10 replies to this topic

[kottke]

My grandfather was diagnosed with alzheimers about 2 years ago, and the devil woman he maired about the same time (funny that) just got him into some nutritional products named *Reliv about a month ago. Now i did a fair amount of research on the product and it seems pretty legit, in no way as beneficial as some other mulitvitamin supplements (Ortho Core, LEF Mix), but through lots of research and talking to people that sell it its not that bad. At first i definantly thought it was a pyramid scheme. It aparently works for many people though has a very good reputation and although my gpa has alzeimers hes a very bright man. Id still rather him take something else, but shes a retired nurse and thinks she knows everything and really doesnt know shit. These are the products hes currently taking

http://www.reliv.com...able/US_NOW.pdf
http://www.reliv.com..._FibRestore.pdf
and this one which i think is useless http://www.reliv.com...nergize_LEM.pdf


Anyways she (his wife) was about to order some "Reversage" from them which has apprently helped many people with alzeimers as well. The ingredients look really good http://www.reliv.com...S_ReversAge.pdf but theres no documentation on the quality and form of the nutrients. It is ;however, expensive.To get on with it, it seems that it contains a small amount of ALCAR (or it could be large, doesnt really say) but with a synthetic ALA. Im sure many people know the research on this subject through the forums that synthetic ALA does not protect against the free radicals that ALCAR produces in the Kreb cycle. R-ALA does, theoreticaly. So i was going to order him some R-ALA as an adjunct. His crazy new wife finally gave me the option to interevene after convincing her of my knowledge on health and the fact that its my grandfather and i care for him.

So i came up with a list i thought would be apropriate for his situation

Alpha-GPC (AOR)
R-ALA (R-PLUS®)
Fish Oil (LEF)
Vinpocetine (AOR)
5mg of Deprenyl a week (just an estimate)
Blueberry Extract (LEF)
DHEA (LEF)
Galantamine if i can get him off the aricept. This is a complex situation
Resveratrol (AOR)
Theralac if he'll take it
Taurine or Magnesium Taurate for possible overexcitation

Its either these supplements or the Reversage with some R-ALA and whatever else needed

Suggestions would be awesome

[Shepard]

I'm reluctant to make suggestions in this situation, but a question:

Has his physician not put him on anything?

I'm not terribly impressed by any of those products, though.

[kottke]

Yea they put him on aricept which is a minor acetylcholine inhibitor. From what i read it has almost no interactions. He has seemed to be doing better since hes been taking the Reliv NOW, but thats from not taking a daily vitamin at all. Hes a very intellegint man and is in great shape (other then his memory) and used to be a proffessor, so i take what he says pretty seriously even though he does have a minor form of alziemers (which becomes clear after talking to him for 30mins or so).

I am extremely skeptical of products and the only reason i havent tottaly disregarded reliv is because of the people ive talked to that have been at my gpas house and at liberty univeristy (mainly older people) Alot of it is mainly hype, but im really good at reading people and it seems to be making a difference. Still though from reading the ingredients i think there is far better multivitamins he could take. Its just this woman he married man, she thinks she knows what shes doing, but shes really just tottaly nuts. So i dont think i can stop them from taking the reliv NOW, but i can add on some supplements.

And dude you can throw whatever suggestions you want man. Im a very rational person and im not going to just buy something because you suggest it. Id just like some personal opinions on the matter.

How does that Reversage look to you shepard ? hes 75 by the way.

[FunkOdyssey]

If I'm reading the post correctly, his grandfather's physician prescribed Aricept. I would not attempt to get him off that if I were you. In a situation like this, you definitely want to run your ideas by the physician and get his approval first, rather than assume responsibility for your grandfather's care yourself. If his physician agrees, the supplements you listed are relatively harmless and may be of some help.

Curcumin would also fall into the "harmless and might help" category -- it has demonstrated the ability to remove amyloid plaques from the brain, at least in rat studies. LEF summarized what is known about this aspect of Curcumin pretty well here:
http://www.lef.org/m...curcumin_01.htm

LEF claims that Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate has been shown in a double-blind clinical trial to provide substantial benefit to patients suffering from mild Alzheimer's vs. placebo, although I wasn't able to find the abstract during a brief search.

