13 replies to this topic

[shroomsupplementer]

I've been looking into strange supplements recently. One of them is this, so I ended up here: https://www.longecit...ne/#entry870375

 

I've also read countless threads, articles, studies and posts, and a lot of them are contradicting one another.

 

Considering that Resveratrol is so expensive (I've even found a decent supplier in Europe at this point), I'm beginning to seriously doubt that it's worth the money. I think there are other supplements, even a high quality Chlorella or Spirulina might be more worthwhile to take, which would end up costing about the same per year as Resveratrol at medium-high dosage of high quality microalgae and an average dose of Resveratrol.

 

What do you guys think?

[Oakman]

I think you should do what you believe is right. Take your considered opinion of all the supplements and buy ones you believe will help you. They just might.  And tell us what happened.

[Forever21]

I think Chlorella and Spirulina are as good as trash.

When drowning on conflicting information, I look up to the expert on what they are doing. I look up to Sinclair at Harvard who takes Resveratrol. 

 

So...I take Resveratrol.

 

Its not a perfect solution but my fallacious trust to authority is better than my trust to myself and my countless reading on the matter.

[Keizo]

As good or better for what? 

 

For me I bought another 100g bag (from bulkpowders) because I know it at least does something for me, but my goal is not to feel it. Most of the noticeable effects are actually negative for me - along the lines of wrist ache at high enough doses. I mostly see it as a nutrient boost, like eating some extra blueberries etc. I wouldn't want a more effective anti-estrogen -  that would be horrible (I actually have no idea if the mild aching feeling I get from 100s of mg's of trans-resveratrol is relating to reduced estrogenic like activity etc but that's the only conclusion I can draw (e.g. arimidex has similar but more severe side-effects) I'm not going to spend my entire monthly income going to a private doctor to see if I'm correct or not considering I'm healthy). Those effects aren't really why I'm taking it but I see the anti-estrogen like effects as an indicator of something substantially active getting into the system far beyond just eating a little bit of fruit and vegetables.

 

Also, coincidentally, years ago (age ~23) when I was taking a few 100 mg's of resv I experienced rather rapid testicular growth during this exact time (doubling within a few months, from ~15ml per to 25-35 ml per), but I had probably previously been somewhat deficient in various nutrients (including calories) that I corrected around this time. Seems somewhat plausible that resveratrol was acting sort of like how bodybuilders (and some US doctors) argue that drugs like arimidex or nolvadex can kick-start testicular function and testosterone production after A.A. steroid abuse/use.

 

But let's say I had high blood pressure, I'd probably get some Telmisartan instead, if I had to choose. It probably has some similar effects https://en.wikipedia...anism_of_action

and the plausible effects on PPAR are one big reason why I'm going to use some resveratrol, at least periodically, relating to e.g. preventing atherosclerosis

 

 

Edited by Keizo, 30 March 2020 - 09:06 AM.

[Castiel]

 A few 100mg high purity, is obtainable for quite low cost, at least in the U.S.

 

As for very high doses I think this might only be needed for very short periods of time, once an adequate dosing protocol is arrived at by researchers.   24 Hours at certain doses can restore telomere length by about 10 years, in human cells, iirc, in vitro.    

 

Resveratrol Sirt4 nampt telomere lengthening capacity declines with age in mice.   Might need NAD+ boost to compensate, as NAD+ declines with age, or it could be due to another cause.   Further research is needed, also need to check if same decline happens in humans with aging.

 

 

The scientists confirmed the interaction in mice injected with resveratrol. TyrRS's activation of PARP-1 led, in turn, to the activation of a host of protective genes including the tumor-suppressor gene p53 and the longevity genes FOXO3A and SIRT6. The team's experiments showed, however, that the TyrRS-PARP-1 pathway can be measurably activated by much lower doses of resveratrol -- as much as 1,000 times lower -- than were used in some of the more celebrated prior studies, including those focused on SIRT1. https://www.scienced...41222111940.htm

 

 

Even low doses of resveratrol can activate longevity genes like foxo3a and sirt6.

 

[Hermuller]

As for very high doses I think this might only be needed for very short periods of time, once an adequate dosing protocol is arrived at by researchers.   24 Hours at certain doses can restore telomere length by about 10 years, in human cells, iirc, in vitro.   

