7 replies to this topic

[sprinkles]

Adam, it is of great significance that you have healed yourself, as I have recently healed my own self, as well. In this process I came to the realization that large quantities of drug use are unnecessary, potentially dangerous, and based on faulty assumptions. Now I would like to design a nootropic regime that is a) inexpensive, b) relatively effective, and c) sane. This might include hydergine, and I was wondering if you could write your current opinions on this substance as you have researched these substances far more than most people.

[doug123]

Adam, it is of great significance that you have healed yourself, as I have recently healed my own self, as well.  In this process I came to the realization that large quantities of drug use are unnecessary, potentially dangerous, and based on faulty assumptions.  Now I would like to design a nootropic regime that is a) inexpensive, b) relatively effective, and c) sane.  This might include hydergine, and I was wondering if you could write your current opinions on this substance as you have researched these substances far more than most people.

First, you need to stop taking dope. Once you have been off dope or other neurotoxins for a few months, there might be ways to repair some of the damage.

I read that you are an ex heavy user of MDMA, so I will copy paste an earlier reply I wrote to someone else. I would be more detailed, but I need to get to the library SOON so that i can study for a midterm I have next week.

Folks who are recovering from heavy drug abuse are similar to elderly folks with mental deterioration; drug abuse, in many ways, accelerates the degeneration of the brain.

Curr Med Res Opin. 1989;11(6):380-9.

Ergoloid mesylates ('Hydergine') in the treatment of mental deterioration in the elderly: a 6-month double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.

Rouy JM, Douillon AM, Compan B, Wolmark Y.

Centre de Soins, C.H.U.R., Nime, France.

A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was carried out in 97 elderly patients with age-related mental deterioration to assess the efficacy of ergoloid mesylates in improving their symptoms. Patients were allocated at random to receive either 4.5 mg ergoloid mesylates per day or a matching placebo tablet and were followed-up for 6 months after the start of treatment. Clinical examinations were performed by the doctor, using the EACG rating scale (a French version of the Sandoz Clinical Assessment Geriatric scale), and by the nurse, using the NOSIE scale, when patients entered the trial and repeated after 2, 4 and 6 months. Changes in the factors (symptom groups) covered by these scales were subjected to statistical analysis. After 6-months' treatment, a statistically significant difference in favour of the ergoloid mesylates group was observed for cognitive deficits (p less than 0.05), anxiety and mood depression (p less than 0.01), unsociability (p less than 0.01), retardation (p less than 0.05) and irritability (p less than 0.001). Treatment was very well tolerated. It was also observed that there was a progressive increase in efficacy throughout the trial; this indicates that treatment with ergoloid mesylates in patients with mental deterioration should be long-term.
Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 2651014 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Hydergine FAS (only QHI in the UK sells the FAS form; FAS stands for facilitated absorption system).

You should consider taking ALCAR at least 2 grams a day, on an empty stomach.

If you do purchase ALCAR online, that it is from a reputable supplier, such as Jarrow Formulas (they use Sigma Tau's ST-200 ), NOW! foods (they use Lonza's L-Carnipure® Acetyl-L-Carnitine). If you know how to encapsulate your own supplements, you can save a ton of money, without sacrificing quality (if you have good raw material sources -- not necessarily the cheapest in all cases!). Why should an ex-drug addict take high dose ALCAR? It restores the functionality of aged (or in a drug addicts case "damaged") dopamine receptor systems.

Life Sci. 1994;54(17):1205-14.

Acetyl-L-carnitine affects aged brain receptorial system in rodents.

Castorina M, Ferraris L.

Institute for Research on Senescence, Sigma-Tau, Pomezia, Rome, Italy.

Acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR), the acetyl ester of carnitine, is regarded as a compound of considerable interest because of its capacity to counteract several physiological and pathological modifications typical of brain ageing processes. In particular, it has been demonstrated that ALCAR can counteract the age-dependent reduction of several receptors in the central nervous system of rodents, such as the NMDA receptorial system, the Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) receptors, those of glucocorticoids, neurotransmitters and others, thereby enhancing the efficiency of synaptic transmission, which is considerably slowed down by ageing. The present review thus postulates the importance of ALCAR administration in preserving and/or facilitating the functionality of carnitines, the concentrations of which are diminished in the brain of old animals.

Publication Types:

* Review


PMID: 8164502 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Neurosci Res. 1991 Nov;30(3):555-9.

Effect of acetyl-L-carnitine on the dopaminergic system in aging brain.

Sershen H, Harsing LG Jr, Banay-Schwartz M, Hashim A, Ramacci MT, Lajtha A.

Center for Neurochemistry, Nathan S. Kline Institute for Psychiatric Research, Orangeburg, New York 10962.