They have a good-looking protocol for Alzheimer's that you should read as well:
http://www.lef.org/p..._disease_01.htm

[kottke]

Thanks Funk. I had thought of Curcumin and Ashwagandha as well. Alot of the things i listed look like there on the LEF list so i guess im doing something right [lol] I wouldnt dream of getting him to stop aricept without talking to the doc first, theres no way i could take that responsiblilty. The problem is his Dr. does not have an opened mind at all. It actually used to be my Doc before i switched, because he didnt listen to anything i said, he was very cocky, hes fat (so that shows how much he knows about health), he tottaly disregards anything the FDA doesnt aprove, he just sucks. Theres also no cooperation on my grandfathers side because his new wife controls everything he does. So luckily theres not much interaction with ARICEPT, but i have to double check if hes on anything else.

Is there anything that could be added or taken away from the list i had made? Screw Reversage, I'm going to make sure he gets some quality supps. Hes gotta spend all that money somewhere.

(i apologize if this is all jarbled i got my tonsils removed yesterday and im on some major percocet)

[doug123]

[quote name='kottke']My grandfather was diagnosed with alzheimers about 2 years ago, and the devil woman he  maired about the same time (funny that) just got him into some nutritional products named *Reliv about a month ago. Now i did a fair amount of research on the product and it seems pretty legit, in no way as beneficial as some other mulitvitamin supplements (Ortho Core, LEF Mix), but through lots of research and talking to people that sell it its not that bad. At first i definantly thought it was a pyramid scheme. It aparently works for many people though has a very good reputation and although my gpa has alzeimers hes a very bright man. Id still rather him take something else, but shes a retired nurse and thinks she knows everything and really doesnt know shit. These are the products hes currently taking

http://www.reliv.com...able/US_NOW.pdf
http://www.reliv.com..._FibRestore.pdf
and this one which i think is useless http://www.reliv.com...nergize_LEM.pdf


Anyways she (his wife) was about to order some "Reversage" from them which has apprently helped many people with alzeimers as well. The ingredients look really good http://www.reliv.com...S_ReversAge.pdf but theres no documentation on the quality and form of the nutrients. It is ;however, expensive.To get on with it, it seems that it contains a small amount of ALCAR (or it could be large, doesnt really say) but with a synthetic ALA. Im sure many people know the research on this subject through the forums that synthetic ALA does not protect against the free radicals that ALCAR produces in the Kreb cycle. R-ALA does, theoreticaly. So i was going to order him some R-ALA as an adjunct. His crazy new wife finally gave me the option to interevene after convincing her of my knowledge on health and the fact that its my grandfather and i care for him.

So i came up with a list i thought  would be apropriate for his situation

Alpha-GPC (AOR)
R-ALA (R-PLUS®)
Fish Oil (LEF)
Vinpocetine (AOR)
5mg of Deprenyl a week (just an estimate)
Blueberry Extract (LEF)
DHEA (LEF)
Galantamine if i can get him off the aricept. This is a complex situation
Resveratrol (AOR)
Theralac if he'll take it
Taurine or Magnesium Taurate for possible overexcitation

Its either these supplements or the Reversage with some R-ALA and whatever else needed

Suggestions would be awesome[/quote]

Unfortunately, once folks are diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, there is not too much else we can do. We can't exactly revert a brain that has been degraded by beta-amyloid plaques back to normal, at least yet. We can attempt to treat some of the effects of the disease, but we cannot really stop or slow the progression of the disease itself -- at least with the tools we have on hand in modern medicine.

Donepezil HCL (Aricept) has been tested in healty pilots and the drugged group were significantly better at processing complex tasks than the placebo group. Aricept has a significant clinical effect and appears to be safe and has few reported side effects. It also appears to be effective at treating Alzheimer's.

