• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
* * - - - 3 votes

Advice that masks don't help for coronavirus woefully wrong?

masks coronavirus

  • Please log in to reply
825 replies to this topic

#811 Mind

  • Life Member, Moderator, Secretary
  • 18,114 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 01 January 2023 - 08:43 PM

Do you have any RCT studies to provide in regards to variable R-value and the usefulness of masks?


  • Good Point x 2

#812 Hip

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,679 posts
  • -180
  • Location:UK

Posted 02 January 2023 - 01:54 AM

Do you have any RCT studies to provide in regards to variable R-value and the usefulness of masks?

 

How does that relate to my previous post? That post was to try to provide some understanding of how exponential systems work.

 

I see no evidence of understanding, or even curiosity about the subject, which means it is not possible to appreciate why either masking's success in curbing an pandemic outbreak (as we saw with delta) or its failure to do so (as we saw with omicron) is a direct measure of the viral stopping power of masks, as you were trying to imply it was.

 

This is what I am trying to explain: that your measures are wrong. You cannot measure masking efficacy via prevention of outbreaks, because exponential systems are highly non-linear. There is no proportionality.

 

 

 

If you want evidence for the efficacy of masks, just go to Google and search for studies (rather than using clickbait conspiracy theory websites). Enter a search phrase like: efficacy of masks covid systematic review.


Edited by Hip, 02 January 2023 - 01:55 AM.

  • Pointless, Timewasting x 4
  • Agree x 1

#813 geo12the

  • Guest
  • 694 posts
  • -182

Posted 04 January 2023 - 09:30 PM

I was recently talking on the phone with my sister who is horribly sick with some super nasty upper respiratory virus which she also passed on to our elderly mother. They have been testing neg for COVID so it could be Flu or RSV or COVID (the store bought tests are not that reliable) but who knows. One thing she said to me was "I guess I shouldn't have stopped wearing a mask". What I told her was "Look wear a mask where it makes sense. If you go to Target wear a mask, If you go to the grocery store wear a mask. If you are at a friends house and they are not sick don't wear a mask. If you are outside don't wear a mask". At the end of the day it's common sense. The science shows masks work. Yes there are differences in efficacy depending on the kind of mask, so make sure to wear a good N95 or KN95 mask. It's not a burden to wear a mask at Target. Or the supermarket. At the risk of jinxing myself, I haven't gotten sick since the pandemic started. I do think my husband and I had COVID in January of 2020, about 3 months before COVID hit the news, which I posted about here. But since then we have not gotten sick once (watch I will get COVID now) because we mask up when it makes sense and got vaxed and boosted. My relatives who are unvaccinated and don't wear masks have all gotten COVID multiple times and all just had the flu. I personally HATE being sick. I am miserable even with a cold and come close to having panic attacks when my sinuses are completely congested. If wearing a mask at Target will save you from catching a miserable virus why not just wear a mask at Target? I don't get it.  

 


  • Ill informed x 1
  • like x 1

#814 pamojja

  • Guest
  • 2,668 posts
  • 645
  • Location:Austria

Posted 05 January 2023 - 12:22 PM

My relatives who are unvaccinated and don't wear masks have all gotten COVID multiple times and all just had the flu.

 
I and my brother are the only in my familly, who have been unvaccinated and didn't get sick with anything at all. All other luckily with the only exception of my old father got Covid at least twice.
 
Same at my working-place (about 30 co-workers): All vaccinated got Covid at least twice too, only 1 other (as far as I know) and me not once. We all had to wear N95 face masks. The only co-worker who insultetd me for not risking the gene-therapy, ended up with long-covid. Sickness leaves are soaring in my co-workers. And almost all my co-workers already had sickness leave the day after having a shot.
 
All of our clients - homeless, all of them whenever allowed not wearing any mask - and outnumbering our co-workers multiple times, also never got covid. Nor die anyone I know personally end up in the hosipital or died of covid.
 
 

I personally HATE being sick. I am miserable even with a cold and come close to having panic attacks when my sinuses are completely congested. If wearing a mask at Target will save you from catching a miserable virus why not just wear a mask at Target? I don't get it.


Can't even remember my last real flu (55 now). My last sickness leave was 3 days in 2006 for a rather mild feverish cold. Interesstingly with all Covid-comorbities (prediabetes, COPD 1, CVD) on board.

 

I however don't weaken my imunity at all. And I do understand that with weak psychological resilience one is primed for each and every sickness through the nocebo effect allone. And additional immunity straining treatments, like mRNA and masks. I do get it.


