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Methamphetamine as all in one medication?

methamphetamine amphetamine tranylcypromine maoi antidepressant

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#1 stolpioni

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Posted 28 October 2020 - 12:51 PM


After having run long trials with many antidepressants, most recently Tranylcypromine for two years, and now taking D-Amphetamine on a daily basis for both ADHD and depression, I was wondering whether moving to D-Methamphetamine might be a good idea.

 

Right now I feel like I'm missing the serotonin action from D-Amp that D-Meth could provide. During my years on Tranylcypromine (a MAOI), I had a nice and stable mood. But the problem was sleeping. Since the MAOI never left the system, I was constantly buzzing. I have debated combining D-Amphetamine with Tranylcypromine, but then thought; perhaps D-Methamphetamine would be the best of two worlds, without many of the side effects?

 

Could anyone enlighten me, why it would be worse to take a low dose Crystal Meth (5-20mg a day) than say a combo of Tranylcypromine + D-Amphetamine? Or even just Tranylcypromine by itself. Would methamphetamine have more dangerous long term effects? Would cause rapid tolerance build up? Or could it be sustainable for decades if being careful about dosing, and perhaps taking tolerance breaks every once in a while?


Edited by stolpioni, 28 October 2020 - 12:52 PM.


#2 Jesus is King

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Posted 28 October 2020 - 04:48 PM

Hi,

 

I feel in a similar position. I’m more bi-polar, highs and talk a lot, but I’ve noticed amphetimine type substance work well for me. I feel DMAE and forskolin are very mood balancing for me, and I’ve been taking PEA (I don’t get high from it).

 

But look into DMAE, forskolin, and PEA.

 

Oh as for sleep. A lot of things screw up my sleep, including DMAE and ALCAR. However I seem to function throughout the day because my daytime tiredness is gone. This all happened a few months ago when I started supplementing selenium. Selenium seemed to fix a lot of my sensitivity to supplements, and eliminated my daytime tiredness. 200mcg at first did give me insomnia, it was a ramping up of my thyroid type insomnia, so I’ve been taking 100mcg. But selenium is a miracle supplement for me, I might experience insomnia still, but it doesn’t effect me the next day. I do take 50mg of dph at times to help with insomnia, but being able to function with a stable mood and without tiredness the next day is fine for me atm.



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#3 ibtisam_midlet

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Posted 05 December 2020 - 12:53 AM

yes Methamphetamine as all in one medication, but don't take over 25mg/day its the last clinically available dose, meth in this dose is not neurontoxic. and don't combine it with maoi, high level neurotransmitter might lead to oxidative stress so it will be neurontoxic


Edited by ibtisam_midlet, 05 December 2020 - 12:58 AM.


#4 CWF1986

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 10:28 PM

If the tranylcypromine was working so well except for sleep issues, would be possible to take medication to help with sleep?  This medicine in addition to it's MAOI properties also acts like amphetamine.  



#5 mandaryn

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 11:04 AM

LOW dose methamphetamine would likely work for what you’re trying to address. I’ll agree strongly with the poster that said to keep the dose sub-20mg. Your issue will be rapid onset of tolerance which can be mitigated by using Memantine. To accomplish this you need to start with a very low dose (5mg) taken about an hour before the methamphetamine. Gradually (over 2 weeks) increase the memantine to 10-15mg. I can’t emphasize enough how GRADUAL this increase needs to be. It is a potent drug with significant effects. You will find a sweet spot where you can modulate tolerance like this. While you are taking this remember that methamphetamine is a potent releasing agent for Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Serotonin. You must supplement with the building blocks of each, again, in low dose, always err on the side of taking too little, and consider the “recommended daily dose” as your ceiling. This next one is so vital; you must supplement creatine daily. I’d say start with 5g twice a day. This, much like using memantine, is an essential component of harm reduction. Another HARD RULE; you MUST eat and sleep. If your use of methamphetamine is preventing either, time to role the dose back. No exceptions. If you fail to adhere to this last rule you will physically deteriorate over time. It is 100% possible to use this drug safely and effectively, however it requires a level of discipline than many people cannot produce. What I have written here are the very basics that have come from 12 years of use in which my life has continually grown and flourished. My career has grown. I enjoy positive and fulfilling relationships with friends and my partner. I have maintained my body weight and I continue to look very young for my age. The discipline for moderation has always been something that I could do, but it requires that you be a high self-monitor, maintain a staunch commitment to daily self-improvement, total honesty in your internal dialogue, and the courage to recognize and act when you need to roll back or stop your dosing routine even if it means you have to cope with some negative effects for a few days to accomplish the benefit required. I would caution you to secure a RELIABLE source for the drug and ALWAYS maintain a backup supply. You must take the time to find a source that you feel confident is not going to sell you something dangerous or impure. You will need to learn how to purify it yourself, possibly, which is something that can be accomplished with items available for purchase at a hardware store. If there is any chance that you could, through a physician, obtain Desoxyn (prescription strength and safely manufactured) then do this. DM me if you have any additional questions but know that what I have told you here is the only pathway to safe and healthy use of this very potent drug. Used properly it can be the salt and pepper of life, but it is never intended to be the meal.