 

Wait what that's very short, do you have any references for that? :O
 

[Castiel]

Wait what that's very short, do you have any references for that? :O
 

I did a rough calculation based on the numbers from the paper on human cells discussed here

https://www.longecit...very-on-ageing/

 

While that was in humans, in that thread the effect on telomerase in mice is also brought, and the effect seems stronger at young ages than at greater ages.  We don't know if the same happens in humans, but it could be due to NAD+ age related decline and might apply to humans.

 

Humans lose 70 base pairs per year.

 

 

It is the first large-scale study that compares this highly variable parameter between species: human telomeres lose on average about 70 base pairs—the building blocks of genetic material—per year, whereas those of mice lose about 7,000 base pairs per year.

https://phys.org/new...s-lifespan.html

 

If you read the paper linked below, and discussed in the linked longecity thread above, it seems they used 5Micromole resveratrol for 24Hours in the experiment, if I"m not mistaken.

 

 

 We found that cells treated with resveratrol or any of the novel resveralogues had telomeres that were 1.3–2.4 times longer than vehicle-only controls, compared with younger cells at PD25, which showed telomeres 2.6 times longer than untreated senescent cells 

 https://bmcmolcellbi...2860-017-0147-7

 

 

 

Telomere length varies greatly among species and ranges from 10 to 15 kb in humans.

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/23647631/

 

The graphs on the resveratrol paper suggest significant restoration of telomere length.   Say the telomeres are 1Kb, aka 1000 bases, very short, doubling telomere length would be equivalent to over 10 years, at 70 base loss per year.

 

But I could be misunderstanding the researchers claims.   But it does seem to suggest

 

 

 

 telomere dynamics in primary fibroblast cultures and found a mean telomere length of 5.17 kb in senescent cells (Baird et al., 2003)

https://www.scienced...047637416301154

 

Those are senescent cells, the average telomere length is 5170 bases or 5.17kb.   The cells in the resveratrol experiment discussed were near senescent, meaning the likely had average slightly longer telomeres than that to start.

Edited by Castiel, 20 October 2020 - 06:33 AM.

[mgoktas20]

Hey, did anyone see this.

https://twitter.com/...545720587612162

Resveratrol & pterostilbene induce replicative stress by repressing nucleotide synthesis in a pathway that is independent of SIRT1.

 

[Neurocryo]

I’ve experimented with ptero and resveratrol on and off again for 10 years.  Feel my best on ptero but then found out it raises LDL significantly.  Then I did some reading and found this paper:https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/31853271/.

 

Based on my personalized genetics (overactive stat3) I decided it was ptero or bust.  I also have 2 good copies of TERT which I wanted to reduce a bit which ptero does.  I’ve read all the papers and decided it’s no contest, ptero is it.  The key is finding a good grape seed extract to counteract the increase in LDL.  I like the Solgar brand because it’s light protected and I felt less “strokey” when I took this brand with ptero as opposed to some random brand.  Strokey you say?  I feel I am more qualified to use this word because I have Raynaud’s disease and am more sensitive to vascular changes at extremities.  
 

Based on this paperhttps://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/28410217/ I see no reason this isn’t a senolytic.  It works for me may not for you.  Please not I am heterozygous for a good Sirt1 and foxo1

[Rosanna]

 I wouldn't want a more effective anti-estrogen -  that would be horrible (I actually have no idea if the mild aching feeling I get from 100s of mg's of trans-resveratrol is relating to reduced estrogenic like activity etc but that's the only conclusion I can draw (e.g. arimidex has similar but more severe side-effects) I'm not going to spend my entire monthly income going to a private doctor to see if I'm correct or not considering I'm healthy). Those effects aren't really why I'm taking it but I see the anti-estrogen like effects as an indicator of something substantially active getting into the system far beyond just eating a little bit of fruit and vegetables.

 

 

 

would you mind outlining the anti oestrogenic effect?  I've just turned 50 and female.  I decided to take HRT early, not yet menopausal but noticed enough changes to know I'm on the way.  From my research oestrogen appears to prevent ageing in women and disease (there's heart disease in the family), so decided to take it.  Would resveratrol work against women at my age if my theories are correct?  I'd been taking resveratrol for 2 years, stopped during covid, but otherwise, wondering if resveratrol could work against women?  Thanks for any thoughts

Edited by Rosanna, 10 March 2021 - 11:09 PM.

