Jump to content

-->
  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

coronavirus alternative views & theories

coronavirus covid-19

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
914 replies to this topic

#781 Daniel Cooper

Daniel Cooper
  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,661 posts
  • 634
  • Location:USA

Posted 17 June 2021 - 08:39 PM

Can't argue with that. We can go further and say cars are cars, and wristwatches are wristwatches, no matter who owns them.

 

But generally you will find billionaires drive a much higher quality automobile compared to your average office cleaner.

 

Likewise, scientific theories produced by experts in their field are generally of much higher quality than those produced by those who know nothing about that field.

 

 

The technical term for what you suggest is called "Appeal to authority".  You might google that phrase if you're interested.


  • Good Point x 3
  • Unfriendly x 1

#782 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 17 June 2021 - 09:52 PM

The technical term for what you suggest is called "Appeal to authority".  You might google that phrase if you're interested.

 

So your argument is that anyone can perform brain surgery, whether they have the background knowledge and expertise or not. A chef for example.

 

Interesting viewpoint. But I think for me, if I ever need surgery, I will stick with the professionals.


  • Off-Topic x 4
  • like x 2
  • Ill informed x 1

#783 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 17 June 2021 - 10:16 PM

In any case, taking into consideration the expertise and qualifications of the person(s) promoting a scientific theory is done for very good reasons. Let me explain.

 

Whenever you look at a scientific paper, your primary interest is usually whether or not the conclusions of the paper are true or reliable. There is a lot of junk science and third-rate science out there, especially in the area of medical science.  

 

Now, if you are an expert in the field, then maybe you will be able to judge the paper on its own merits. But nobody is an expert in every single medical field, as there are thousands of different medical specialities. And even if you were an expert in that field, even then it takes time: even an expert would have to spend days mulling over a single scientific paper before he can properly appraise it. 

 

So in most cases, we have not got the time nor expertise to properly appraise a paper purely on its merits.

 

Thus to help us decide whether a paper is valid, we look at the qualifications and expertise of the authors. And we look at their conflicts of interest. We use this information to help arrive at a conclusion regarding the validity of the paper's result or conclusion.

 

That system may not be perfect, but it does allow you to make an appraisal of a paper within 20 minutes. If you are reading many papers each week, you need a system like that.

 

 


Edited by Hip, 17 June 2021 - 10:19 PM.

  • Off-Topic x 3
  • Ill informed x 2

#784 Advocatus Diaboli

Advocatus Diaboli
  • Guest
  • 562 posts
  • 622
  • Location:Chronosynclastic Infundibulum ( floor Z/p^nZ )
  • NO

Posted 17 June 2021 - 10:49 PM

Re: post #782: In addition to "appeal to authority", looking up the definition of "straw man" would seem to be appropriate.

 

Example: "Exaggerating (sometimes grossly exaggerating) an opponent's argument, then attacking this exaggerated version."


  • Good Point x 2
  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • like x 1
  • Agree x 1

#785 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 17 June 2021 - 11:12 PM

Re: post #782: In addition to "appeal to authority", looking up the definition of "straw man" would seem to be appropriate.

 

Example: "Exaggerating (sometimes grossly exaggerating) an opponent's argument, then attacking this exaggerated version."

 

In this pandemic scenario, my brain surgeon analogy is not really an exaggeration. If you allow a medically incompetent person to perform brain surgery on you, you may die. Likewise, if you let a scientifically incompetent person dictate what pandemic control measures a government should use, if they screw up, hundreds of thousands may die. There is a lot at stake.

 

This is why I find it hard to understand how some people here are posting the views of medical eccentrics or quacks. You would think that with so much at stake, people would only post the views of the most highly qualified experts on pandemic control. 

 

Yet instead, we see people here posting the equivalent of a set of brain surgery instructions compiled by a chef! 


  • Pointless, Timewasting x 3
  • Ill informed x 2
  • Agree x 2

#786 Advocatus Diaboli

Advocatus Diaboli
  • Guest
  • 562 posts
  • 622
  • Location:Chronosynclastic Infundibulum ( floor Z/p^nZ )
  • NO

Posted 18 June 2021 - 12:05 AM

Re:post #785

 

"In this pandemic scenario, my brain surgeon analogy is not really an exaggeration. "

 

With any kind of luck you will experience an excitation in the medial aspect of your right hemisphere's anterior superior temporal gyrus. Check back in with us when it occurs, as it will signal that you've returned to reality (re this matter) and might be able to be reasoned with.

 

 

(This message is brought to you by the "Unholy Trinity© Stable Genius Tech Inc. : Orange God King, Deer Leader (who wants no child to be left behind), and the Malevolent Charlatan (who gives new meaning to the word "mountebank"))

 

 


Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 18 June 2021 - 12:41 AM.

  • dislike x 2
  • Enjoying the show x 2
  • Well Written x 1

#787 Dorian Grey

Dorian Grey
  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 2,164 posts
  • 975
  • Location:kalifornia

Posted 18 June 2021 - 01:20 AM

Regarding faith in our top tier medical scientists, we might consider the boffins at the FDA gave remdesivir full approval, just a week after the WHO Solidarity trial announced their trials found: "no important effect on mortality, need for mechanical ventilation, time to clinical improvement, and other patient-important outcomes."

