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Melatonin


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#31

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:12 PM

Dream recall also tends to be somewhat lowered in people not getting enough sleep. I'd say that accounts for a good percentage of the population at the moment.

I always feel so new-agey when going into the subject of dreams. But sometimes it's hard to resist. Keeping a journal of dreams upon waking is the best way I can think of to improve recall. Certainly seems like a good first measure before resorting to potentially unneeded medication. For someone with little to no dream recall it usually starts out as just vague feelings scribbled on paper, but for most people the training usually can extend that at a fairly rapid pace.


I have not really had any dream recall in several decades. About 10 years I did a dream interpretation workshop and did actually remember a dream to interpret for that workshop. The mind does work in mysterious ways sometimes. If you really need to remember a dream it can happen.

I do have a vitamin b6 deficiency which explains why I haven't had any dream recall in so many years. I find that sometimes when I feel like I am tossing and turning instead of sleeping soundly I remember bits and pieces of stuff that I may or may not have been dreaming about or were just going over in my head. I think other people may find that if you can't sleep you find yourself thinking about or dreaming about whatever you are worried about while you toss in turn in bed. It is hard to say if it was dreaming or worrying.

For even more new age tips I think I read somewhever that if you sleep with a certain kind of crystal under your pillow it can help with your dreams.

http://www.handywerk...reampillows.htm

But dreams are interesting things to think about and analyze. Keeping a journal of dreams is a good thing.

They also recommend not moving around too much when you first wake up. I think that if you remain in the same position as you were in when you had the dream you may actually remember that dream a little better.

#32 ajnast4r

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:15 PM

random: i usually sleep enough, and sleep pretty well... but i rarely have any dream recal

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#33

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:45 PM

random: i usually sleep enough, and sleep pretty well... but i rarely have any dream recal


See, I am trying to tell you that this can be a sign of a deficiency.

PyrolurIA (potentially more than 20% of autistics -Pfieffer)

(up to 60% potentially per Dr. Woody McGuiness)



Symptoms of Pyroluria: (general, do not have to have all)

Body: Fatigues easily, thin except heavy waisted,

Brain: Anxious, Depressed, devastated by stress, reading disorders

Ears: Sensitivity to loud noises

Eyes: Light sensitivity

Skin: generally pale, body tans, face doesn’t

Sleep: more prone to disorders, “night person”, minimal dream recall

Stomach: don’t like to eat breakfast

Males: prone to rages/Females: up & down

This is only some of the symptoms.

#34 Shepard

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 10:23 PM

Yeah, man, as soon as I took care of my lead deficiency...I reached the top of my game.

#35 zoolander

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 10:40 PM

I have looked long and hard but still have not found any evidence of melatonin supplementation downregulating melatonin receptors.

Additionally, I have not found any evidence that melatonin supplementation effects endogenous melatonin release.

Has anyone found evidence for the above?

Besides the one study published in FASEB showing desensitisation of MCT2 melatonin receptors by endogenous melatonin secretion

#36 ajnast4r

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 02:24 AM

See, I am trying to tell you that this can be a sign of a deficiency.
This is only some of the symptoms.


i dont fatigue easy, i read fine, im muscular, im neither anxious nor depressed, i respond well to stress, my eyes are not sensative to light, i have tan skin, my whole body tans evenly, im a morning person, i have and love to eat breakfast, and i do not rage easily.

i appreciate what youre trying to do, if you bring this up in another thread im giong to email mods about it...

#37 paleo

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:05 AM

See, I am trying to tell you that this can be a sign of a deficiency.
This is only some of the symptoms.


i dont fatigue easy, i read fine, im muscular, im neither anxious nor depressed, i respond well to stress, my eyes are not sensative to light, i have tan skin, my whole body tans evenly, im a morning person, i have and love to eat breakfast, and i do not rage easily.

i appreciate what youre trying to do, if you bring this up in another thread im giong to email mods about it...


ajnas, I think I know how you feel now after the zinc thread! ortho, you make good points about certain vitamins, but remember that B6 deficiency is just a "possibility" among other things that may effect dream recall (or lack thereof).

