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Any sound rebuttals out there of Dr Esselstyn's diet plan?

cad heart disease

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#1 TheFountain

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 04:15 AM


In watching the following video, the Doctor makes a very strong point regarding endothelial cells and the lining of the arteries. 

 

What I am wondering is, is there any sound rebuttal to his schematic approach toward diet which he convincingly demonstrates can reverse or prevent CAD?

 

I have never seen anyone Paleo touch him in any way when it comes to rebutting his evidence based claims. 

 

Please chime in.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=HpQJk-h3IwY



#2 TheFountain

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 05:42 PM

Yikes, I guess not. 



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#3 Juangalt

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 08:33 PM

Yikes, I guess not. 

 

Maasai and Inuit (pre-western hybrid diet) seem to avoid CVD. It seems to be the high carb/ high fat diet that most contributes to CVD. High fat low carb and Low fat high carb seem to avoid it. Esselstyn isn't comparing a keto type diet and his diet; he's comparing his diet to something closer to the Standard American Diet. From a practical standpoint, he's probably right because hardly anyone can stick to an ultra low carb diet. But a Maasai or Inuit might say the introduction of carbs is the problem.
 


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#4 Mind

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:05 PM

People who eat the traditional Mediterranean diet - a diet very high in the consumption of nuts and olive oil - are some of the longest lived people in the world with the least amount of CVD.

 

The list of studies affirming this fact is vast: https://www.jpost.co...MJ-study-618064

 

He falsely claims that improvements in Finnsh heart disease rates are solely due to dietary changes, when it was really due to less smoking. https://www.knowable...t-health-nation

 

People developed the term "French Paradox" because the traditional French diet was high in fat, particularly lard - yet they had low rates of heart disease. It isn't a paradox. Natural fats are good for health.

 

Dr. Esselstyn says ALL oils are bad. In the video he show a graph of oils which shows most of them have too many omega 6 oils in relation to omega 3 oils. This is well known. Soybean oil, canola oil, etc. are well known to be bad for you. (Notice that he leaves off butter, lard, and coconut oil). Olive oil has a very low ratio which is good.

 

He says avoid caffeine yet large studies show people who drink coffee live longer: https://www.healthli...onger#longevity

 

I could go on and on and on, but the LongeCity crowd has already discussed all of these points for decades.

 

The more significant contributor to many diseases, including heart disease is excess sugar and carb consumption - which he barely mentions.

 

It is well known that vegan and vegetarian diets are very good for health, but they are not the end-all be-all for good health.


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#5 TheFountain

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:23 PM

People who eat the traditional Mediterranean diet - a diet very high in the consumption of nuts and olive oil - are some of the longest lived people in the world with the least amount of CVD.

 

The list of studies affirming this fact is vast: https://www.jpost.co...MJ-study-618064

 

He falsely claims that improvements in Finnsh heart disease rates are solely due to dietary changes, when it was really due to less smoking. https://www.knowable...t-health-nation

 

People developed the term "French Paradox" because the traditional French diet was high in fat, particularly lard - yet they had low rates of heart disease. It isn't a paradox. Natural fats are good for health.

 

Dr. Esselstyn says ALL oils are bad. In the video he show a graph of oils which shows most of them have too many omega 6 oils in relation to omega 3 oils. This is well known. Soybean oil, canola oil, etc. are well known to be bad for you. (Notice that he leaves off butter, lard, and coconut oil). Olive oil has a very low ratio which is good.

 

He says avoid caffeine yet large studies show people who drink coffee live longer: https://www.healthli...onger#longevity

 

I could go on and on and on, but the LongeCity crowd has already discussed all of these points for decades.

 

The more significant contributor to many diseases, including heart disease is excess sugar and carb consumption - which he barely mentions.

 

It is well known that vegan and vegetarian diets are very good for health, but they are not the end-all be-all for good health.

 

Thanks Mind,

 

I remember a lot of the conversations we have had regarding a lot of the points you reiterated above. The problem is, we have discussed this so much that when you look into something that is new (to you at least) and the doctor is claiming that the mediterranean diet (for example) showed an increase in heart disease rather than a reduction, where is he getting his data from? 

 

And, what do you make of his angiographic data showing reversal of occlusion using his dietary approach etc? 

 

Sorry to dredge this subject up again but I honestly never looked into Dr. Esselsyn's findings till now even though I have herd his name multiple times over the years. 


Edited by TheFountain, 20 February 2020 - 11:24 PM.


#6 TheFountain

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:26 PM

Maasai and Inuit (pre-western hybrid diet) seem to avoid CVD. It seems to be the high carb/ high fat diet that most contributes to CVD. High fat low carb and Low fat high carb seem to avoid it. Esselstyn isn't comparing a keto type diet and his diet; he's comparing his diet to something closer to the Standard American Diet. From a practical standpoint, he's probably right because hardly anyone can stick to an ultra low carb diet. But a Maasai or Inuit might say the introduction of carbs is the problem.
 

 

He categorically states that he believes strongly that the mediterranean diet does not reverse heart disease but causes it. Where is he getting his data points from I wonder?