 

In the past week, the FDA also approved $56,000/year Aducanumab; which one of two studies showed provided no benefit at all, the other, an almost immeasurably small potential for benefit. 

 

Adverse effects?  https://reference.me...numab-4000138#4

 

Amyloid-related imaging abnormalities-edema (ARIA-E) (35%)  (brain swelling)

 

Headache (21%)

ARIA-H microhemorrhage (19%)  (brain bleeding)

ARIA-H superficial siderosis (15%)  (subdural iron deposits on the brain)

Falls (15%)

Diarrhea (9%)

Confusion/delirium/altered mental status/disorientation (8%)

-----------------------

Patients will also need an expensive pre-treatment PET scan, which may need to be repeated periodically to confirm whether the potential benefit is occurring.  

Don't know what's going on with the desk doctors at the FDA, but it appears the boffins have all gone crackers.  I'll put my faith in board certified specialists actually treating patients in the field, & reporting their experiences over the Big Pharma circle-jerk going on at the FDA any day.  


  • Informative x 2

#788 Mind

Mind
  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,090 posts
  • 2,003
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 18 June 2021 - 03:15 PM

In this pandemic scenario, my brain surgeon analogy is not really an exaggeration. If you allow a medically incompetent person to perform brain surgery on you, you may die. Likewise, if you let a scientifically incompetent person dictate what pandemic control measures a government should use, if they screw up, hundreds of thousands may die. There is a lot at stake.

 

This is why I find it hard to understand how some people here are posting the views of medical eccentrics or quacks. You would think that with so much at stake, people would only post the views of the most highly qualified experts on pandemic control. 

 

Yet instead, we see people here posting the equivalent of a set of brain surgery instructions compiled by a chef! 

 

This is an ad hominem and "straw man" argument again (and again, and again....)

 

I have posted a multitude of peer-reviewed science and quotes from very respected scientists, virologists, epidemiologists, etc...

 

After careful review, if you want to poke holes in their conclusions or the research, that is fine. Calling them all quacks is not an argument.


  • Good Point x 3
  • Agree x 3

#789 Florin

Florin
  • Guest
  • 850 posts
  • 30
  • Location:Cannot be left blank

Posted 18 June 2021 - 07:50 PM

In this pandemic scenario, my brain surgeon analogy is not really an exaggeration. If you allow a medically incompetent person to perform brain surgery on you, you may die. Likewise, if you let a scientifically incompetent person dictate what pandemic control measures a government should use, if they screw up, hundreds of thousands may die. There is a lot at stake.

 

This is why I find it hard to understand how some people here are posting the views of medical eccentrics or quacks. You would think that with so much at stake, people would only post the views of the most highly qualified experts on pandemic control. 

 

Yet instead, we see people here posting the equivalent of a set of brain surgery instructions compiled by a chef! 

 

That's not a good way to reason about experts.

 

Here's a better way:

  • Some experts are incompetent or their opinions are based on poor evidence, especially if they specialize in a soft science.
  • Some experts step outside their field without telling you (e.g., epidemiologists pretending to be sociologists).
  • Get a second, third, and fourth expert opinion (e.g., Western experts versus Asian experts).
  • If an expert opinion doesn't make sense (e.g., masks use increases nose and mouth touching), disregard it and make a decision based on your own research and reasoning.

Edited by Florin, 18 June 2021 - 08:07 PM.

  • unsure x 1
  • like x 1

#790 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 19 June 2021 - 01:29 AM

After careful review, if you want to poke holes in their conclusions or the research, that is fine. Calling them all quacks is not an argument.

 

Few people here have the time and inclination to spend days reading and investigating every paper or study that you post. This sort of thing can take days of work just for one paper. How many papers posted by other people here have you spent a whole day reading? Not many I bet. 

 

Quick and dirty methods of coming to conclusions about the veracity of a paper are helpful when we are time pressed. 

 

That is especially necessary on these LongeCity coronavirus threads, where deluge of dubious and quack sources and articles are cited. It's not my job to constantly read the dubious studies on behalf of others, and spend hours or days looking for the inevitable flaws. That's the job of the people who are posting them. For me, if a study looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is quackery. 

 

 

If a known quack like Mercola posts some info, then you can make a quick and dirty assumption that Mercola's article may well be bogus (although Mercola does also post legitimate stuff as well; he is a sort of semi-quack). 

 

If a paper is published in a non-MEDLINE medical journal, then again a quick and dirty assumption is that you should be cautious about believing its results.


Edited by Hip, 19 June 2021 - 01:42 AM.

  • Ill informed x 2
  • Unfriendly x 2

#791 bladedmind

bladedmind
  • Guest
  • 286 posts
  • 221
  • Location:United States
  • NO

Posted 19 June 2021 - 05:43 PM

The following twitter entry was censored by twitter for objecting to twitter censorship.
 

Any low-cost, life-saving treatment is a distraction away from the vaccine rush cash-cow, and it involves “the deepest, most powerful opponents you can imagine.”  @rod_lampard Evolutionary Biologist Calls Censorship of Ivermectin the “Crime of the Century”

http://pbs.twimg.com...K9XVEAQ_RqG.jpg

 

Evolutionary Biologist Calls Censorship of Ivermectin the “Crime of the Century”

 



 


Edited by bladedmind, 19 June 2021 - 05:47 PM.

