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Drexler responds to Smalley


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#1 Bruce Klein

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 01:18 PM


Rumblings in the Nano World!


Posted Image
Eric Drexler

Posted Image
Richard Smalley



An Open Letter to Richard Smalley From Eric Drexler

Prof. Smalley:

I have written this open letter to correct your public misrepresentation of
my work.

As you know, I introduced the term "nanotechnology" in the mid-1980s to
describe advanced capabilities based on molecular assemblers: proposed
devices able to guide chemical reactions by positioning reactive molecules
with atomic precision. Since "nanotechnology" is now used label diverse
current activities, I have attempted to minimize confusion by relabeling the
longer term goal "molecular manufacturing". The consequences of molecular
manufacturing are widely understood to be enormous, posing opportunities and
dangers of first-rank importance to the long-term security of the United
States and the world. Theoretical studies of its implementation and
capabilities are therefore of more than academic interest, and are akin to
pre-Sputnik studies of spaceflight, or to pre-Manhattan-Project calculations
regarding nuclear chain reactions.

You have attempted to dismiss my work in this field by misrepresenting it.
>From what I hear of a press conference at the recent NNI conference, you
continue to do so. In particular, you have described molecular assemblers as
having multiple "fingers" that manipulate individual atoms and suffer from
so-called "fat finger" and "sticky finger" problems, and you have dismissed
their feasibility on this basis [1]. I find this puzzling because, like
enzymes and ribosomes, proposed assemblers neither have nor need these
"Smalley fingers" [2]. The task of positioning reactive molecules simply
doesn't require them.

I have a twenty year history of technical publications in this area [3 - 12]
and consistently describe systems quite unlike the straw man you attack. My
proposal is, and always has been, to guide the chemical synthesis of complex
structures by mechanically positioning reactive molecules, not by
manipulating individual atoms. This proposal has been defended successfully
again and again, in journal articles, in my MIT doctoral thesis, and before
scientific audiences around the world. It rests on well-established physical
principles.

The impossibility of "Smalley fingers" has raised no concern in the research
community because these fingers solve no problems and thus appear in no
proposals. Your reliance on this straw-man attack might lead a thoughtful
observer to suspect that no one has identified a valid criticism of my work.
For this I should, perhaps, thank you.

You apparently fear that my warnings of long-term dangers [13] will hinder
funding of current research, stating that "We should not let this
fuzzy-minded nightmare dream scare us away from nanotechnology....NNI should
go forward" [14]. However, I have from the beginning argued that the
potential for abuse of advanced nanotechnologies makes vigorous research by
the U.S and its allies imperative [13]. Many have found these arguments
persuasive. In an open discussion, I believe they will prevail. In contrast,
your attempt to calm the public through false claims of impossibility will
inevitably fail, placing your colleagues at risk of a destructive backlash.

Your misdirected arguments have needlessly confused public discussion of
genuine long-term security concerns. If you value the accuracy of
information used in decisions of importance to national and global security,
I urge you to seek some way to help set the record straight. Endorsing calls
for an independent scientific review of molecular manufacturing concepts
[15] would be constructive.

A scientist whose research I respect has observed that "when a scientist
says something is possible, they're probably underestimating how long it
will take. But if they say it's impossible, they're probably wrong." The
scientist quoted is, of course, yourself [16].

K. Eric Drexler
Chairman, Foresight Institute

----------------------------

1. Smalley, R. E. (2001) Of chemistry, love and nanobots - How soon will we
see the nanometer-scale robots envisaged by K. Eric Drexler and other
molecular nanotechologists? The simple answer is never. Scientific American,
September, 68-69.


2. Drexler, K. E., D. Forrest, R. A. Freitas Jr., J. S. Hall, N. Jacobstein,
T. McKendree, R. Merkle, C. Peterson (2001) A Debate About Assemblers.
.

3. Drexler, K. E. (1981) Molecular engineering: An approach to the
development of general capabilities for molecular manipulation. Proc. Natnl.
Acad. Sci. U.S.A.. 78:5275-5278.


4. Drexler, K. E. (1987) Nanomachinery: Atomically precise gears and
bearings. IEEE Micro Robots and Teleoperators Workshop. Hyannis,
Massachusetts: IEEE.

5. Drexler, K. E., and J. S. Foster. (1990) Synthetic tips. Nature. 343:600.

6. Drexler, K. E. (1991) Molecular tip arrays for molecular imaging and
nanofabrication. Journal of Vacuum Science and Technology-B. 9:1394-1397.

7. Drexler K. E., (1991) Molecular Machinery and Manufacturing with
Applications to Computation. MIT doctoral thesis.

8. Drexler, K. E. (1992) Nanosystems: Molecular Machinery, Manufacturing,
and Computation. New York: John Wiley & Sons.


9. Drexler, K. E. (1992) Molecular Directions in Nanotechnology.
Nanotechnology (2:113).

10. Drexler, K. E. (1994) Molecular machines: physical principles and
implementation strategies. Annual Review of Biophysics and Biomolecular
Structure (23:337-405).

11. Drexler, K. E. (1995) Molecular manufacturing: perspectives on the
ultimate limits of fabrication. Phil. Trans. R. Soc. London A (353:323-331).