[quote name='http://www.update-software.com/ABSTRACTS/AB004395.htm']Main results: Two large-scale, randomized, double-blind, parallel-group controlled trials were identified for inclusion. A total of 1219 people with mild to moderate cognitive decline due to probable or possible vascular dementia (according to the NINCDS/AIREN criteria and the Hachinski Ischemia Scale) were recruited. Donepezil, at doses of 5 or 10 mg a day was compared with placebo for 24 weeks. For each outcome measure, mean change from baseline at weeks 12 and 24, using a last observation carried forward analysis, was calculated.Cognitive function:The donepezil groups showed statistically significantly better performance than the placebo groups on the cognitive subscale of the Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale (ADAS-Cog) at 12 and 24 weeks.The donepezil groups produced statistically significantly better scores than the placebo groups on the Mini-Mental State Examination (MMSE) at 12 and 24 weeks. Global function:The sum of the boxes of the Clinical Dementia Rating (CDR-SB) showed at 24 weeks a statistically significant benefit of 10 mg donepezil daily over both placebo and a 5 mg daily dosage.The Clinician's Interview-Based Impression of Change-plus version (CIBIC-plus) showed improved global function of participants taking 5 mg of donepezil daily compared with the placebo group but this was not seen in the higher dose group. Activities of daily living and social behaviour: On the Instrumental Activity of Daily Living (IADL) scale, there was no statistically significant difference between the groups taking donepezil 5 mg per day donepezil and placebo, but the group taking 10 mg of donepezil a day showed benefit compared with placeboThere were statistically significant benefit for donepezil at either dosage compared with placebo on the Alzheimer's Disease Functional Assessment and Change Scale (ADFACS).Tolerability and adverse effects:Broad range of adverse events were reported in the studies and data confirmed that donepezil was well tolerated, and most of the side effects were transient and were resolved by stopping the medication. Some of these events, especially nausea, diarrhoea, anorexia and cramp appeared more frequently on the 10 mg dose where there was a statistically significant difference compared with placebo.Drop-out: The drop-out rate was similar between the groups, 84.2% (330) patients completed the studies. The withdrawal rate was low and due mainly to side effects.

Authors' conclusions: Evidence from the available studies support the benefit of donepezil in improving cognition function, clinical global impression and activities of daily living in patients with probable or possible mild to moderate vascular cognitive impairment after 6 months treatment. Extending studies for longer periods would be desirable to establish the efficacy of donepezil in patients with advanced stages of cognitive impairment. Moreover, there is an urgent need for establishing specific clinical diagnostic criteria and rating scales for vascular cognitive impairment.[/quote]

[opales]

Did you see this?

http://www.imminst.o...&f=6&t=10694&s=

Omegas and choline can be obtained from diet, probably worth the shot.

[kottke]

I agree that there is no cure for Alzeimers, but the supplements i suggested should almost certainly help his cognition and quality of life. Supplementing Choline;particulalry, can do amazing things to your cholinerginic system and even reverse some damage. I think you can certainly slow the progression even if minimal, not stop it though.

[kottke]

Oh man, thats awesome opales. Doesnt that mean those 3 could also repair damage done to a normal brain? Thats quite interesting

[doug123]

If you want to have Grandpa take something that has the most science behind it, I would suggest:

At least 600 mg elemental r-alpha-lipoic acid through GeroNova RLAMCT25 or KRALA. That would be 800mg RLAMCT25® (25% active R-lipoic acid) three times a day or 500mg KRALA® (40% R-lipoic acid) three times a day.

At least 2.4 grams ALCAR HCL in two divided doses.

Both on an empty stomach.

See this to understand why:

http://www.imminst.o...t=0

[kottke]

Im down with the extended release RLA im just a little iffy on the ALCAR and i dont know why exactly. I think i feel that somehow the RLA will not inhibit ALCARs free radical aspect and could accelerate his problem. It probably wont....but i did find out a first step aproach with the following products

EPA Bright- 6 or more a day
R (+) SR - 1-3 caps a day depending on his energy level
AGPC and CDP forms of choline alternating - probaly 4 or more a day

With the recent studies on Omega 3, Uridine, and Choline repairing memebranes to a great extent i think using CDP to compensate for the uridine (and of course the choline) would work better and alternating GPC for its possible different benefits.

Ill probbaly eventually add Vinpocetine and maybe even ALCAR.

Look tasty?