  • Informative x 3
  • Good Point x 1

#792 Mind

Mind
  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,090 posts
  • 2,003
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 20 June 2021 - 09:27 AM

It is really time for national and world courts to start investigating these decisions by the FDA, by Facebook, by Youtube, By Google.

 

https://taibbi.subst...-become-a-dirty

 

If these bureaucrats and companies are unethically preventing people from accessing life-saving information (according to robust and most times peer-reviewed research), what else are they manipulating behind the scenes?

 

That the vaccines are really as safe as they say they are? (so far the incidence/death rate is just a small percentage, but you can't talk about it on social media and you won't hear it from CNN)

 

https://www.theepoch...al_3862749.html

 

That everyone still has to be careful, social distance, and wear masks, even after being vaccinated?

 

Leaders at G7 eat expensive food and party on the beach, no worries about COVID apparently. Just like a lot of other health bureaucrats, "leaders", and governors in the U.S. throughout last year. They violate their own COVID rules with impunity and never face criminal punishment, but regular people do.


  • Good Point x 3
  • Well Written x 1
  • Enjoying the show x 1

#793 bladedmind

bladedmind
  • Guest
  • 286 posts
  • 221
  • Location:United States
  • NO

Posted 20 June 2021 - 06:41 PM

In May, 2020, Dr Seheult reviewed the therapeutic potential of n-acetyl cysteine for covid-19 (I'm not saying its efficacy is firmly established). 

 

 

In July 2020, the FDA warned a seller of n-acetyl cysteine (NAC) that it was illegally selling it as a supplement, since it is an approved FDA drug.  NAC has been a drug for 57 years, but FDA took no notice of its sale as a supplement over several decades.

 

In May, 2021, Amazon suspended sale of NAC. 

 

I have no evidence, and I would have considered this suggestion preposterous a year ago, but isn’t it quite a coincidence that yet another potential therapeutic for covid-19, cheap and easily available, is suppressed by the FDA? 

 

In 2020, there were 1500 pharma lobbyists in DC, 64% of them were former government employees. 

 

They contributed 90 million dollars to politicians in that year.

 

To suggest that they expect nothing in return for their 90 million is – you guessed it – a conspiracy theory that low-status people read about in tabloids.  As well as harmful disinformation that needs to be censored.   Everyone should feel proud that each and every lobbyist, politician, and bureaucrat in America is purely devoted to the public interest. 

 

To believe otherwise could qualify you as an extremist because of "anti–government or anti–authority sentiment.”  DHS is now working on programs to enhance “media literacy and critical thinking skills, as a mechanism for strengthening user resilience to disinformation and misinformation online for domestic audiences” so as to counter such sentiments. And the White House wants to create “contexts in which those who are family members or friends or co-workers know that there are pathways and avenues to raise concerns and seek help for those who they have perceived to be radicalizing and potentially radicalizing towards violence.”

 


Edited by bladedmind, 20 June 2021 - 06:43 PM.

  • Informative x 3
  • Agree x 1

#794 Mind

Mind
  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,090 posts
  • 2,003
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 26 June 2021 - 09:47 AM

It is getting very bad. Isn't anyone else terrified about the state of the health bureaucracies right now? Absolutely no questions allowed!! Absolutely no proven out-patient treatments allowed!!

 

Canadian doctor fired after issuing statement questioning the push for vaccinating kids. https://www.lewrockw...s-for-children/

 

As recently as last week, the WHO's website still had the statement - not recommending the experimental gene therapies for kids.

 

Obscenely wealthy people are becoming more obscenely wealthy because of the experimental gene therapy push. It looks like a cash cow for years to come if they can convince people to stayed fearful of every variant of every respiratory disease.

 

It really seems like a case of millions of people being allowed to die, just so some mega-corps can turn huge profits.

 


  • Good Point x 3
  • Agree x 2
  • Well Written x 1
  • Enjoying the show x 1

#795 Mind

Mind
  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,090 posts
  • 2,003
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 26 June 2021 - 12:32 PM

Why aren't more people angry that politicians, top health bureaucrats, and other "important people", get to violate all of the COVID mandates/laws/restrictions with impunity whenever they want and never face consequences.

 

Honest question. It makes me angry. I wonder why more people are not angry. Maybe because the national news networks never report on the hypocrisy? So most people don't know this is going on?

 

https://www.zerohedg...ide-wont-resign Researchers who break the rules face zero consequences.

 

https://www.zerohedg...der-covid-rules "Important people" don't need to quarantine


  • Good Point x 4
  • Enjoying the show x 1
  • Ill informed x 1

#796 pamojja

pamojja
  • Guest
  • 2,842 posts
  • 722
  • Location:Austria

Posted 28 June 2021 - 07:13 PM

 

Covid19 – the final nail in coffin of medical research
 

28th June 2021

 

“The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time.” Edward Grey

 

Several years ago, I wrote a book called Doctoring Data. It was my attempt to help people navigate their way through medical headlines and medical data.

