting the 2 items up for sale at a cheaper rate and faster shipping to anyone in UK since i live there, so it will be Royal Mail 1-2 days. But i will have to wait to see what you guys say about my 2nd question 1st.

Hope yous can help me out on my nootropic journey lol.

[theone999]

Oh and one more thing, can Centrophenoxine as a subsititute for Alpha GPC at all?

[randyh]

1. don't know about ordering alpha in the UK. in the US it'd be bulknutrition

2. Hydergine will syngergize with the Piracetam. You do not need to get rid of it. Piracetam+choline source+hydergine is like the "classic" nootropic stack from what I've read.

I'd recommend trying them each individually and then slowly combining them. If you like the effect, go with it. You might be one of those people who doesn't need the choline at all or you could be like me who needs multiple sources and lots of them. You also might not respond at all to the piracetam. Try it and see what happens

[randyh]

Oh and one more thing, can Centrophenoxine as a subsititute for Alpha GPC at all?

yes. They both boost yer choline which is what you want to do with the piracetam.

[theone999]

You might be one of those people who doesn't need the choline at all or you could be like me who needs multiple sources and lots of them.

How do you not need any? From what i have read so far, when you take piracetam or racetams they all need choline or acetylcholine to function. Your brain only has a certain amount of choline for everyday life, since piracetam boosts your brain, it will need more choline than at your base level or there is autocannibalisation of cells for their choline content. New as i am to this. That does not sound good.

[theone999]

I've decided that i dont want the Hydergine anymore. I was too hasty in ordering them to rush it for my exams. I only found out it was a fairly potent vasodiator last night. I am young and i run long distance semi-pro. So it would not be the best option for me.

I will be selling Hydergine FAS 4.5mg x 60 for what i bought it for £17 (£17.18 at QHI). I will be asking for £3.00 postage to within the UK. Also i will be throwing in a bottle of Choline 250mg x 100. (£4.88 at QHI) for free.

£20 in all. At QHI you also have a minumum of £33 order and the postage alone costs £11.50 even to the UK.

This for mainly for anyone in the UK. Send me a PM if you're interested or have an offer.

[doug123]

yes. They both boost yer choline which is what you want to do with the piracetam.

Any evidence for this?

[Shepard]

http://www.worldheal...p/237,2044.html

Of course, I don't think they mention the study showing increased acetylcholinesterase activity.

[theone999]

[/quote]Any evidence for this?[/quote]

http://www.theory.or...etam/index.html

The penultimate paragraph.

[doug123]

Those article are (Surprise, surprise!) intended to promote sales and only highlight the bright side. I have also seen "cool" ads where the message conveyed is that one needs a Miller Lite to be able to get all the ladies.

[Shepard]

Yeah, but it does give reference to a couple of studies showing increased choline.

I've never personally felt centrophenoxine to be a powerful cholinergic substance, maybe due to the other affects.

[randyh]

yes. They both boost yer choline which is what you want to do with the piracetam.

Any evidence for this?

Would you like to just go ahead and make your point instead of issuing provocative "questions" to an obvious new guy who's simply repeating what has been said here about 12 million times?

theone99: some people already have enough choline in their diets such that they don't require supplementation. Certain foods (e.g. eggs) are high in choline.

[doug123]

Would you like to just go ahead and make your point instead of issuing provocative "questions" to an obvious new guy who's simply repeating what has been said here about 12 million times?

I like to see where you heard specifically that Hydergine or Piracetam increases choline. Can you show me a few examples? Was this a research finding? I have read a lot about Hydergine, but most of the research was conducted on elderly or demented subjects.

If I typed every single point that crossed my head, I wouldn't have much of a life. Even addressing a couple of points here a day can get distracting.

Whenever folks state something as a matter of fact, I often wonder how they came to accept it as such. I used to come to quick conclusions myself based on inconclusive evidence; but then I got slapped around by a few scientists and now I see everything much more clearly.

[Shepard]

I like to see where you heard specifically that Hydergine or Piracetam increases choline. 

I thought he was saying that centrophenoxine and Alpha-GPC boosted choline, not hyderine or piracetam.

[randyh]

nootropikamil,
Please forgive my tone in the previous post. There was clearly a breakdown in communication. Shepard is right, I was saying that Alpha-GPC or centrophenoxine would boost choline, not piracetam or hydergine, and that boosting choline is something one may want to do while taking piracetam. I can see now that my wording wasn't clear. I thought you were questioning the idea of taking a choline booster with piracetam so it seemed like a loaded question since that's such a well-accepted practice.

-r

edit: these aren't e-mails

Edited by randyh, 07 June 2006 - 03:43 AM.