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If most viruses cause disease, how would you avoid them?

viruses disease

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#1 Hip

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 04:37 AM


Dozens of common viruses that transmit between humans are linked to nasty and serious chronic diseases. 

 

For example, common viruses like Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), cytomegalovirus, Kaposi's sarcoma-associated herpesvirus, herpes simplex, coxsackievirus B1 to B6, echovirus, adenovirus 36, parvovirus B19 and bornavirus have all been found in patients with chronic diseases such as type 1 diabetes, cancer, atherosclerosis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, motor neuron disease, multiple sclerosis, heart disease, and so on.

 

 

Many of these viruses are highly prevalent in human beings. For example, EBV is found in around 90% of adults, cytomegalovirus in around 60%, parvovirus B19 in 60%, coxsackievirus B in 55%. Refs: 1 2 3 4   
 
This is because humans are social animals, and we readily transmit these viruses to each other, especially living in crowded urban environments. Most of these viruses once caught cannot be eradicated from the body (at least not by current medical technology); they remain in the body for life, sometimes as low-level smoldering infections.   
 
Some viruses have been proven to cause diseases (for example, EBV is proven to cause the cancer nasopharyngeal carcinoma). In other cases there is a link or association between a virus and a disease, but it is not yet proven that the virus causes the disease. For example EBV is strongly linked to multiple sclerosis (MS), but it's not yet proven that EBV causes MS (though it most likely will be proven soon).  
 
 
So at the moment, we have suggestive evidence that most chronic diseases may be caused by common viruses in circulation, but this is not yet proven.
 
But for the sake of argument, let's say that in future we did prove that most chronic diseases are caused by viruses. If you knew that to be the case, what would you do, as a longevity enthusiast, to avoid getting infected with these viruses? Because a nasty chronic disease triggered by a virus can seriously affect your healthspan and lifespan.
 
Most of these common viruses are spread by saliva and respiratory secretions, so can be picked up by normal social contact, especially close social contact, like sharing a bathroom or kitchen. And especially by deep kissing your girlfriend or boyfriend, which shares saliva (these viruses are often found in the saliva). 
 
So if you wanted to avoid contracting these infections, what would you do? Would you start wearing mask in public, and do this consistently for most of your life? That would be very hard. Would you reduce the number of meaningless relationships and one-night stands you have, to try to reduce the chances of catching a virus from kissing a near stranger? Would you move away from the crowded cities, and go and live in the rural countryside, to try to reduce your exposure to virus-carrying people?
 
If it were proven that common viruses can trigger nasty chronic diseases, how would you act on this information? What would be your strategy to reduce your chances of catching these infections, in order to reduce the total number of viruses you accumulate in your body as your life progresses?

 

 

 

 

 

 

To see which viruses are associated with which diseases, check this: List of Chronic Human Diseases Linked to Infectious Pathogens. (This article provides numerous study references that link viruses, bacteria and other pathogens to chronic diseases).

 

 


Edited by Hip, 07 August 2020 - 04:53 AM.


#2 seivtcho

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 07:11 PM

Yes, there are many viruses in people.

 

Happily, there are effective profilactic measures for all possible pathways the virus may get to you.

 

The airborn viruses, such as the common cold are being transferred by breathing them in - common profilactic measures for that pathway is wearing mask, washing hands, avoiding public events during epidemies.

Now for the coronavirus causing COVID19 it is being written that it is transmitted by a "droplet" mechanism, which profilactic measures are virtually the same.

 

The gastrointestinal pathway is common for the gastrointestinal viruses - common profilactic measures are washiong hands, cooking the food at high temperature.

 

Sexually transmited viruses - common profilactic measure is the condom and knowing very well who you make sex with.

 

The blood transmitted viruses such as HIV, Hepatitis B and C - common proflactic measures are using dispossible appliances, that are contacted with the blood, testing the blood for haemotransfusion in the blood banks, effective sterilization of the non-dispossible appliances used in the medicine.

 

The viruses that infect by contact - such as the HPVs causing the verruca and the corn is simply not toutching other people verrucas, toutching it with medical gloves, not wearing other people's socks, shoes, slippers, thongs etc.

 

 

 

 



#3 Hip

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:02 PM

Yes, the blood-borne pathogens are easier to avoid, but the pathogens which transmit via respiratory secretions (which is the majority of them) are pretty much impossible to avoid, unless you go to live on a desert island away from all humanity. And you would have to do this while young, as people start acquiring pathogens at an early age.

 

For example, people tend to acquire Epstein-Barr virus (the virus which causes mononucleosis / glandular fever) as a teenager or in their early 20s. EBV is often picked up from a girlfriend or boyfriend via kissing (hence why mono is sometimes called "kissing disease"). By the time we are adults, 90% will have picked up EBV. This virus lives in your B-cells in the blood (the cells which make antibodies), and will remain in those cells for the rest of your life.