12. Drexler, K. E. (1999) Building molecular machine systems. Trends in
Biotechnology, 17: 5-7.


13. Drexler, K. E. (1986) Engines of Creation: The Coming Era of
Nanotechnology. New York: Anchor Press/Doubleday.


14. Smalley, R. E. (2000) quoted in: W. Schulz, Crafting A National
Nanotechnology Effort. Chemical & Engineering News, October 16.


15. Peterson, C. L. Testimony before the Committee on Science, U.S. House of
Representatives, 9 April 2003.


16. Smalley, R. E. (2000) quoted in N. Thompson, Downsizing:
Nanotechnology---Why you should sweat the small stuff. The Washington
Monthly Online, October.


#2 Bruce Klein

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 01:26 PM

Holy Cow! What an amazing letter.

Join us this Sunday afternoon (Apr 20) to discuss this further in the Scheduled Chat:

Controlling Runaway Nanotech
Immortality Institute Online Chat :: Sun. Apr 20th 2003
Location: Cyberspace - http://www.imminst.org/chat

On Apr 20th 2003 at 8:00 PM EST the Immortality Institute will hold a moderated chat to discuss the recent congressional hearing which addressed public concerns about nanotechnology. Fears of potentially deadly nanotechnology voiced by computer scientist Bill Joy prompted the U.S. House Committee on Science of the U.S. House of Representatives to hold a hearing on April 9, 2003 to "examine the societal implications of nanotechnology and H.R. 766, the Nanotechnology Research and Development Act of 2002."

More: http://www.imminst.o...=ST&f=63&t=1091

#3 chubtoad

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 10:48 PM

http://www.iop.org/E...urnal/0957-4484

Nanotechnology pioneer slays “grey goo” myths

Eric Drexler, known as the father of nanotechnology, today (Wednesday, 9th June 2004) publishes a paper that admits that self-replicating machines are not vital for large-scale molecular manufacture, and that nanotechnology-based fabrication can be thoroughly non-biological and inherently safe. Talk of runaway self-replicating machines, or “grey goo”, which he first cautioned against in his book Engines of Creation in 1986, has spurred fears that have long hampered rational public debate about nanotechnology. Writing in the Institute of Physics journal Nanotechnology, Drexler slays the myth that molecular manufacture must use dangerous self-replicating machines.

“Runaway replicators, while theoretically possible according to the laws of physics, cannot be built with today’s nanotechnology toolset,” says Dr. Drexler, founder of the Foresight Institute, in California, and Senior Research Fellow of the Molecular Engineering Research Institute (MERI). He continued: “Self-replicating machines aren't necessary for molecular nanotechnology, and aren’t part of current development plans.”

The paper, Safe Exponential Manufacturing by Chris Phoenix, Director of Research of the Center for Responsible Nanotechnology, (CRN) and Dr. K. Eric Drexler, also warns that scaremongering over remote scenarios such as “grey goo” is taking attention away from serious safety concerns, such as a deliberate abuse of the technology.

Phoenix said: “Runaway replication would only be the product of a deliberate and difficult engineering process, not an accident. Far more serious, however, is the possibility that a large-scale and convenient manufacturing capacity could be used to make powerful non-replicating weapons in unprecedented quantity, leading to an arms race or war. Policy investigation into the effects of molecular nanotechnology should consider deliberate abuse as a primary concern, and runaway replication as a more distant issue.”

In 1986, Drexler described a powerful manufacturing system. This “assembler” would use robots the size of bacteria to join individual molecules into products. Assemblers would be highly productive, because small things can move quickly. The products would be precise and strong because molecules are small and uniform, and form strong bonds.

For all these reasons, this idea was attractive. However, Drexler also described a danger scenario. A robotic molecular manufacturing system could be directed to build a copy of itself. If someone built a tiny, self-contained manufacturing system that had all the directions for building a copy of itself, and had all the equipment needed to use biomass as raw materials, and could move around, then the system could self-replicate and spread. If it had no built-in limits, then this complex system could, in theory, lead to a worst-case scenario of runaway replicators, popularly called grey goo.’

Science fiction writers focused on this idea, and ‘grey goo’ became closely associated with nanotechnology, spreading a serious misconception about molecular manufacturing systems and diverting attention from more pressing concerns. This new paper shows why that focus is wrong.

The authors explain why self-replication, contrary to previous understanding, is unnecessary for building an efficient and effective molecular manufacturing system. Instead of building lots of tiny, complex, free-floating robots to manufacture products, it will be more practical to use simple robot-arms in larger factories, like today’s assembly lines. A robot-arm pulled from a factory would be as inert as a light bulb pulled from its socket. And the factory as a whole would be no more mobile than a desktop printer, besides requiring a supply of purified raw materials to build anything. Even the process of developing the factories would not make anything remotely like a runaway replicator - the early machines would be tools, unable to operate by themselves.



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#4 arrogantatheist

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 09:12 AM

The key point in allocating funding is that even if self replicating nanomachines are possible you want to be the one in control of them.

If we should realize anything form the last 100 years of warfare it is that technological advantages can disappear in literally 5-10 years. The United States will be very lucky if it can remain in the technological lead at all in the coming 50 years. Stopping research in areas would just ensure a rapid demise.

It would be the exact same as not researching machine guns because they are 'too dangerous'. I can guaruntee they will be dangerous if you have none of your own when the time comes:).




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