 

One of the main reasons I was stimulated to write it, is because I had become deeply concerned that science, especially medical science, had been almost fully taken over by commercial interests. With the end result that much of the data we were getting bombarded with was enormously biased, and thus corrupted. I wanted to show how some of this bias gets built in.

 

I was not alone in my concerns. As far back as 2005, John Ioannidis wrote the very highly cited paper ‘Why most Published Research Findings are False’. It has been downloaded and read by many, many, thousands of researchers over the years, so they can’t say they don’t know:

 

‘Moreover for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias.’1

 

Marcia Angell, who edited the New England Journal of Medicine for twenty years, wrote the following. It is a quote I have used many times, in many different talks:

 

‘It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgement of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.’

 

Peter Gotzsche, who set up the Nordic Cochrane Collaboration, and who was booted out of said Cochrane collaboration for questioning the HPV vaccine (used to prevent cervical cancer) wrote the book. ‘Deadly Medicine and Organised Crime. [How big pharma has corrupted healthcare]’.

 

The book cover states… ‘The main reason we take so many drugs is that drug companies don’t sell drugs, they sell lies about drugs… virtually everything we know about drugs is what the companies have chosen to tell us and our doctors… if you don’t believe the system is out of control, please e-mail me and explain why drugs are the third leading cause of death.’

 

Richard Smith edited the British Medical Journal (BMJ) for many years. He now writes a blog, amongst other things. A few years ago, he commented:

 

‘Twenty years ago this week, the statistician Doug Altman published an editorial in the BMJ arguing that much medical research was of poor quality and misleading. In his editorial entitled ‘The scandal of Poor Medical Research.’ Altman wrote that much research was seriously flawed through the use of inappropriate designs, unrepresentative sample, small sample, incorrect methods of analysis and faulty interpretation… Twenty years later, I feel that things are not better, but worse…

 

In 2002 I spent eight marvellous weeks in a 15th palazzo in Venice writing a book on medical journals, the major outlets for medical research, and the dismal conclusion that things were badly wrong with journals and the research they published. My confidence that ‘things can only get better’ has largely drained away.’

 

Essentially, medical research has inexorably turned into an industry. A very lucrative industry. Many medical journals now charge authors thousands of dollars to publish their research. This ensures that it is very difficult for any researcher, not supported by a university, or a pharmaceutical company, to afford to publish anything, unless they are independently wealthy.

 

The journals then have the cheek to claim copyright, and charge money to anyone who actually wants to read, or download the full paper. Fifty dollars for a few on-line pages! They then bill for reprints, they charge for advertising. Those who had the temerity to write the article get nothing – and nor do the peer reviewers.

 

It is all very profitable. Last time I looked the Return on Investment (profit) was thirty-five per-cent for the big publishing houses. It was Robert Maxwell who first saw this opportunity for money making.

 

Driven by financial imperative, the research itself has also, inevitably, become biased. He who pays the paper calls the tune. Pharmaceutical companies, food manufacturers and suchlike. They can certainly afford the publication fees.

 

In addition to all the financial and peer-review pressure, if you dare swim against the approved mainstream views you will, very often, be ruthlessly attacked. As many people know, I am a critic of the cholesterol hypothesis, along with my band of brothers…we few, we happy few. In the 1970s, Kilmer McCully, who plays double bass in our band, was looking into a cause of cardiovascular disease that went against the mainstream view. This is what happened to him:

 

‘Thomas N. James, a cardiologist and president of the University of Texas Medical Branch who was also the president of the American Heart Association in 1979 and ’80, is even harsher [regarding the treatment of McCully]. ”It was worse than that – you couldn’t get ideas funded that went in other directions than cholesterol,” he says. ”You were intentionally discouraged from pursuing alternative questions. I’ve never dealt with a subject in my life that elicited such an immediate hostile response.

 

It took two years for McCully to find a new research job. His children were reaching college age; he and his wife refinanced their house and borrowed from her parents. McCully says that his job search developed a pattern: he would hear of an opening, go for interviews and then the process would grind to a stop. Finally, he heard rumors of what he calls ”poison phone calls” from Harvard. ”It smelled to high heaven,” he says.’

 

McCully says that when he was interviewed on Canadian television after he left Harvard, he received a call from the public-affairs director of Mass. General. ”He told me to shut up,” McCully recalls. ”He said he didn’t want the names of Harvard and Mass. General associated with my theories.’ 2

 

More recently, I was sent a link to an article outlining the attacks made on another researcher who published a paper which found that being overweight meant having a (slightly) lower risk of death than being of ‘normal weight. This, would never do:

 

‘A naïve researcher published a scientific article in a respectable journal. She thought her article was straightforward and defensible. It used only publicly available data, and her findings were consistent with much of the literature on the topic. Her coauthors included two distinguished statisticians.

 

To her surprise her publication was met with unusual attacks from some unexpected sources within the research community. These attacks were by and large not pursued through normal channels of scientific discussion. Her research became the target of an aggressive campaign that included insults, errors, misinformation, social media posts, behind-the-scenes gossip and maneuvers, and complaints to her employer.