 

Other viruses are picked up even earlier: human herpesvirus 6 (HHV-6) is usually picked up during infancy, via social contact with other human beings. HHV-6 is linked to conditions like epilepsy (if it gets into the brain), infertility (if it gets into the endometrium), and Alzheimer's.

 

 

HHV-6 is one of the few viruses which chromosomally integrates itself into your DNA. That is, it splices its viral genes into your genome.

 

 



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#4 seivtcho

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 12:41 PM

And yes, and no...

 

Yes, protecting from viruses is hard, sometimes theoretically it looks impossible.

And no, not all people get the infection. After each respiratory epidemy there are people, who didn't get the disease.

 

Yes, you may get many things by kissing.

And no, it is not obligate by law to kiss everyone.

 

Yes, when you are very early at age, you cant control who kisses you. And no, it is not impossible your parents to protect you from the herpes virus.

I am an example. I don't have herpes simplex virus. When I have been baby my parents haven't allowed anyone with herpetic lesions to kiss me.

 

Yes, herpes viruses do integrate their genomes in the human genome.

And no, this is not being transferred to your generation, since it does not change the genome of the sex cells. The genome of your child is protected from the herpes viruses. And you haven't received a herpes virus from your parents.

 

 



#5 Hip

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 02:11 PM

And no, this is not being transferred to your generation, since it does not change the genome of the sex cells. 

 

Sometimes this in-built virus is transferred to the next generation: 1% of the population is born with inherited HHV-6A or HHV-6B genomes integrated into their chromosomes in every nucleated cell. Ref: here.


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#6 seivtcho

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 04:16 PM

That was informative.

 

By the way, in my oppinion, the profilactic measures are powerful enough not only for prevention, but also for removal of the viruses - erasing them from the face of the Earth. If the human kind unites arround the removal of a certain virus, it will make it. Solely using the profilactic measures, even for viruses, that there are no vaccines against.

 

For that 1% having the virus in the genome, do they produce non-virus carrying sex cells? Or it is not still clear

 



#7 Hip

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 05:07 PM

For that 1% having the virus in the genome, do they produce non-virus carrying sex cells? Or it is not still clear

 

I am not sure. 



#8 Mind

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 05:46 PM

Viruses, bacteria, mold, etc, are everywhere in our environment all the time. Everything you touch, every time you eat, and every breath you take, you are constantly in contact with the microbiotic and viral environment. The human body is an ecosystem that is healthiest when it is in a symbiotic relationship with the surrounding environment and surrounding humans.

 

To think that one could avoid all "germs" is a fool's errand.

 

IMO, it is most healthy to stay in contact with the environment and have treatments available for when a particular "germ" affects your body in a disease-like manner.

 

Did we not learn anything from history? If you isolate yourself from the environment, your immune system will never develop and function as it should. Isolated populations are sitting ducks for every new virus. Once you start living in a sterile bubble, you will never come out.

 

 


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#9 Hip

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 07:12 PM

 The human body is an ecosystem that is healthiest when it is in a symbiotic relationship with the surrounding environment and surrounding humans.

 

That sounds like homespun philosophy from your local naturopath, herbalist or Reiki energy healer. Comforting, soothing words, for sure. 

 

But the truth is that pathogens are the oldest enemy of man, responsible for more death and disease than any other factor.

 

 

 

Every time the humanity has devised measures to prevent or reduce contact with pathogens, human healthspan and lifespan have greatly increased.

 

The chlorination of water was one of the greatest infectious disease-preventing advances ever made by man. This played a major role in increasing lifespan by 50% in the 20th century. Ref: here.  

 

Vaccination has been another great disease-preventing advance, virtually eliminating damaging infectious diseases such as poliomyelitis, post-polio syndrome, smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, Hib, pertussis, diphtheria, etc.

 

 

 

And that's just regular infectious diseases, which we now know are caused by pathogens (a few hundred years ago they did not know this).

 

What science has yet to get to grips with is the known link between pathogens and common chronic diseases (diseases that few people realize are associated with pathogens). Chronic diseases like multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, heart disease, atherosclerosis, cancers, etc. Most people think you get hit with these chronic diseases just out of bad luck; but there is a growing group of researchers who believe such chronic diseases are likely caused by pathogens. 

 

 

 


IMO, it is most healthy to stay in contact with the environment and have treatments available for when a particular "germ" affects your body in a disease-like manner.

 

For many infections, there are no treatments. In particular, we lack antivirals to treat most viral infections. So the only way to stop these infections is to either prevent exposure, or have a protective vaccination.


Edited by Hip, 10 August 2020 - 07:42 PM.

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#10 Hip

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 07:28 PM

 If you isolate yourself from the environment, your immune system will never develop and function as it should. 

 

There is some evidence that early-life exposure to pathogens may help condition and calibrate the immune system, though the science is far from settled on this. But hopefully a young infant will only be exposed to relatively mild and benign infections, and not get exposed to something damaging.