I just want to add that in addition to all the things ajasnt has mentioned, I echo all of them (except morning person -- depending on the time) and I never have dream recall either. I definitely don't have a B6 deficiency as my diet is about 2/3 animal products.

It does take me a while to fall asleep, but that's because my melatonin is probably screwed up because i'm on the computer so late after dark, and then once i'm in bed I think waaaay too much because i've been through alot over the last several months and don't have a solid steady routine in my life presently. Not too mention that I have this weird thing with me that alot of the tunes I listen to in my car are in my head at night.

Everyone is different with respect to dreams and recall and there are alot of factors at play.

*Fixed formatting -Funk

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 27 June 2006 - 02:42 PM.


#38

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 02:36 PM

quoted from paleo
I definitely don't have a B6 deficiency as my diet is about 2/3 animal products.

That does not make any sense. I have a deficiency with vitamin b6 because my body produce pryrroles which bind up the zinc and vitamin b6 passing them out of my body without ever being able to use those nutrients. Diet has nothing to do with having a vitamin b6 deficiency. This nutrient is found in many many foods, but in small amounts.

I actually have to take 1000 times the recommended amount for b6. No food or foods can accomplish that for me without making me feel like a stuffed pig. This is a severe deficiency AND has nothing to do with diet.

Some people who have parts of their GI tract damaged or removed will have a problem with absorping b6 but that is because of a real problem with their GI tract only. You don't have a deficiency because of this issue.

quote from ajnast4r
i appreciate what youre trying to do, if you bring this up in another thread im giong to email mods about it...

I don't appreciate that you think threatening me is a way of showing your appreciation.

#39 Shepard

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:15 PM

I don't appreciate that you think threatening me is a way of showing your appreciation.


There is a certain etiquette involved in message board communication. Whatever you intentions, hitting multiple threads with the same basic message is discourteous to the rest of us.

#40 spins

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:18 PM

quote from ajnast4r
i appreciate what youre trying to do, if you bring this up in another thread im giong to email mods about it...

I don't appreciate that you think threatening me is a way of showing your appreciation.

Well if you didn't come across so patronising he wouldn't have reacted in the way he has. :)

I'm sure he's intelligent enough to make informed decisions about his diet and supplementation regime based on the available research without your help.

#41

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 03:53 PM

quote from ajnast4r
i appreciate what youre trying to do, if you bring this up in another thread im giong to email mods about it...

I don't appreciate that you think threatening me is a way of showing your appreciation.

Well if you didn't come across so patronising he wouldn't have reacted in the way he has. :)

I'm sure he's intelligent enough to make informed decisions about his diet and supplementation regime based on the available research without your help.


Paatronising? You are telling me how someone else feels? Is that your place to express someone else's feelings? (Why would YOU feel patronized by this thread? You shouldn't, so you can't be speaking about YOUR feelings.)

Who was I partonizing? Not you. But, you know that someone else felt patronized. It's considered dysfunctional behavior to think you know how someone else feels about something AND to speak up for that person. Are you saying this poster is not capable of speaking up for themselves? Obviously, you are speaking on their behalf, so you feel it is your place to speak up for them. That implies you don't think they can do this themselves.

"I'm sure he's intelligent enough to make informed decisions about his diet and supplementation regime based on the available research without your help."

But they need YOUR help now because they can't speak up for themselves. Why do YOU think this poster can't speak up for themselves but somehow needs your help? Can you explain that to me? They need your help to tell them how they feel (patronized) but don't need my help because they are intelligent enough somehow. That is some interesting perspective you have.

NO ONE ever needs another person to tell them what they are feeling. Trying to tell someone how they feel is trying to manipulate that person. It is inappropriate behavior to speak of another person's feelings.

Why not let the poster speak on their own behalf and don't assume they need your help. You seem to assume they don't need my help so why do you assume they need your help about their feelings and expressing those feelings?