Edited by pamojja, 05 January 2023 - 12:25 PM.


#815 Mind

  • Life Member, Moderator, Secretary
  • 18,114 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 05 January 2023 - 06:15 PM

I was recently talking on the phone with my sister who is horribly sick with some super nasty upper respiratory virus which she also passed on to our elderly mother. They have been testing neg for COVID so it could be Flu or RSV or COVID (the store bought tests are not that reliable) but who knows. One thing she said to me was "I guess I shouldn't have stopped wearing a mask". What I told her was "Look wear a mask where it makes sense. If you go to Target wear a mask, If you go to the grocery store wear a mask. If you are at a friends house and they are not sick don't wear a mask. If you are outside don't wear a mask". At the end of the day it's common sense. The science shows masks work. Yes there are differences in efficacy depending on the kind of mask, so make sure to wear a good N95 or KN95 mask. It's not a burden to wear a mask at Target. Or the supermarket. At the risk of jinxing myself, I haven't gotten sick since the pandemic started. I do think my husband and I had COVID in January of 2020, about 3 months before COVID hit the news, which I posted about here. But since then we have not gotten sick once (watch I will get COVID now) because we mask up when it makes sense and got vaxed and boosted. My relatives who are unvaccinated and don't wear masks have all gotten COVID multiple times and all just had the flu. I personally HATE being sick. I am miserable even with a cold and come close to having panic attacks when my sinuses are completely congested. If wearing a mask at Target will save you from catching a miserable virus why not just wear a mask at Target? I don't get it.  

 

I get it. The masks spread a culture of fear. They impair human social interaction. These things are bad for immune function. I prefer finding treatments and cures for disease instead of forcing people to live in fear and not see other human faces.

 

The masks mandates were a total failure as a pandemic response.

 

That being said, if you want to live in constant fear, wear a mask.


  • Good Point x 1

#816 geo12the

  • Guest
  • 694 posts
  • -182

Posted 06 January 2023 - 12:23 AM

I get it. The masks spread a culture of fear. They impair human social interaction. These things are bad for immune function. I prefer finding treatments and cures for disease instead of forcing people to live in fear and not see other human faces.

 

The masks mandates were a total failure as a pandemic response.

 

That being said, if you want to live in constant fear, wear a mask.

 

You are the one always complaining about your side being shamed and belittled yet you are the first, well actually the second,  to shame me for admitting I wear a mask at Target. I don't live in fear at all. I go out to work and interact with tons of people. Went to a small New Years eve dinner last weekend and my husband and I did not wear masks nor did anyone at the dinner. I don't wear at mask most of the time I work. For me it's not about fear it's about staying healthy. Wearing a mask at the supermarket or Target is not at all cumbersome for me and if it prevents me from getting a miserable respiratory virus it's well worth the minimal effort. 


  • Ill informed x 1
  • like x 1

#817 pamojja

  • Guest
  • 2,668 posts
  • 645
  • Location:Austria

Posted 06 January 2023 - 02:30 PM

You are the one always complaining about your side being shamed and belittled yet you are the first, well actually the second,  to shame me for admitting I wear a mask at Target.

 
Sorry, and you don't feel embarrased that here actually you started with this shaming. I only mirrored it back on your own, and Mind as a third.
 

..why not just wear a mask at Target? I don't get it.

 

Simply because if one doesn't weakens one's natural immunity 'on target', as you with masks, one in most cases isn't as much sick as you complained.


Edited by pamojja, 06 January 2023 - 02:39 PM.

  • Good Point x 2
  • Ill informed x 1

#818 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,194 posts
  • 483
  • Location:USA

Posted 06 January 2023 - 04:54 PM

You are the one always complaining about your side being shamed and belittled yet you are the first, well actually the second,  to shame me for admitting I wear a mask at Target. I don't live in fear at all. I go out to work and interact with tons of people. Went to a small New Years eve dinner last weekend and my husband and I did not wear masks nor did anyone at the dinner. I don't wear at mask most of the time I work. For me it's not about fear it's about staying healthy. Wearing a mask at the supermarket or Target is not at all cumbersome for me and if it prevents me from getting a miserable respiratory virus it's well worth the minimal effort. 

 

Just out of curiosity, do you work on-site or at home?