 

 

 

 

In some specific cases, early exposure to pathogens can act as a natural vaccine, training the immune system to fight that particular class of pathogens, so that when the person encounters more pathogens from the same class later in life, their immune system is better equipped to fight those pathogens.

 

For example, it has been theorized that the introduction of the poliovirus vaccine in the late 1950s has resulted in increased prevalence of type 1 diabetes. Why? Because the viruses linked to T1D (namely coxsackievirus B4 and also coxsackievirus B1) are from the same genus of virus as poliovirus, the enterovirus genus.

 

The theory is that when children were naturally exposed to wild poliovirus, their immune system learnt to deal with enterovirus infections, and so when they were hit by other viruses from the enterovirus genus later in life, they more easily fought off these infections. Refs: here and here.

 

 

 

I have also speculated that the introduction of the poliovirus vaccine might have caused the massive 5 to 8-fold increase in the prevalence of chronic fatigue syndrome / myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME/CFS) that occurred in the 1980s. ME/CFS is linked to enterovirus infections. Once children were no longer naturally exposed to poliovirus, their immune system may have found it harder to fight enteroviruses that they caught later in life.


Edited by Hip, 10 August 2020 - 07:58 PM.


#11 seivtcho

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 09:10 AM

That sounds like homespun philosophy from your local naturopath, herbalist or Reiki energy healer. Comforting, soothing words, for sure. 

 

But the truth is that pathogens are the oldest enemy of man, responsible for more death and disease than any other factor.

 

 

.....

 

Actually it is correct, and scientific.

The statement is actulally mentioned in the microbilogy books from which the medics learn

 

For the mouth I can confirm it from a dental perspective.



#12 seivtcho

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 09:13 AM

* As about should we protect from the pathogfenic microorganisms, I am definately for.

 

Profilaxy is also easier and cheaper than the treatment.

 



#13 Hip

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 03:33 PM

Actually it is correct, and scientific.

The statement is actulally mentioned in the microbilogy books from which the medics learn

 

I don't think so. There is no such thing as symbiotic relationship with smallpox, HIV, Ebola, tuberculosis, malaria, etc.

 

 

We do form a symbiotic relations with certain microbes which live in our gut, the friendly bacteria. We first pick up the bacteria that lives in our gut during birth: as the baby passes through the birth canal, it picks up friendly bacteria like Lactobacillus that live in the mother's vagina (although if you are born by Cesarean, you do not get this friendly bacteria exposure).

 

However, generally speaking, pathogenic microbes are the enemy of humanity, not our friends.  

 

 

 

But none of this should be looked at in a negative light: if pathogenic microbes do turn out to be the cause of most chronic diseases and health issues, then this represents a fantastic opportunity to greatly improve the healthspan of the whole human race. All we have to do is develop vaccines which protect us from all the microbes which are linked to disease, and humanity will then enjoy a golden age of excellent health.



#14 Mind

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 05:42 PM

Like I said (but apparently not effectively enough). Treat pathogenic conditions, like always (and with increasingly better biotech in the future), but I don't want to sterilize my entire environment and body to avoid almost every "germ". I would rather use biotech to enhance my immune system and treat pathogenic conditions when they occur, than walk through life terrified of every "germ". Germs are everywhere. Impossible to avoid.


Edited by Mind, 11 August 2020 - 05:48 PM.


#15 Hip

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Posted 11 August 2020 - 07:04 PM

 I don't want to sterilize my entire environment and body to avoid almost every "germ". 

 

Most of the pathogens linked to chronic disease do not come from the environment, but are contracted from other human beings. They are spread by human saliva and respiratory secretions, and thus transmitted through ordinary social contact, or more quickly, through deep kissing (where virus-containing saliva is shared between two people). In a few cases these pathogens are spread by blood (eg through unprotected sex).

 

Most of the problematic chronic disease-associated pathogens are viruses (which you can only contract from other human beings, or occasionally from animals). There aren't as many bacteria linked to chronic disease. And even fewer fungi or protozoa.

 

So we do not need to live in some sterile bubble, and do not need to hide away from all sources of bacteria; we just need to develop effective vaccines for these pathogens which are spread human to human.

 

 

 

In the meantime, while humanity waits for the vaccines to be created, if you want to reduce your exposure to pathogens which potentially may cause a chronic disease later in life, you can reduce the amount of girls or boys you kiss, as kissing is an efficient way to spread most viruses. 

 

This might be one reason why religious people live longer, as religion usually teaches restraint in amorous and sexual matters, so if you follow such religious teachings, you will naturally reduce your exposure to viruses — viruses which decades after being caught may cause all sorts of chronic diseases, from heart disease to cancer.

 

 

It may take a 100 years or more to develop vaccines to cover the full range of problematic disease-causing pathogens, partly because of technical difficulties in making vaccines, and partly because too few people appreciate the link between pathogens and chronic disease, so people do not see the need to make these vaccine.

 

At the moment, we have not proven that these pathogens cause disease; we just know that there is an association, which suggests the pathogens might cause the disease. If we could prove these pathogens cause their associated disease, then there might be more interest in urgently creating new vaccines.