 

The goal appeared to be to undermine and discredit her work. The controversy was something deliberately manufactured, and the attacks primarily consisted of repeated assertions of preconceived opinions. She learned first-hand the antagonism that could be provoked by inconvenient scientific findings. Guidelines and recommendations should be based on objective and unbiased data. Development of public health policy and clinical recommendations is complex and needs to be evidence-based rather than belief-based. This can be challenging when a hot-button topic is involved.’ 3

 

Those who lead the attacks on her were my very favourite researchers, Walter Willet and Frank Hu. Two eminent researchers from Harvard who I nickname Tweedledum and Tweedledummer. Harvard itself has become an institution, which, along with Oxford University, comes up a lot in tales of bullying and intimidation. Willet and Hu are internationally known for promoting vegetarian and vegan diets. Willet is a key figure in the EAT-Lancet initiative.

 

Where is science in all this? I feel the need to state, at this point, that I don’t mind attacks on ideas. I like robust debate. Science can only progress through a process of new hypotheses being proposed, being attacked, being refined and strengthened – or obliterated. But what we see now is not science. It is the obliteration of science itself:

 

‘Anyone who has been a scientist for more than 20 years will realize that there has been a progressive decline in the honesty of communications between scientists, between scientists and their institutions and the outside world.

 

Yet, real science must be an area where truth is the rule; or else the activity simply stops being scient and becomes something else: Zombie science. Zombie science is a science that is dead, but is artificially keep moving by a continual infusion of funding. From a distance Zombie science looks like the real thing, the surface features of a science are in place – white coats, laboratories, computer programming, PhDs, papers, conferences, prizes etc. But the Zombie is not interested in the pursuit of truth – its citations are externally-controlled and directed at non-scientific goals, and inside the Zombie everything is rotten…

 

Scientists are usually too careful and clever to risk telling outright lies, but instead they push the envelope of exaggeration, selectivity and distortion as far as possible. And tolerance for this kind of untruthfulness has greatly increased over recent years. So, it is now routine for scientists deliberately to ‘hype’ the significance of their status and performance and ‘spin’ the importance of their research.’ Bruce Charlton: Professor of Theoretical Medicine.

 

I was already pretty depressed with the direction that medical science was taking. Then COVID19 came along, the distortion and hype became so outrageous that I almost gave up trying to establish what was true, and was just made up nonsense.

 

For example, I stated, right at the start of the COVID19 pandemic, that vitamin D could be important in protecting against the virus. For having the audacity to say this, I was attacked by the fact checkers. Indeed, anyone promoting vitamin D to reduce the risk of COVID19 infection, was ruthlessly hounded.

 

 Guess what. Here from 17th June:

 

‘Hospitalized COVID-19 patients are far more likely to die or to end up in severe or critical condition if they are vitamin D-deficient, Israeli researchers have found.

 

In a study conducted in a Galilee hospital, 26 percent of vitamin D-deficient coronavirus patients died, while among other patients the figure was at 3%.

 

“This is a very, very significant discrepancy, which represents a big clue that starting the disease with very low vitamin D leads to increased mortality and more severity,” Dr. Amir Bashkin, endocrinologist and part of the research team, told The Times of Israel.’ 4

 

I also recommended vitamin C for those already in hospital. Again, I was attacked, as has everyone who has dared to mention COVID19 and vitamin C in the same sentence. Yet, we know that vitamin C is essential for the health and wellbeing of blood vessels, and the endothelial cells that line them. In severe infection the body burns through vitamin C, and people can become ‘scrobutic’ (the name given to severe lack of vitamin C).

 

Vitamin C is also known to have powerful anti-viral activity. It has been known for years. Here, from an article in 1996:

 

‘Over the years, it has become well recognized that ascorbate can bolster the natural defense mechanisms of the host and provide protection not only against infectious disease, but also against cancer and other chronic degenerative diseases. The functions involved in ascorbate’s enhancement of host resistance to disease include its biosynthetic (hy-droxylating), antioxidant, and immunostimulatory activities. In addition, ascorbate exerts a direct antiviral action that may confer specific protection against viral disease. The vitamin has been found to inactivate a wide spectrum of viruses as well as suppress viral replication abd expression in infected cell.’ 5

 

I like quoting research on vitamins from way before COVID19 appeared, where people were simply looking at Vitamin C without the entire medico-industrial complex looking over their shoulder, ready to stamp out anything they don’t like.

 

Despite a mass of evidence that Vitamin C has benefits against viral infection, it is a complete no-go area and no-one even dares to research it now. Facebook removes any content relating to Vitamin C and COVID19.

 

As of today, any criticism of the mainstream narrative is simply being removed. Those who dare to raise their heads above the parapet, have them chopped off:

 

‘Dr Francis Christian, practising surgeon and clinical professor of general surgery at the University of Saskatchewan, has been immediately suspended from all teaching and will be permanently removed from his role as of September.

 

Dr Christian has been a surgeon for more than 20 years and began working in Saskatoon in 2007. He was appointed Director of the Surgical Humanities Program and Director of Quality and Patient Safety in 2018 and co-founded the Surgical Humanities Program. Dr. Christian is also the Editor of the Journal of The Surgical Humanities.

 

On June 17th Dr Christian released a statement to over 200 of his colleagues, expressing concern over the lack of informed consent involved in Canada’s “Covid19 vaccination” program, especially regarding children.

To be clear, Dr Christian’s position is hardly an extreme one.