 

I ask because I can't tell you the irritation of having people that don't work, are retired, or work from home lecture me that I should have no issues at all wearing a mask 8+ hours a day.  Staying at home with no mask and only wearing one when you venture out to the grocery store is quite a bit different than wearing one the majority of your waking hours 5 days a week.

 

 

 

 


  • Good Point x 2
  • Cheerful x 1

#819 Mind

  • Life Member, Moderator, Secretary
  • 18,114 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 06 January 2023 - 06:03 PM

Of course, most of the irritation is not with people wearing a mask because they live in fear of viruses. People have all kinds of fears, justified or not.

 

Most of it stems from the mask mandates. I am still shocked at the vitriol and contempt for people who resisted the masks mandates. It was NOT "you do you" or "live and let live". It was DO THIS or we are going to destroy your life. All the finger-pointing, all the screaming, all the attacks. It was a scary sight to see. When I see someone with a mask on, it reminds of this sordid chapter in human history and also reminds me there are still people in positions of influence trying to force people to wear masks "forever". I don't believe your libertarian postings here, sorry. I believe that the people who love wearing their masks, will instantly return to all of the vicious attacks, the minute some "health" bureaucrat starts demanding it.

 

Secondly, the masks did NOTHING to stop the spread of COVID and it is impossible to avoid respiratory illnesses without locking yourself in your home and constantly wearing a full hazmat suit. It disturbs me that people think they can avoid viruses. Viruses are constantly on us and in us. Viruses are in the air we breathe - every breath. Viruses are in nearly every piece of food we eat. Viruses are on everything we touch. Every bit of water on earth is loaded with viruses. Hundreds of millions of viral particles flow through a square meter of the atmosphere every day.

 

In China, they tried to avoid viruses for the last three years. It didn't work. They gave up. It was futile. Everyone in China is going to catch COVID, just like everyone else in the world. It is scary to think that the tyrannical and insane Chinese model of trying to avoid viruses forever, was fervently pushed in many parts of the world, including the U.S. Without the pushback from some citizens, we would all be tracked, tested, and forced to wear masks forever - as suggested in the article linked above.

 

The focus on tyrannical control measures (like masking everywhere forever) as the *best* method to fight disease, in particular, respiratory disease, has led to a lot of misery and division and it has taken focus and funding away from *curing* the disease - which is the win-win scenario everyone should be striving for.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Mind, 06 January 2023 - 06:18 PM.

  • Well Written x 2
  • Ill informed x 2

#820 geo12the

  • Guest
  • 694 posts
  • -182

Posted 06 January 2023 - 07:25 PM

Just out of curiosity, do you work on-site or at home?

 

I ask because I can't tell you the irritation of having people that don't work, are retired, or work from home lecture me that I should have no issues at all wearing a mask 8+ hours a day.  Staying at home with no mask and only wearing one when you venture out to the grocery store is quite a bit different than wearing one the majority of your waking hours 5 days a week.

 

I work at home and at a couple of different research and greenhouse locations. The outside the home situations are ones where I don't encounter a  large # of people in a small space and for that reason I don't wear a mask. But at the beginning of the pandemic I worked at a site that required mask use on site. I didn't think it was that hard but can appreciate having to wear a mask 8 house at a time can be more challenging. 



#821 geo12the

  • Guest
  • 694 posts
  • -182

Posted 06 January 2023 - 07:31 PM

 I believe that the people who love wearing their masks, will instantly return to all of the vicious attacks, the minute some "health" bureaucrat starts demanding it.

 

 

 

You are afraid someone wearing a mask will attack you for not doing so, so you preemptively attack them? Makes perfect sense. LOL


  • Pointless, Timewasting x 2
  • like x 1

#822 Daniel Cooper

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,194 posts
  • 483
  • Location:USA

Posted 06 January 2023 - 07:56 PM

I work at home and at a couple of different research and greenhouse locations. The outside the home situations are ones where I don't encounter a  large # of people in a small space and for that reason I don't wear a mask. But at the beginning of the pandemic I worked at a site that required mask use on site. I didn't think it was that hard but can appreciate having to wear a mask 8 house at a time can be more challenging. 

 

I do hardware design and am required to work on-site (for security reasons) and in any case need access to a fully equipped lab.

 

In spite of the fact that our facility had very low population density (about 66% were allowed to work at home), we were required to wear masks at all times when on site - because reason and science quickly take a back seat to dogmatism in situations like this.

 

9+ hour days were not uncommon.  Let me tell you, rebreathing your own humid dank breath for that many hours a day is no joy. And it's probably not exactly healthy for you either.