One last thing; if you are going to do this you must be steadfast in caring for your vascular health. You can look into how this is accomplished with respect to supplementation, but the big piece is that you cannot smoke or engage in any obvious activities that are known to significantly affect your circulation in a negative way. My recommendation (I don’t know how old you are, so...) is to use a supplement with beet root, like NEO40, on a daily basis, along with fish oil and perhaps some MCT’s. Nitric Oxide levels, along with caring for your cholesterol, are something you must pay attention to. If all this seems like a lot, you’re right. You can trust me when I say it is the only safe path, or don’t, and find out for yourself. Up to you. Vigilance is key.

Edited by mandaryn, 20 January 2021 - 11:13 AM.

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#6 mandaryn

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 12:37 PM

Ok, screw it. I feel like if I’ve gone this far I need to give you all of the information. What I’m going to list here is my supplementation routine. I’m not putting it here for anyone to pick apart or debate. If you don’t like or agree with anything I’ve written, don’t do it. I say this only because I do not intend to come back to this post several times a day to defend what I know works. It is knowledge that comes from 12 years of living it, my education as a nurse, along with additional education in science that I obtained during a period where I thought I might be going to medical school. I have spent thousands of hours reading research and experimenting. When I am uncertain about a particular subject I go back to the most basic information required for understanding it and work my way forward. I mention all this only to illustrate that I am not casual in my commitment to ensuring that my decision to use this drug does not create negatives in my life. I can say with total honesty that if I thought it was I would cease its use and re-evaluate. I have done this on a few occasions. I have been extremely disciplined, and that fact has saved me from dealing with most of not all of the negatives you associate with this drug. To be sure, there are benefits to its use (obviously), and to adequately enumerate those I have to start with why I chose this path in the first place.

Growing up I was always one of the smartest kids in class, but I was a great starter, bad finisher. I have ADHD, of the inattentive variety, and it meant that my ability to follow-through on things was mostly non-existent. I adapted growing up, but when it followed me into adulthood, and my career grew to the point that it became a barrier to success, this is where I landed.

I have known many people over that time who had some or all of this information and were attempting to produce the same result. I have benefitted from those times because there was always an exchange of information that added to my approach in some way. Pulling this off at a minimum requires the intellectual capacity to understand the science, and a self-awareness that facilitates ongoing self-assessment of both your physical, emotional, and intellectual state. Journaling about your process is profoundly helpful, if for no other reason than because is reinforces your retention of the important pieces of information required for you to make minor adjustments, sometimes daily, to what you put in your body. There may be some people here who want to tell me I’m kidding myself, blah blah blah. To those people I would say; don’t believe everything you read. This path will not end well for 90% of the population who lack the will, intelligence or discipline to accomplish it. If that explanation still isn’t good enough for you, I want to say, in advance, kiss my ass. You’re entitled to your opinions. I’m entitled to disagree. The single biggest indicator of success in a situation like this is results. I live a happy, healthy, fulfilling life. Use of this drug has contributed to that. Benefits for me include;

I can’t remember the last time I had one of those days where I just feel run down or tired. Whether it’s the drug or the supplements I take to manage it’s effects, these types of days are non-existent in my life.

Despite having ADHD, I am able to follow-through on even the most mundane repetitive tasks unfailingly. This has grown over time to make a level of efficiency possible in my life that I had never experienced before.

Brain fog, forgetfulness, mental fatigue are not things I experience.

I am 100% a “glass half full” person. It’s just enough to tip me to the side of positivity. Life and it’s experienced are completely filtered through our perspective and this has helped to maintain a fluidity in my outlook and perceptions that has allowed me to adapt readily to change.

It has fueled a long-term consistency in my overall effort dedicated to my goals. This, in turn, has resulted in my career going places I never imagined. It has allowed me to build a stable financial foundation. It has allowed me to acquire things only available to those who can be disciplined. On this I will point out, care must be taken with dosing because too much will actually create impulsivity which obviously does not contribute to the disciplined execution of a plan.

Ok, you get the idea. Here’s what I take daily to maintain my overall health and to mitigate any negative effects of the drug. This is what works for me. I am in no way endorsing the use of any drug or substance in this or any other post, I am simply relating an anecdotal experience. Do not take what I write as anything other than just information for your consideration. If I can help someone avoid the potential negatives, then I have accomplished my goal...