[Castiel]

I’ve experimented with ptero and resveratrol on and off again for 10 years.  Feel my best on ptero but then found out it raises LDL significantly.  Then I did some reading and found this paper:https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/31853271/.

 

Based on my personalized genetics (overactive stat3) I decided it was ptero or bust.  I also have 2 good copies of TERT which I wanted to reduce a bit which ptero does.  I’ve read all the papers and decided it’s no contest, ptero is it.  The key is finding a good grape seed extract to counteract the increase in LDL.  I like the Solgar brand because it’s light protected and I felt less “strokey” when I took this brand with ptero as opposed to some random brand.  Strokey you say?  I feel I am more qualified to use this word because I have Raynaud’s disease and am more sensitive to vascular changes at extremities.  
 

Based on this paperhttps://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/28410217/ I see no reason this isn’t a senolytic.  It works for me may not for you.  Please not I am heterozygous for a good Sirt1 and foxo1

 

I also think matcha(which needs to be consumed in moderation, from what I've heard) is also very good for cholesterol levels.

[Neurocryo]

I also think matcha(which needs to be consumed in moderation, from what I've heard) is also very good for cholesterol levels.

Hopefully regular green tea exhibits the same effect.  I consume kukicha in the evenings which is low in caffeine so sleep is no issue.

[Castiel]

Hopefully regular green tea exhibits the same effect.  I consume kukicha in the evenings which is low in caffeine so sleep is no issue.

 

I think it likely should

 

 

Green tea has been shown to reduce levels of total and “bad” LDL cholesterol, as well as triglycerides ( 20 , 21 ). It may also help prevent the oxidation of LDL cholesterol, another factor that may protect against heart disease ( 22 ).Feb 22, 2019-healthline

 

Matcha is the same plant as green tea, only consumed in powder usually in half teaspoon amounts.   It is said to be 2-3+ times stronger than most regular green teas.

[Perry23]

As good or better for what? 

 

For me I bought another 100g bag (from bulkpowders) because I know it at least does something for me, but my goal is not to feel it. Most of the noticeable effects are actually negative for me - along the lines of wrist ache at high enough doses. I mostly see it as a nutrient boost, like eating some extra blueberries etc. I wouldn't want a more effective anti-estrogen -  that would be horrible (I actually have no idea if the mild aching feeling I get from 100s of mg's of trans-resveratrol is relating to reduced estrogenic like activity etc but that's the only conclusion I can draw (e.g. arimidex has similar but more severe side-effects) I'm not going to spend my entire monthly income going to a private doctor to see if I'm correct or not considering I'm healthy). Those effects aren't really why I'm taking it but I see the anti-estrogen like effects as an indicator of something substantially active getting into the system far beyond just eating a little bit of fruit and vegetables.

 

Also, coincidentally, years ago (age ~23) when I was taking a few 100 mg's of resv I experienced rather rapid testicular growth during this exact time (doubling within a few months, from ~15ml per to 25-35 ml per), but I had probably previously been somewhat deficient in various nutrients (including calories) that I corrected around this time. Seems somewhat plausible that resveratrol was acting sort of like how bodybuilders (and some US doctors) argue that drugs like arimidex or nolvadex can kick-start testicular function and testosterone production after A.A. steroid abuse/use.

 

But let's say I had high blood pressure, I'd probably get some Telmisartan instead, if I had to choose. It probably has some similar effects https://en.wikipedia...anism_of_action

and the plausible effects on PPAR are one big reason why I'm going to use some resveratrol, at least periodically, relating to e.g. preventing atherosclerosis

 

not so sure, some years ago i have read that melatonin and resveratrol could have anti-aromatase effect. I have really high level of testosterone, little above upper limit so i was thinking that if i am interesting in bodybuilding and resveratrol and melatonin probably have some longevity effect it will be quite good idea to supplement both to low aromatase and even better use this high level of test .. and i was supplementing 1mg of melatonin and trans-resveratrol 200 mg. And when i have checked my estrogen it was just in the middle, as i remember even this 6 points of above than the middle of the reference range , it was about 5 years ago as i remember so i don't remember exact number but i was little surprised because i suppose to be in the low end but was above middle, so from my point of view it is not arimidex and at least in me if anti - aromatase effect takes place it is not high with that combination  

Edited by Perry23, 28 July 2021 - 11:15 PM.