Edited by Hip, 11 August 2020 - 07:07 PM.


#16 seivtcho

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 07:20 PM

I don't think so. There is no such thing as symbiotic relationship with smallpox, HIV, Ebola, tuberculosis, malaria, etc.

 

 

We do form a symbiotic relations with certain microbes which live in our gut, the friendly bacteria. We first pick up the bacteria that lives in our gut during birth: as the baby passes through the birth canal, it picks up friendly bacteria like Lactobacillus that live in the mother's vagina (although if you are born by Cesarean, you do not get this friendly bacteria exposure).

 

However, generally speaking, pathogenic microbes are the enemy of humanity, not our friends.  

 

 

 

But none of this should be looked at in a negative light: if pathogenic microbes do turn out to be the cause of most chronic diseases and health issues, then this represents a fantastic opportunity to greatly improve the healthspan of the whole human race. All we have to do is develop vaccines which protect us from all the microbes which are linked to disease, and humanity will then enjoy a golden age of excellent health.

 

There are no symbiotic relationship with smallpox, HIV, Ebola, tuberculosis, malaria, etc., but disturbing the normal symbiotic relationships lower the local immunity, and thus makes the human body more acceptable to viruses.

Also the disturbed symbiotic relationships may lead to bacterial infections, that lower the general immunity.
 

In the contemprorary medicine (2020) it is not "either" but "and"

It is not the kind of the microorganism is the key, and it is not the general immunity is the key.

It is

AND the microorganism

AND the general immunity

AND the local immunity

AND individual particularities making you prone to a certain virus, or opposite super infectable from that virus

AND number of the viruses that penentrated you

AND at what pathway do they tried to infect you 

AND your other (accompanying) diseases 

AND your nutrition

AND what other microorganisms have invaded you already

AND whatever you may imagine.

 

*the whole mankind, or homo sapiens, not "the whole human race". There are several human races of the one current human specie.


Edited by seivtcho, 12 August 2020 - 07:48 PM.


#17 Hip

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 08:25 PM

Yes, when it comes to the association between pathogens and chronic disease, there is probably not a simple causal relationship like there is with say HIV and AIDS.

 

With HIV, if you catch this virus, in the absence of antiretroviral drugs, it nearly always leads to AIDS (though there is a small percentage who are genetically immune to AIDS). 

 

But for a pathogen to cause a chronic disease, several factors may have to be simultaneously present. This may be why it is hard to prove a causal link between the pathogen and the disease. 

 

A good example is the animal model of Crohn's disease: this illness can be precipitated by a norovirus, but only when both a specific gene variant is present, and a certain toxin has damaged the gut. Ref: here.

 

And sometimes it might take a specific genetic subtype of the pathogen to cause a chronic disease: multiple sclerosis for example has been strongly linked to just one specific genetic subtype of Epstein-Barr virus.

 

 

So it is not going to be easy to prove that pathogens cause chronic diseases, because the causal equation is probably multifactorial. Nevertheless, diseases (both physical and mental) are the bane of human existence, so we must focus on eliminating as many diseases as we can.

 

 

 

*the whole mankind, or homo sapiens, not "the whole human race". There are several human races of the one current human specie.

 

True, though the "human race" is an idiomatic expression meaning humanity as a whole. 


Edited by Hip, 12 August 2020 - 08:57 PM.


#18 Mind

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Posted 13 August 2020 - 05:38 PM

Consider: As the world became more connected over the last century or so, viruses spread to all corners of the globe. Every virus has been to every country. In the face of this, the average lifespan of humans has increased dramatically. If viruses were "so BAD", this would have never happened. Obviously, our biotech and other advances have helped humans live longer, without the need for everyone to be neurotically germophobic and terrified of ever interacting with other people.

 

We should keep doing the same. Lifespan will increase. It is impossible to avoid viruses.


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#19 Hip

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Posted 13 August 2020 - 06:10 PM

Consider: As the world became more connected over the last century or so, viruses spread to all corners of the globe. Every virus has been to every country. In the face of this, the average lifespan of humans has increased dramatically. If viruses were "so BAD", this would have never happened. 

 

Yes, globalization makes it easier for new pathogens to spread across the world. As we saw with HIV, for example. And scientists have been concerned for decades that nasty new infectious pathogens may cross to humans from animals, and then rapidly spread across the globe. So coronavirus was an expected event, and there will be others to follow (but hopefully not for few decades). 

 

 

But it is important to understand that most of the viruses which have been linked to chronic diseases were already present in all countries to begin with. These are all very common everyday viruses.

 

Most of the viruses linked to chronic diseases are not the severe infectious disease-type pathogens like Ebola or yellow fever, but seemingly benign viruses that most of us catch without experiencing any acute symptoms worse than say a cold or flue-like illness. After a few days, these acute symptoms clear up, and we don't think about the virus any more.