 

He believes the virus is real, he believes in vaccination as a general principle, he believes the elderly and vulnerable may benefit from the Covid “vaccine”… he simply doesn’t agree it should be used on children, and feels parents are not being given enough information for properly informed consent.6

 

When I wrote Doctoring Data, a few years ago, I included the following thoughts about the increasing censorship and punishment that was already very clearly out in the open:

 

…where does it end? Well, we know where it ends.

 

First, they came for the communists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist

 

Then they came for the socialists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist

 

Then they came from the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist

 

Then they came for me, and there was no-one left to speak for me

 

Do you think this is a massive over-reaction? Do I really believe that we are heading for some form of totalitarian stated, where dissent against the medical ‘experts’ will be punishable by imprisonment? Well, yes, I do. We are already in a situation where doctors who fail to follow the dreaded ‘guidelines’ can be sued, or dragged in front the General Medical Council, and struck of. Thus losing their job and income…

 

Where next?

 

The lamps are not just going out all over Europe. They are going out, all over the world.

 


Edited by pamojja, 28 June 2021 - 07:16 PM.

  • like x 2
  • Good Point x 1

#797 pamojja

pamojja
  • Guest
  • 2,842 posts
  • 722
  • Location:Austria

Posted 28 June 2021 - 08:13 PM

Honest question. It makes me angry. I wonder why more people are not angry. Maybe because the national news networks never report on the hypocrisy? So most people don't know this is going on?

 
For a part, certainly. But guess an other part couldn't care less about such triffles of those in power - due to the wider and more serious implications making one feel powerless and sad about not being able to do much about.

 

Like for example experimental vaccines being given without informed consent. With which I don't mean anyone here on this forum after doing considerable reseach taking the risk. But most average Joes and Janes simply not being in the position to know how to read original research and its implications. None of my friends and aquantances getting a shot got really informed of any possible risks.
 
Right from the beginning all the lies felt to me, and I honestly was taken by surprise, we are entering the middle-ages again. Or rather in the latest labour to a truly enligthened future, still far away. On an other forum I posted above quote directed at one of Hip's naive comments more than a year ago:
 
First, they came for the communists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist
Then they came for the socialists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist
Then they came from the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist
Then they came for me, and there was no-one left to speak for me
 
Immetiately got deleted.

 

So I feel with the lights going out everywhere, for probably a large part of our remaining personal lifes, I couldn't care less about those additional freedoms of the already anyway privileged beyond anything still reasonable.

 

But the serfdom inflicted on everyone else, as it still was in the middle ages. Or even closer: during the 3rd Reich, the Soviet Union or today's China. Only this time much more all-encompassing with all the technological advandages than ever before. Resistance like during the 3rd Reich has become impossible. This time big brother is really watching every minute of your life.

 

However, the helplessness of serfdom like in the middle-ages also is always bound to leave one day again. So the real question becomes: How to use one's time to contribute non-violently to that end, even if we wont experience it again in our lifetime.

 

In the final analysis its all relative. If I think about the living-conditions in Myanmar, just as random example, we still have much, much distance to real serfdom.

 

Anyway, much opportunity to deal with anger, sadness, helpnessless, mourning. And not forget to cultivate a surplus of positive emotions too. Certainly will have epigenetic imprints on future generation. Which will really need it badly, with all resources wasted and everything toxified by their forefathers in about a thousand further years.

 

Times to think big, feel vast and act wisely.


Edited by pamojja, 28 June 2021 - 08:18 PM.

  • Good Point x 1
  • Ill informed x 1
  • Informative x 1
  • dislike x 1
  • like x 1
  • Agree x 1

#798 geo12the

geo12the
  • Guest
  • 762 posts
  • -211

Posted 28 June 2021 - 08:30 PM

Why aren't more people angry that politicians, top health bureaucrats, and other "important people", get to violate all of the COVID mandates/laws/restrictions with impunity whenever they want and never face consequences.

 

Honest question. It makes me angry. I wonder why more people are not angry. Maybe because the national news networks never report on the hypocrisy? So most people don't know this is going on?

 

https://www.zerohedg...ide-wont-resign Researchers who break the rules face zero consequences.

 

https://www.zerohedg...der-covid-rules "Important people" don't need to quarantine

 

Angry about what exactly? I don't care if someone did not wear a mask and put themselves at risk be it a politician or whomever. There is not a epidemic of people being punished for not wearing a mask unless you count being allowed to Safeway without a mask or whatever punishment. It's manufactured drama- some silly politician caught making out with someone or not wearing a mask for 5 seconds  and it's spun into some big travesty.  Why aren't people more angry we live in a world where wide swaths of people believe idiotic fairy tales like Qanon? 


Edited by geo12the, 28 June 2021 - 08:32 PM.

  • Unfriendly x 2
  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • like x 1
  • Disagree x 1
  • Agree x 1

#799 Mind

Mind
  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,090 posts
  • 2,003
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 29 June 2021 - 04:52 PM

I am angry because "regular people" are being arrested, fined, jailed, beaten, etc... for not following COVID protocols, while rich elites, politicians, and bureaucrats violate the rules with impunity and face no consequences.

 

Like these French politicians. When they think the cameras are off, they are not wearing masks. Then they put them on just for theatre. They obviously could care less about the virus and are not worried at all about getting sick. Yet they go on TV and spread extreme fear about the virus.