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#7 Mind

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 06:09 PM

His diet advice is fine. People who have a "bad" diet or a SAD diet, will be much healthier going with Esselstyn's advice.

 

He is just extreme in avoiding all fat. There is hardly any research that suggests all fat is bad and should be avoided at all costs. Particularly i regards to olive oil: https://www.longecit...ts-extend-life/


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#8 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 15 September 2020 - 01:58 PM

I've read Esselstyn's book and I've spoken with him on the phone (send him an email and he'll talk to you as well I suspect).  He seems to be getting some results from it, if he's a reliable reporter of his results.

 

However, is he correct as to why he's getting results (plant based diet, no meat, low fat, low carbs, etc.)?

 

In his book he shows before and after pictures of his patients.  Most before pictures are of morbidly obese people. Most of his after pictures honestly look like concentration camp survivors.

 

So it is the particulars of his diet that give him the results, or is it the extreme caloric restriction giving the result?  I think it could easily be the latter.

 

I recall a study years ago (forgive me but I can't locate it at the moment) where they looked at people that had been on a starvation diet.  And they noted some reversal of cardiovascular disease.  It even commented on an apparent reduction in CVD in people that had been starved in a concentration camp setting. Apparently when the body becomes extremely starved for calories it will even start to consume fatty deposits in the arteries. I think this extreme caloric restriction is equally plausible for whatever result Esselstyn is getting as it being the details of exactly what his patients are eating.

 

Again, get his book and look at his patients.  They are clearly on a nearly starvation level diet.  You cut almost all carbs and fat out of a diet and it's damned hard to get adequate calories, especially when all that's left for those on the Esselstyn diet is plant based protein.

 

 


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 15 September 2020 - 02:01 PM.

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#9 aza

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 12:38 PM

Generally speaking, the program seems to get positive effects. But it is impossible to attribute it to veganism.

The study itself didn't have a control group, wasn't randomized, was very small and was riddled with confounding factors.

The group reduced or stopped consuming vegetable oil, trans fats, refined starch, processed meat and sugar.

They lost a good deal of weight, were on medication and possibly exercised.

Really, the study can only really state with confidence that unprocessed food, with drugs and a healthy lifestyle can improve health,

It cant say whether the diet is more/less effective with or without meat.

 

 


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#10 ta5

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 06:42 PM

Here is one critique:

The Incredibly Bad Science Behind Dr. Esselstyn's Plant-based Diet

 



#11 KBAnthis

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:14 PM

You may be interested in my copy paste from another topic I started. I will post below this comment. It ties together why I enjoy cold-pressed oils. It is only my opinion from trial and error of the optimal diet over my life. Cold-pressed oils have greatly improved my life. It is also the absence of cooking oil that improves my life. I have gone about 2 years oil free, consuming raw nuts and seeds for omega 6 and 3. Although I did do some cod liver oil , there was no cooking oils. Except col-pressed coconut oil but I didn't cook in it.

Here is the post. 
Do you currently take Borage Seed Oil or Evening Primrose Oil? I have just recently ordered a bottle of each, both organic, both food grade, and both cold-pressed. The borage seed oil I believe is further refined or filtered and is PA free. I am not sure about the evening primrose oil, if it is further refined, I will e-mail the company to ask. I will update once they e-mail back. I am currently on a diet that is as low in cooked fats as possible. My daily diet consists of raw nuts and seeds (unpasteurized) which I will sprout before blending in a smoothie. Lately I have been doing about a half cup of raw hulled sunflower seeds and 2 tbsp. of flax seeds. I have done other seeds and nuts including: walnuts, almonds, hulled sesame seeds, pumpkin seed, and others. I will also consume Raw Butter, about a tbsp. a day. While I prefer raw butter, store bought pasteurized butter can be substituted just fine. I do not do as well with pasteurized nuts and seeds as they do not nourish me as good and can bog me down after consumption. So many store bought varieties have to be researched through the vendors, and often I resort to online ordering. Though not always as I have found some bulk food stores which carry nuts and seeds unpasteurized. I also do a virgin cod liver oil.  About less than a tbsp. of cold-pressed coconut oil a day. With meats I do mostly organs, and on occasion lean cuts of muscles. I am doing this to promote the highest quality of health and am trying to find the best diet I can make up. I enjoy hot cereals with water and vegetable soups with lentils. With the studies on GLA, with Borage Seed Oil and Evening Primrose oil, I am uncertain if they use cold-pressed oils. This has the potential to change the results and conclusions. From my experience the cold-pressed oils are invaluable, and conventionally produced oils are good as useless. I had some borage seed oil , cold-pressed, filtered and pa free from another country in my fridge that I tried again after stopping it do to weight-loss dieting. It reduced inflammation, seems to be speeding up healing time, and has increased nerve sensations, like sense of touch, other sensual things, making my life more enjoyable. I am curious what others have to say about this , if anything. I will report back after trying the new oils. I do not do much oil, taking 1/2 tsp. sometimes a little more. I am trying to loose some body fat currently. I have been doing some fasting similar to the snake diet, drinking a sodium chloride free snake juice. I am hoping the oils will replenish omega-6 faster and increase well-being after breaking the fasts. I also consume 3 raw egg yolks a day.


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