 

But most of these seemingly benign viruses we catch remain in our bodies for the rest of our life, as a low-level infection or a latent infection. It's these uninvited guests in our bodies which may later trigger a chronic disease.


Edited by Hip, 13 August 2020 - 06:11 PM.


#20 seivtcho

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 06:42 AM

The most important and according to me still not well defined is where to draw the line.

 

When to stop protecting from viruses and bacteria.

 

You definately have to protect from the HIV, the hepatitis viruses and the cancerogenic viruses. You definately have to avoid kissing people with lesions of the mouth. That I think everyone will agree.

 

And then? What is the next step that is not too much? On the path leading to living isolated in a bunker.

 



#21 Hip

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 02:39 PM

And then? What is the next step that is not too much? On the path leading to living isolated in a bunker.

 

Biologist Professor Paul W. Ewald, who is a proponent of the theory that pathogens are the likely cause of many chronic diseases, says that avoiding deep kissing (French kissing) of too many sexual partners is one of the best steps you can take to try to avoid catching too many viruses.

 

When you kiss and share saliva, this allows viruses to transmit from one person to the other. So placing some restraints on your amorous activities (ie, choosing only to have emotionally meaningful relationships, and avoiding shallow meaningless one-night stands or brief sexual affairs), is a good way to reduce the number of pathogenic infections you catch.

 

Of course that may be easier said than done.


Edited by Hip, 14 August 2020 - 02:40 PM.


#22 Sdescon

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 12:35 AM

Consider: As the world became more connected over the last century or so, viruses spread to all corners of the globe. Every virus has been to every country. In the face of this, the average lifespan of humans has increased dramatically. If viruses were "so BAD", this would have never happened. Obviously, our biotech and other advances have helped humans live longer, without the need for everyone to be neurotically germophobic and terrified of ever interacting with other people.

 

We should keep doing the same. Lifespan will increase. It is impossible to avoid viruses.

 

Luckily the vast (and greatly vast) majority of viruses are not pathogenic to us. This include bacteriophages (the most numerous viruses in the world), and viruses that do not target humans or do but only cause minimal disease. However, we should not underestimate truly pathogenic viruses such as HIV, Hepatitis C, certain virulent strains of influenza, and others. The best approach is to not be neurotic and germophobic, but to use common sense precaution and practice basic health hygiene. There is a lot we don't know about in regards to the long term health effects of latent viruses that almost everyone has (CMV, Epstein Barr virus, Herpes I & 2, BK polyomavirus etc) and their very complex interaction with our immune system. As we age or if we encounter certain disease states, these latent viruses may cause morbidity or reactivation. Gene therapies are still experimental and may provide us a way to get rid of viral reservoirs as mentioned here by Steve Hill: https://www.lifespan...implex-virus-1/. The utility of something like this in the general population is still in question because it is so easy to get reinfected and much of the population has the virus. It may be useful in "decolonizing" certain at risk populations (ie organ transplant pts or others who are immunosuppressed and are taking very long term antiviral medications to prevent reactivation). Maybe one day (in a very long time from now) it could be possible to eradicate a lot of these latent viruses in most of the population using a low risk method not yet currently developed.



#23 seivtcho

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 06:58 AM

Fine... so where is the line?

 

Which measures are correct, and which psychotic?

 

 



#24 seivtcho

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 07:11 AM

... Maybe one day (in a very long time from now) it could be possible to eradicate a lot of these latent viruses in most of the population using a low risk method not yet currently developed.

 

They are developed, and they are effective enough, and everybody knows them. These are the standart profilactic measures. It is the crowd, that can't be made to accept them. Until now there is only one erradicated disease, the Smallpox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

How was it irradicated? With a new trieatment? My ass. With PREVENTION !!!!

With vaccines, to be more precise. But the vaccines are only one type of possible prevention. For the current COVID19 masks and desinfecting hands is perfectly enough. If all of the people ion the world start wearing the damn masks, and start desinfecting their hands with 70' alcochol instead drinking it, the virus is doomed. Everyone infected to the moment will either survive and kill out the viruses in him/her by the immune system, or will die and his corpse will be processesd safely and the viruses in it will die. The medical teams treating the patients will not infect, and the virus as geneal will dissapear from the face of the planet. 

Why is not happening?

Because the crowd do not want to wear masks, pulls out its nose outside the mask, takes off the mask in the public tranmsport, and other public places, does not allow to be reproved for not wearing the mask, etc., etc.
 


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#25 Sdescon

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 02:41 PM

They are developed, and they are effective enough, and everybody knows them. These are the standart profilactic measures. It is the crowd, that can't be made to accept them. Until now there is only one erradicated disease, the Smallpox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

How was it irradicated? With a new trieatment? My ass. With PREVENTION !!!!