  • Well Written x 1
  • Cheerful x 1

#823 smithx

  • Guest
  • 1,374 posts
  • 446

Posted 07 January 2023 - 04:21 AM

Association between COVID-19 and consistent mask wearing during contact with others outside the household—A nested case–control analysis, November 2020–October 2021

https://onlinelibrar....1111/irv.13080
 

Results

COVID-19 was associated with not consistently wearing a mask (adjusted odds ratio [aOR] 1.49; 95% confidence interval [CI] [1.14, 1.95]). Compared with persons ≥14 days after mRNA vaccination who also reported always wearing a mask, COVID-19 was associated with being unvaccinated (aOR 5.94; 95% CI [3.04, 11.62]), not wearing a mask (aOR 1.62; 95% CI [1.07, 2.47]), or both unvaccinated and not wearing a mask (aOR 9.07; 95% CI [4.81, 17.09]).
Conclusions

Our findings indicate that consistent mask wearing can complement vaccination to reduce the risk of COVID-19.

 

 


  • Informative x 2
  • Pointless, Timewasting x 1
  • like x 1

#824 Mind

  • Life Member, Moderator, Secretary
  • 18,114 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 10 January 2023 - 09:41 PM

You are afraid someone wearing a mask will attack you for not doing so, so you preemptively attack them? Makes perfect sense. LOL

 

Saying someone is "living in fear" (of viruses), might have a negative connotation, but it is not incorrect. However, I can see how some might take offense to the statement.

 

I have never attacked anyone for wearing masks - only pointing out the futility...along with RCT studies indicating the masks are not a good pandemic response.

 

I am fearful about attacks from people wearing masks - BECAUSE IT HAPPENED. The attacks were widespread, vitriolic, condescending, and physically violent at times over the last couple of years. You can say I am "fearful" of future attacks. It don't consider that statement an "attack". It is true. It is a justified fear, based upon recent history.

 

One other thing, obviously, if there was a more deadly disease spreading around the world, no one would need to be beaten and threatened into isolating or wearing hazmat suits with respirators. If they saw their neighbors dropping dead and society collapsing, they would take measures to protect themselves. No mandates needed.


  • Good Point x 2

#825 Mind

  • Life Member, Moderator, Secretary
  • 18,114 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 10 January 2023 - 10:02 PM

Association between COVID-19 and consistent mask wearing during contact with others outside the household—A nested case–control analysis, November 2020–October 2021

https://onlinelibrar....1111/irv.13080
 

 

This is a much better designed study that previous ones with obvious flaws. I wonder what the results would have been if the study participants were followed for a longer period of time. No one can avoid viruses forever. In contrast to this study, everyone I know, whether or not consistently wearing masks, all got COVID. Recall the science writer who was fastidious about all of the methods to reduce exposure - still got COVID (after two years). She couldn't avoid people forever. She couldn't wear a mask forever in every situation. She couldn't avoid "the virus" forever.


  • Good Point x 1

#826 Mind

  • Life Member, Moderator, Secretary
  • 18,114 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 19 January 2023 - 04:55 PM

For people just joining this discussion.

 

Specially designed masks/respirators and hazmat suits "work" to block various sizes of particles. It's physics.

 

The general masking of the population did not "work" during this media-created COVID panic. COVID spread everywhere. There are multiple reasons for the abject failure which have been discussed throughout this thread.

 

A lot of the "masks work", studies were poorly done (I have called some of them "junk"). This one looked at county level data in the U.S., but has now been withdrawn because there have been "increased SARS-CoV2 cases in areas we originally analyzed". This is a limitation in many of the "masks work" studies - short term data. Everyone eventually ended up getting COVID, no matter if they wore masks or not. Look at Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc... where mask-compliance is extremely high...they are all getting COVID, same as everyone else.

 

I can't believe that at one point there were mask mandates for outdoor locations and that people were harassed, threatened, fined, and arrested for not wearing a mask outdoors. Many commentators said it looked more like an obsession with power and not anything like "public health". Considering the fact that the current administration in the U.S. is fighting tooth and nail to retain the power to mask people on airplanes, it looks more and more like a power play.

 

Recall that when the mask mandate for air travel ended - passengers were overjoyed - but public "health" officials in the U.S. said it would be a disaster and COVID would spread everywhere and everyone was in danger. The airplane masks mandate ended, and nothing happened. It was not a public health disaster.

 

 


  • Good Point x 1





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: masks, coronavirus

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users