Can you actually stick to the topic and get off the feelings?
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#42 ajnast4r

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:30 PM

and back to melatonin... melatonin acts weird on me. taking melatonin or 5htp before bed, gives me greater dream recal... but does NOT give me more refreshing sleep.

i actually found supplemental melatonin increased the sensativity of my hearing so drastically that i could not sleep, i would wake up every hour to the slightest noises. doses of 5htp greater than 50mg also did the same thing.

#43 paleo

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:52 PM

and back to melatonin... melatonin acts weird on me. taking melatonin or 5htp before bed, gives me greater dream recal... but does NOT give me more refreshing sleep.

i actually found supplemental melatonin increased the sensativity of my hearing so drastically that i could not sleep, i would wake up every hour to the slightest noises. doses of 5htp greater than 50mg also did the same thing.


Interesting, would free form Tryptophan do the same thing? Also, is it really true that tryptophan is now legally sold in the USA? If so, could you provide a website for a retailer, although I guess it would be a problem at the border.

#44

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 06:15 PM

I find that after supplementing vitamin b6 for some time now I seem to sleep more soundly. I just thought of myself as a light sleeper. But now I seem to be "out cold" for the most part when I'm asleep. I don't wake up feeling tired either. I seem to feel more refreshed now even if I go to bed later than normal.

Serotonin levels do relate to sensitivity to noise.

http://www.causeof.org/topics_sero.htm

Serotonin Levels

General Effects

"This neurotransmitter regulates

· the onset of sleep,

· sensory perception,

· mood and depression,

· body temperature,

· hyperacusis (noise sensitivity)…

· photophobia (sensitivity to light)

Low levels may contribute to muscle weakness and stiffness experienced by Fibromyalgia sufferers."

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome / M.E. / Fibromyalgia Information, Treatment & Support

If you have low serotonin levels it is not a good idea to supplement tyrptohan because it is possible that your lacking in vitamin b6 which converts that tryptophan into serotonin. Tryptophan does cause some toxicity. So, if you are low in b6 you are only increasing the toxic effects of tryptophan on your body.

I believe tryptophan is now sold in the US. That ban has been lifted somehow. Not sure how hard it may be to find, but it is pricey.

#45 ajnast4r

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 08:37 PM

paleo,

yes, in most people tryptophan will do the same thing if taken correctly (with b's, c, and simple carbs... on an empty stomach). tryptophan is legal, but if you want the super pure stuff... its expensive. the only brand i know of that is usp grade AND tests for peak-X(the stuff that made people sick), is fth nutraceuticals... http://www.fth-inc.com/
i used their tryptophan for quite some time, and they are the only brand i would ever take. the raw powder is considerably cheaper than the pills for whatever reason... and im sure you could get it across the border with no problems.

ortho,

b6 supplementation creates a pretty drastic increase in serotonin levels... so thats not supprising. good quality tryptophan in moderate amounts does not cause any toxicity at all that im aware of, i dont know where you got that from.

#46

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:15 PM

In addition, tryptophan catabolism in the brain and peripheral tissues produces toxic chemicals which stimulate excitatory neurotransmitter pathways.

http://www.ceri.com/fftrypto.htm

That toxicity is only in those deficient in b6.

In people who are even marginally vitamin B6 deficient, tryptophan may be rapidly degraded into mildly toxic metabolites such as hydroxykynurenine, xanthurenic acid and hydroxyanthranilic acid.

http://intelegen.com...answer_to_p.htm

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#47 nootropicinfo

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 01:36 PM

When in Antigua I was offered a sleep aid. She told me it contained valarian, 5htp, b6, melatonin, calcium and mercury. She also offered taurine tablets.

These definately worked. I'm just hoping she meant 'magnesium'.

I noticed slightly more vivid dreams (with recall obviously) but very mild groggy feeling in the morning. I woke, say, a couple of times each night I took them. Perhaps it was just the mercury though.




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