With vaccines, to be more precise. But the vaccines are only one type of possible prevention. For the current COVID19 masks and desinfecting hands is perfectly enough. If all of the people ion the world start wearing the damn masks, and start desinfecting their hands with 70' alcochol instead drinking it, the virus is doomed. Everyone infected to the moment will either survive and kill out the viruses in him/her by the immune system, or will die and his corpse will be processesd safely and the viruses in it will die. The medical teams treating the patients will not infect, and the virus as geneal will dissapear from the face of the planet. 

Why is not happening?

Because the crowd do not want to wear masks, pulls out its nose outside the mask, takes off the mask in the public tranmsport, and other public places, does not allow to be reproved for not wearing the mask, etc., etc.
 

 

I was specifically referring to latent viruses - ie Herpes, CMV, Epstein Barr, etc. These viruses are in huge portions of the human population and very difficult to eradicate. There is so far no vaccine developed for these. Thankfully smallpox had an effective vaccine, not so for these diseases. In fact antibodies or a prior infection to these will not protect you from reinfection. Once an infection is established, there is a viral reservoir that takes hold which constantly reconstitutes and replenishes the infection. If a highly effective vaccine could be developed that would prevent reservoirs from taking hold, that would be amazing. On top of this, there are literally billions of people that would need to be decolonized with techniques like gene therapy or perhaps something else not yet developed. Such a thing is a massive, massive undertaking.

 

Interestingly, there are certain viruses if cured can cause infection again. Hepatitis C is now curable in a high percentage of cases thanks to new NS inhibitor drugs. What often happens is certain populations (IV drug users who share needles) get reinfected after cure due to relapse and need to be cured again. This means the prospects of vaccine development are not that great in Hepatitis C as it manages to evade the immune system despite past exposure.

 

I agree with common sense precautions against other diseases like COVID (ie masks, hand washing, avoiding crowds if possible, etc).


Edited by Sdescon, 04 September 2020 - 02:51 PM.


#26 seivtcho

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 02:52 PM

It is not necessary to be a vaccine

 

It has to be AN EFFECTIVE PREVENTION.

 

If there is an effective prevention, then if the crowd tights its belt, it can erradicate each virus, no matter how hard for irradication you think it is.

 

That is that - the truth of the truths in virus erradication.

 

 



#27 Hip

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 03:38 PM

However, we should not underestimate truly pathogenic viruses such as HIV, Hepatitis C, certain virulent strains of influenza, and others. 

 

There are actually 1000s of viruses in common circulation which infect humans, and many are proven to be pathogenic, or are speculated to be pathogenic because they have been linked to chronic diseases. And human viruses which we never knew about are being discovered all the time (I mean viruses which are already present in the human body, but which we had not noticed or detected before).

 

Here are some of panoply of human viruses:

 

The herpesvirus family viruses

  • Epstein-Barr virus — causes various cancers, the probable cause of multiple sclerosis
  • Cytomegalovirus — causes anxiety disorder, linked to atherosclerosis, infection during pregnancy can cause autism, linked to brain cancer
  • HHV-6 — linked to temporal lobe epilepsy, linked to infertility
  • HHV-7 — linked to Alzheimer's
  • HHV-8 — causes the cancer Kaposi's sarcoma 
  • Varicella zoster virus — causes shingles
  • Herpes simplex 1 and 2 — linked to Alzheimer's, bipolar disorder, heart disease, dementia, metabolic syndrome 

 

The enterovirus genus of viruses:

  • Coxsackievirus B1 to B6 — a group of 6 human viruses linked to type 1 diabetes, heart disease like dilated cardiomyopathy, heart valve disease, hypertension, sudden death by heart attack, schizophrenia, Sjogren's syndrome, autoimmune diseases
  • Echovirus 1 to 32 — a group of 32 human viruses linked to hypertension, stroke, Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, motor neuron disease

 

The adenovirus family of viruses:

  • There are 57 known human adenoviruses. Some like adenovirus 36 are known to trigger obesity in mice, and have been found in obese humans; adenovirus 36 is postulated to be a causal factor in the obesity epidemic. 

 

 

Parvovirus B19 — linked to lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, vasculitis, and autoimmune diseases

 

Measles, mumps and rubella — these viruses have been mostly limited by vaccination. Mumps can cause deafness, rubella in pregnancy can cause autism.

 

Human papillomaviruses — over a hundred of these, some which cause cancer of the cervix, anus, vulva, vagina, penis and oropharynx

 

HTLV 1 and 2 — retrovirus cousins of HIV. Common in Japan, the Caribbean and Florida. Spread by human breast milk in baby feeding, and by blood. Causes the cancer T-cell leukemia, and causes a demyelinating disease similar to progressive multiple sclerosis. About 5% of Caribbean people have this virus.

 

Bornavirus — linked to bipolar, depression and schizophrenia. 