We studied the effect of acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR) on dopamine release and the effect of long-term acetyl-L-carnitine treatment on age-related changes in striatal dopamine receptors and brain amino acid levels. In striatal tissue that had been incubated with [3H]dopamine, acetyl-L-carnitine increased the release of [3H]dopamine evoked by electrical stimulation. In striatal tissue from aged mice administered acetyl-L-carnitine for 3 months, the release of [3H]dopamine evoked by electrical stimulation was higher than that of its aged control; the release after a second stimulation was similar in the two groups. There was a significant decline in the number of D1 striatal dopamine receptors with age. The Bmax was 51% lower in 1.5-year-old mice than in 4-month-old animals. Administration of acetyl-L-carnitine for 3 months diminished the reduction in the binding of [3H]SCH-23390. [3H]Spiperone binding to D2 receptors was not decreased with age and was not affected by acetyl-L-carnitine treatment. Age-related decreases in levels of several amino acids were observed in several brain regions. Acetyl-L-carnitine lessened the reduction in the level of taurine only in the striatum. The findings confirm the multiple effects of acetyl-L-carnitine in brain, and suggest that its administration can have a positive effect on age-related changes in the dopaminergic system.

PMID: 1839317 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Next, if you are taking ALCAR in high doses, it is smart to also take high dose R-alpha-lipoic acid. I carry the highly bio-available form GeroNova developed called RLA-MCT25 at nootropikshop.com. To achieve the anti-aging-therapeutic-brain-regeneration effect, I would suggest 800mg RLA-MCT25 three times a day. This, in combination with high dose ALCAR (both taken on an empty stomach) should also have brain rejuvenation effects.

See this as well to see the potential benefits of Hydergine.

Peace.

[doug123]

I meant final. Not midterm...often when I tryy to edit posts, I get a bunch of weird code..they need to fix that...it looks like that error will stay...

[sprinkles]

I don't know where you hear this from - but it's not true. Adam, you're smarter than this - please stop making false accusations. People have done this to you, and i would think that you have learned from this. It's simply wrong.

[doug123]

I don't know where you hear this from - but it's not true.  Adam, you're smarter than this - please stop making false accusations.  People have done this to you, and i would think that you have learned from this.  It's simply wrong.

You just have to state something is incorrect. It is not a false accusation, it's just a misunderstanding. It's hard to keep all of the screen names straight. If I knew who you really are, I wouldn't have made the mistake. It's easy to mix up screen names. Take it easy.

Why are you interested in Hydergine? For what purpose? Peace.

Edit: I mixed you up with this new person:

http://www.imminst.o...=169&t=10922&s= wild2side and sprinkes...don't sound too similar I admit...but that's who I mixed you up with, peace.

Edited by nootropikamil, 11 June 2006 - 01:37 AM.

[sprinkles]

Just for cognitive enhancement. I took Hydergine a few years ago for a brief period of time and thought it produced some noticeable effects. Yeah, I have Alcar and will start to take it again. It truly is a good supplement and i'm rather uncertain why I had stopped.

So, do you think Hydergine is beneficial for a young adult?

It's fine - no problem. The comment just caught me off guard. I did mess with other drugs quite heavily, in the recent past(for a few months), but I have stopped those.

Edited by sprinkles, 11 June 2006 - 05:37 AM.

[doug123]

[quote]Just for cognitive enhancement.  I took Hydergine a few years ago for a brief period of time and thought it produced some noticeable effects.  Yeah, I have Alcar and will start to take it again.  It truly is a good supplement and i'm rather uncertain why I had stopped.

So, do you think Hydergine is beneficial for a young adult?[/quote]

Never underestimate the power of the placebo effect:

[quote name='http://skepdic.com/placebo.html']Doctors in one study successfully eliminated warts by painting them with a brightly colored, inert dye and promising patients the warts would be gone when the color wore off. In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they could produce dilation of the airways by simply telling people they were inhaling a bronchiodilator, even when they weren't. Patients suffering pain after wisdom-tooth extraction got just as much relief from a fake application of ultrasound as from a real one, so long as both patient and therapist thought the machine was on. Fifty-two percent of the colitis patients treated with placebo in 11 different trials reported feeling better -- and 50 percent of the inflamed intestines actually looked better when assessed with a sigmoidoscope ("The Placebo Prescription" by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000).*[/quote]

Hydergine definately protects the brain. I think Hydergine protects the brain and can restore some damaged parts of the brain back to normal. An otherwise intelligent individual probably would not know the difference with or without it. If you can spare the cash, it seems to be safe. I would assume being in excellent physical shape (ie excercising at least 40 minutes a few times a week) would confer more benefits to a healthy individual than Hydergine. It's kind of like asking someone "should I brush my teeth two or three times a day" The answer would depend on how you brush, what toothpaste you use, your dental history, etc.

I take Hydergine FAS mg/day. But I also excercise a lot; it's up to you whether to take it. What is your budget? What else are you currently taking?

[sprinkles]

I was planning on running something like this below, with the possible addition of Hydergine, but as of right now i'm not on anything. I don't really care for money so I don't have a set budget per say.

Modafanil 200mg
Aniracetam 750mg x2
Alpha GCP 750mg x2
Bacopa 500mg morning

I agree that physical shape and well being are probably more beneficial than any drug. My first love was bodybuilding which instilled in me a great understanding on this aspect of life.

Edited by sprinkles, 12 June 2006 - 05:21 AM.