 

This is unethical at a minimum and unlawful in most cases. They are violating the trust of the populace. They are liars. No one is supposed to be above the law. Why should people be NOT be angry? 


  • Good Point x 3
  • Enjoying the show x 2
  • Agree x 1

#800 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 29 June 2021 - 05:32 PM

I am angry because "regular people" are being arrested, fined, jailed, beaten, etc... for not following COVID protocols, while rich elites, politicians, and bureaucrats violate the rules with impunity and face no consequences.

 

The UK Secretary of State for Health Matt Hancock, who has been in charge of the UK's pandemic response since the beginning, was just forced to resign two days ago, because he was photographed kissing his girlfriend outside of his marriage, thereby breaking social distancing rules. Given all the effort he has put into coordinating the UK's pandemic response, that is a pretty harsh punishment.


  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 3
  • Agree x 1

#801 Daniel Cooper

Daniel Cooper
  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,661 posts
  • 634
  • Location:USA

Posted 29 June 2021 - 06:06 PM

The UK Secretary of State for Health Matt Hancock, who has been in charge of the UK's pandemic response since the beginning, was just forced to resign two days ago, because he was photographed kissing his girlfriend outside of his marriage, thereby breaking social distancing rules. Given all the effort he has put into coordinating the UK's pandemic response, that is a pretty harsh punishment.

 

And had that photograph not been published by an adversarial media ....... nothing.


  • Good Point x 2

#802 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 29 June 2021 - 06:58 PM

And had that photograph not been published by an adversarial media ....... nothing.

 

Well obviously you need evidence of someone breaking the social distancing rules before you can apply any punishment. You have to be caught breaking the rules. Remember innocent until proven guilty?

 

But once caught, it seems the general public get off much more lightly with breaking the rules than the politicians. 

 

In the UK, we have had massive anti-lockdown demos in the street, anti-mask demos, not to mention black lives matter demos, all of which were not socially distanced, and people were not wearing masks in many cases, yet nobody was arrested for breaking lockdown rules to my knowledge.

 

Likewise, we have had lots of illegal raves and illegal drinking bars running during lockdown, and the only thing which happened is that the organizers got fined, but none of the participants were fined. 

 

Yet Hancock just kisses his long term lover which he had a relationship with even before the pandemic, and loses his job. He should have had some punishment, sure, like the usual £100 fine that other people in the UK get when they break social distancing regulations. But losing his job is far too severe a punishment. 

 

Some argue that because the politicians are setting the rules, they should scrupulously follow them. But we are all human, and as long as we are following the social distancing rules by and large, small occasional breaches of those rules should be acceptable. You should be fined if caught, but nothing more than that.

 

There were however a lot of Tory backbenchers who wanted Hancock out, I am not sure why, so that also played a role in his departure. Some criticized the way he handled the pandemic.

 

 

Of course if you are an anarchist or hate governments and politicians, or hate any form of authority, then you are going be gleeful with what happened to Hancock. There are lots of people with such anti-establishment hate in their hearts. Like Antifa, the ultra-left wing organization who want to dismantle government and the police. 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Hip, 29 June 2021 - 07:58 PM.

  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 3

#803 geo12the

geo12the
  • Guest
  • 762 posts
  • -211

Posted 30 June 2021 - 12:03 AM

I am angry because "regular people" are being arrested, fined, jailed, beaten, etc... for not following COVID protocols, while rich elites, politicians, and bureaucrats violate the rules with impunity and face no consequences.

 

Like these French politicians. When they think the cameras are off, they are not wearing masks. Then they put them on just for theatre. They obviously could care less about the virus and are not worried at all about getting sick. Yet they go on TV and spread extreme fear about the virus.

 

This is unethical at a minimum and unlawful in most cases. They are violating the trust of the populace. They are liars. No one is supposed to be above the law. Why should people be NOT be angry? 

 

Who the hell are the regular people being arrested? Again crying wolf.


  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 1
  • Disagree x 1
  • Agree x 1

#804 geo12the

geo12the
  • Guest
  • 762 posts
  • -211

Posted 30 June 2021 - 03:10 AM

It's telling that people here are dragging out the "First, they came" nonsense. More anti-scientist hysteria and crying wolf. 


  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 3
  • Agree x 1

#805 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 30 June 2021 - 03:49 AM

First, they came for the communists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist
Then they came for the socialists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist
Then they came from the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist
Then they came for me, and there was no-one left to speak for me


Here is a more appropriate version for modern times:

First, they came for the misinformation merchants, and I didn’t speak out, because I wasn’t a misinformation merchant

Then they came for the fake news peddlers, and I didn’t speak out, because I wasn’t a fake news peddler

Then they came for the pseudoscientists and quacks, and I didn’t speak out, because I wasn’t a pseudoscientist or quack

Then they came for me, and reported the good news that all the bullshiters were now locked up, so we can henceforth live in truth and honesty

 

 

 

I read an interesting article today: Why some biologists and ecologists think social media is a risk to humanity

 

This article details a new paper which is basically suggesting the degree to which misinformation is being spread by social media is becoming a threat to humanity and civilization, and must be addressed urgently.