 

Norovirus — linked to Crohn's disease

 

Influenza A virus — linked to Parkinson's, ADHD, and infection during pregnancy increases child's risk for schizophrenia

 

 

 

Other human viruses or virus families include:

 

Rotavirus • coronaviruses • influenza B virus • parainfluenza • respiratory syncytial virus • metapneumovirus • West Nile virus • rabies • simian virus 40 • foamy virus • spuma virus • murine leukemia virus • astrovirus • Ross River virus • sapovirus • molluscum contagiosum virus • reovirus • orf virus • lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus • encephalomyocarditis virus • bocavirus • TT virus • JC virus • BK virus • WU virus • polyomavirus • Ljungan  • arenavirus • St Louis encephalitis virus • Japanese encephalitis virus • dengue virus • Rift Valley fever virus • sindbis virus • California encephalitis virus • La Crosse virus • Toscana virus • arbovirus • Flavivirus • hepatovirus • parechovirus • calicivirus • togavirus • molluscipoxvirus • hepadnavirus • paramyxovirus • orthomyxovirus


Edited by Hip, 04 September 2020 - 03:40 PM.


#28 Hip

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 03:48 PM

And here are some of the dozens of recently discovered human viruses, with the diseases they are linked to:

 

 
Pneumoviridae family:

  • human metapneumovirus virus — discovered 2001, causes upper and lower respiratory tract infection, and occasionally severe pneumonia.

Mimivirus genus:

  • mimivirus — discovered 1992, may cause some forms of pneumonia.

Ebolavirus genus :

  • Bundibugyo virus — discovered 2008, one of four ebolaviruses that causes Ebola virus disease in humans.

Parvoviridae family:

  • parvovirus 4 — discovered 2005, might cause influenza-like syndrome, encephalitis, and fetal hydrops.
  • human bocavirus 1 — discovered 2005, linked to lower respiratory tract infections and gastroenteritis.
  • human bocavirus 2 — discovered 2009, linked to respiratory tract infections and possibly gastroenteritis.
  • bufavirus — discovered 2012, found in the feces of patients with gastroenteritis.

Polyomaviridae family:

  • WU virus — discovered 2007, found in respiratory secretions, may be pathogenic in the immunocompromised
  • KI virus — discovered 2007, found in respiratory secretions, may be pathogenic in the immunocompromised
  • MW polyomavirus — discovered 2012, found in the stool
  • human polyomavirus 7 — discovered 2010, found in skin of healthy adults
  • human polyomavirus 8 — discovered 2010, found in skin of healthy adults
  • human polyomavirus 8 — discovered 2010, associated with trichodysplasia spinulosa, a rare skin disease
  • human polyomavirus 9 — discovered 2011, found in skin of healthy adults
  • human polyomavirus 11 — discovered 2013, found in the stool
  • human polyomavirus 12 — discovered 2013, found in skin of healthy adults
  • human polyomavirus 13 — discovered 2014, might have an affinity for vascular endothelial cells
  • merkel cell polyomavirus — discovered 2008, suspected to cause the skin cancer Merkel cell carcinoma

Circoviridae family:

  • torque teno virus — discovered 1997, found in 10% of blood donors, might be linked to liver disorders.

Reoviridae family:

  • melaka virus — discovered 2006, causes respiratory tract infection.
  • Liao ning virus — discovered 2006, might cause encephalitis.

Paramyxoviridae family:

  • menangle virus — discovered 1997, inhibits interferon signaling, causes a flu-like illness in humans.
  • Hendra virus — discovered 1995, causes severe and often fatal disease in humans.
  • Nipah virus — discovered 1999, in humans may be asymptomatic, or cause acute respiratory syndrome and fatal encephalitis.

Hantaviridae family:

  • Andes virus — discovered 1996, causes hantavirus cardiopulmonary syndrome, which is often fatal.
  • Laguna Negra virus — discovered 1997, causes hantavirus cardiopulmonary syndrome, which is often fatal.

Rhabdoviridae family:

  • Australian bat lyssavirus — discovered 1996, causes a fatal rabies-like illness in humans.

Coronaviridae family:

  • SARS-CoV-2  — discovered 2019, causes the COVID-19 severe acute respiratory syndrome, paediatric inflammatory multisystemic syndrome
  • SARS coronavirus — discovered 2003, causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).
  • human coronavirus NL63 — discovered 2004, might cause upper respiratory tract infections, severe lower respiratory tract infection, croup and bronchiolitis.
  • human coronavirus HKU1 — discovered 2005, causes respiratory tract infection.

Adenoviridae family:

  • titi-monkey adenovirus — discovered 2009, causes respiratory illness in humans.

Enterovirus genus of the Picornaviridae family:

  • enterovirus B75 — discovered 2005, associated with viral (aseptic) meningitis.
  • enterovirus B79 to B88, B97, B100 and B101 — discovered in a single study in 2007.
  • enterovirus B84 — discovered 2004, associated with acute flaccid paralysis.
  • enterovirus B93 — discovered 2007, associated with acute flaccid paralysis.
  • enterovirus D94 — discovered 2007, associated with acute flaccid paralysis.
  • enterovirus C104 — discovered 2009, causes respiratory tract infections, otitis media, and may be able to infect the central nervous system.
  • enterovirus C105 — discovered 2012, a polio-like virus linked to paralysis in children.
  • enterovirus C109 — discovered 2010, isolated from outbreak of acute pediatric respiratory illness.
  • enterovirus C117 — discovered 2010, might cause lower respiratory tract infection.

Parechovirus genus of the Picornaviridae family:

  • Parechovirus B (formally called Ljungan virus) — discovered mid-1990s, associated with fetal malformations, intrauterine fetal death, and sudden infant death in humans, possibly linked to diabetes, neurological and other illnesses in humans.

Cardiovirus genus of the Picornaviridae family:

  • Saffold virus 1 to 9 — discovered 2007, found in 90% of humans, may cause severe infections of the central nervous system, might catalyze serious diseases.

Kobuvirus genus of the Picornaviridae family:

  • aichivirus A — discovered 1989, causes acute gastroenteritis.

Cosavirus genus of the Picornaviridae family:

  • cosavirus A to D —discovered 2008, linked to acute flaccid paralysis and diarrhea.

Salivirus genus of the Picornaviridae family:

  • Salivirus — discovered 2009, linked to gastroenteritis.

Senecavirus genus of the Picornaviridae family:

  • Senecavirus A — discovered 2009, no known symptoms in human infection, potently oncolytic, so the virus is being developed as an anti-cancer therapy.

Pegivirus genus:

  • human hepegivirus 1 — discovered 2015?, similar to hepatitis C virus.

Cyclovirus genus:

  • cyclovirus-Vietnam — discovered 2013, a human cyclovirus that infects the central nervous system.

Arenaviridae family:

  • Lujo virus — discovered 2009 after outbreak of viral hemorrhagic fever, human infection usually fatal.
  • Chapare virus — discovered 2008, causes Chapare hemorrhagic fever.

Astroviridae family:

  • astrovirus VA1 — discovered 2009, causes acute gastroenteritis, encephalitis.
  • The clinical signs, symptoms and pathogenesis for many of these viruses are not fully known at this stage.

 

 

More info: List of viruses discovered from 1897 to 2010 which cause human illness.



#29 Sdescon

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 04:25 PM

It is not necessary to be a vaccine

 

It has to be AN EFFECTIVE PREVENTION.

 

If there is an effective prevention, then if the crowd tights its belt, it can erradicate each virus, no matter how hard for irradication you think it is.

 

That is that - the truth of the truths in virus erradication.

 

If it were that easy, then almost no one would be obese or have substance abuse disorders and STDs wouldn't exist. Unfortunately it is absolutely NOT that easy. In theory, it is possible if one can control the entire population of the planet in real time to take the steps you want them to take. There are 7.8 billion individual humans in an interconnected world that is highly complex, nuanced, and full of people with different philosophies/systems/governments/resource sets/interests full of zoonotic vectors and a biosphere with very aggressive adaptive biology (such as viruses, transposons, and endogenous viral elements). In reality, as much as prevention is important, it is almost impossible to eliminate viral disease with prevention alone. Active measures must be absolutely taken along with prevention or we will never eliminate many of these viral diseases. Smallpox is a success story but it is an exception to the rule.

 

@Hip

 

Yes, there are tons of viruses out there in circulation in the population, but I have mentioned the most common ones well known to cause severe infections (hence "and others"). Cracking the problem of pathogenic viruses is a huge undertaking with multiple pathways not unlike solving aging. We must first attack the low hanging fruit of pathogenic viruses we absolutely have excellent evidence that cause human disease before moving on to those that do so more slowly or have lesser evidence. We are currently not in a post scarcity world, so resources must be used efficiently and in synergy as best as they could.



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#30 Hip

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 04:58 PM

In reality, as much as prevention is important, it is almost impossible to eliminate viral disease with prevention alone. Active measures must be absolutely taken along with prevention or we will never eliminate many of these viral diseases. Smallpox is a success story but it is an exception to the rule.

A vaccination will give you protection from the pathogen, even if that pathogen cannot be eliminated from the world entirely. 



 

We must first attack the low hanging fruit of pathogenic viruses we absolutely have excellent evidence that cause human disease before moving on to those that do so more slowly or have lesser evidence.


Absolutely.

 

Some viruses like the herpesvirus family and the enterovirus genus are linked to many major chronic diseases, and these viruses are also very common in the human population. For example, 90% of adults have EBV, and nearly 100% have HHV-6.

 

So certainly we should be developing vaccines for all pathogens which are common and linked to major chronic diseases. 

 

Unfortunately some viruses provide technical challenges in terms of developing a vaccine. It's hard to develop a EBV vaccine, which is why we have not got one yet. And an HIV vaccine is also proving difficult to create.

 

However, in the case of coxsackievirus B, which is linked to many diseases which cost a lot of money to care for, like diabetes, myalgic encephalomyelitis, heart diseases, it's easy to make vaccines this virus, it is not a difficult technical challenge. And yet we still have not got any coxsackievirus B vaccines in the vaccine schedule.







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