 

 

  

 

 

 


Edited by Hip, 30 June 2021 - 03:53 AM.

  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 2
  • like x 1
  • Agree x 1

#806 Advocatus Diaboli

Advocatus Diaboli
  • Guest
  • 562 posts
  • 622
  • Location:Chronosynclastic Infundibulum ( floor Z/p^nZ )
  • NO

Posted 30 June 2021 - 05:49 AM

post #803, geo12the: "Who the hell are the regular people being arrested? Again crying wolf."

 

Mind, as usual, was spreading his typical misinformation, disinformation, lies. and conspiracy-Faux-news. And, to make matters worse for himself in terms of veracity, the dolt didn't even check the internet first to see that there weren't any examples of the BS he's been spouting, but just went right ahead vomiting rubbish and thus proving himself to be a fool of the highest caliber.

 

 

(This message was brought to you by Deer Leader, who warned of stagflation many months ago)

 

 

 


Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 30 June 2021 - 06:39 AM.

  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 2
  • Unfriendly x 1
  • Informative x 1
  • dislike x 1

#807 pamojja

pamojja
  • Guest
  • 2,842 posts
  • 722
  • Location:Austria

Posted 30 June 2021 - 10:29 AM

Then they came for me, and reported the good news that all the bullshiters were now locked up, so we can henceforth live in truth and honesty

 

That's in the wet-dreams of any dictator. With the ceaveat that at that point always millions have been murdered. And/or the dictator suicides/vanished to exil himself.

 

In the olden days the pub/restaurant of a village were the equivalent of social-media. Heard the anecdote of my grandpa in such a village meating place high up in Austrian mountains (Galtür) rave against Adolf Hitler, of course drunk. And from that onward lived in fear of being denounced and executed for the remaining years of the 3rd Reich.

 

He survived, but instead the web-dream had turned into a night-mare.
 


Edited by pamojja, 30 June 2021 - 11:12 AM.

  • Good Point x 1

#808 pamojja

pamojja
  • Guest
  • 2,842 posts
  • 722
  • Location:Austria

Posted 30 June 2021 - 10:51 AM

Again for perspective also of the perpetrators of such wet-dreams: my other grandpa faught with the Wehrmacht. Imprissioned in Czechia, escaped on a horse back home to Salzburg. Didn't recognize his own children again, suffered constant night-mares, a tuberculosis and died suddenly shortly after being hospitalized. Remained unknown why.


Edited by pamojja, 30 June 2021 - 11:14 AM.

  • Informative x 1

#809 Hip

Hip
  • Guest
  • 2,401 posts
  • -451
  • Location:UK

Posted 30 June 2021 - 01:54 PM

That's in the wet-dreams of any dictator. With the ceaveat that at that point always millions have been murdered.

 
I think you have lost the plot.
 
That statement is an example of blatant misinformation in itself. You are trying to suggest that creating a truthful media and truthful social media is like a dictatorship. In fact it is the reverse: dictators tend to create a fabric of lies, to manipulate the populace, whereas democracies tend to operate on truth.
 
You may have your head in the sand, and not realize what is going on all around you, but lies and misinformation online are becoming a critical problem. 

 
 
In the news recently is the fact that the UK's Chief Medical Officer, Dr Chris Whitty (he's like the UK's Tony Fauci), has now twice been accosted in the streets by angry youths who, because of conspiracy theories and other misinformation online, were made to believe that Chris is evil. In this latest incident, two ignorant youths grabbed Chris Whitty around his neck, and held him in a neck hold, while he was taking a walk in a London park.
 
This is the danger of conspiracy theory and misinformation, that it makes people angry and portrays good people as evil. Misinformation is very toxic to civilized society.
 
I have seen web forums where the idea that Bill Gates and his global health foundation are the devil incarnate. Gates does excellent work in the health sphere, and among many other things, he is spending billions of his own money to eradicate polio globally, which kills and cripples children. He is really one of the greatest philanthropists there have even been.

 

Yet because of conspiracy theories, Gates has been cast as pure evil. Of course, only idiots would believe such conspiracy theories, but the trouble is, there are a lot of idiots out there, and this is why online lies and misinformation is becoming a critical problem.


Edited by Hip, 30 June 2021 - 01:57 PM.

  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 2
  • like x 1
  • Agree x 1

#810 geo12the

geo12the
  • Guest
  • 762 posts
  • -211

Posted 30 June 2021 - 03:25 PM

post #803, geo12the: "Who the hell are the regular people being arrested? Again crying wolf."

 

Mind, as usual, was spreading his typical misinformation, disinformation, lies. and conspiracy-Faux-news. And, to make matters worse for himself in terms of veracity, the dolt didn't even check the internet first to see that there weren't any examples of the BS he's been spouting, but just went right ahead vomiting rubbish and thus proving himself to be a fool of the highest caliber.

 

 

(This message was brought to you by Deer Leader, who warned of stagflation many months ago)

 

Can you find examples of overreach if you search the internet? Sure. There are isolated examples of stupidity in enforcing these rules. There is lots of stupidity in the world today. Bottom line is there is not an epidemic of arrests we need to be "angry" about. 


  • Ill informed x 1
  • dislike x 1
  • like x 1





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: coronavirus, covid-19

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users