Alpha-ketoglutarate 1000mg once daily
Nicotinamide Mononucleotide 500mg once daily
Nicotinamide Riboside 300mg once daily
Niacinamide 250mg once daily
Mito-Q (mitoquinol) 10mg once daily
PQQ 20mg once daily
Alpha-Lipoic Acid 600mg once daily
N-Acetyl-Cysteine 600mg sustained release once daily
Krill Oil 1000mg once daily
Rhodiola Rosea 500mg once daily
Pterostilbene 100mg once daily
Caprylic Acid Triglycerides 14g once daily (MCTs in the form of Bullet Proof Brain Octane Oil...it’s not bad in a cup of coffee)
Creatine Monohydrate 1g twice daily dissolved in a drink with simple sugars
Volt03 (a modified curcumin that enhances bioavailability significantly) 500mg once daily
Grape Seed Extract 200 mg twice daily
Cell Food (don’t judge) used in drinking water throughout the day.
Memantine 5~10 mg M-F 1 hour before dosing.
Neo40 (beet root, Hawthorne Berry, L-Citrulline, Sodium Nitrite, Vitamin C, Vitamin B12) - one tablet daily.

About once every 6 months to a year I will do a course of BPC-157 over about 10-15 days. Don’t screw around with any oral versions. To really benefit from this you need to be ok with injecting yourself. It is a tiny little sub-q needle (insulin syringe) and you need to just dry your tears and do it.

I use a pro-biotic that is specifically to mitigate systemic inflammation. It is marketed for skin-related benefits, which are real, but seems to have a global effect of decreasing inflammation. I will be 50 years old this year. I have no major health problems. No chronic conditions. My joints do not pop, even after long days I have no peripheral edema, my HGB A1Cs are consistently good. My cholesterol is normal, although my HDLs can run high, I suspect from religious Omega-3 supplementation. I have no sexual dysfunction. Honestly, in that aspect, I still feel exactly like I did when I was 13, hormonally. Fortunately I have the wisdom of experience to keep me from acting on those impulses. My testosterone levels are consistently normal to high-normal. I only occasionally drink alcohol...socially. Never did much for me. I do not smoke but I do on occasion vape for nicotine benefits, which are real. I work at the executive level in my career. My salary and opportunities have grown consistently. During the period I have been on this I completed a graduate degree. Learning is as easy as it ever was. I meal prep with my girlfriend (she’s 34), so I eat right most of the time. I exercise 4-5 days a week. In my 20’s I found body building due to being naturally skinny. I have found that, over the years, my exercise time is best spent on simply maintaining the muscle mass I gained in those years. Cardiovascular health, as stated previously, is vital. I recommend finding a way to stay in shape without the impact on your joints that comes from running. You will pay for that one day.

Dry mouth can be a feature of using this. Ignore it and it will cost you teeth. For me, sugarless gum, along with brushing 2-3 times a day mitigates this just fine. If you find you are grinding your teeth you need to roll back your dose, unless the toothless look is what you’re going for.

I’m going to repeat; you MUST eat and sleep. Neglect either to your detriment. This is the number one rule. If you just can’t bring yourself to eat, either reduce your dose or quit entirely, because you will deteriorate without food. You’re burning through supplies of certain nutrients in your body at an accelerated rate. It takes no time at all to encounter the negatives that come with deficiency.

On the rare occasion I find that I am unable to get my usual 6 hours of sleep a night I have used modafinil to great effect. People are fond of telling me the two drugs don’t mix well. That’s just not the experience I’ve had. Results may vary.

(The enhanced efficiency that comes with this must be balanced with some form of mindfulness practice. It can be too easy to zip through your day, and not enjoy the best part of life; the people. Infinity lives in a single moment if you can learn to slow down and allow yourself to simply experience life. This isn’t required, but I would tell you that, if you’re not doing this, you’re missing out on a lot of living.)

With respect to your route of administration...you need to take this orally. Whether you put it in a capsule or toss and wash, doesn’t matter (although the ladder will cause heartburn). Do not screw around insuflating this. I’m not even going to mention other routes of administration, because if you’re considering them you’re not the person that should be doing this. If you want to understand my reasoning on this, look up “conditioned place preference”. HOW you do this drug, because if it’s dopaminergic effects, can potentially lead to establishing a routine that will only complicate ceasing or reducing your dose when required, and it will be required. I highly recommend not taking every weekend off as another method of mitigating tachyphylaxis (tolerance) but I’ll confess that sometimes I have things I’m doing on weekends that require the same level of mental performance that I have during the week, so I don’t always stick to this. You will, however, seriously maximize your benefit at the lowest possible dose by taking drug holidays each weekend where you continue your other supplements as usual.

Understand, the real benefit for this drug comes in SMALL doses. I measure each of mine and find that 10~15 mg is as much as I ever need to reap the benefits. More than that might feel good, but then here’s where that self awareness and discipline come in. If you want to do this successfully, “feel good” cannot be the focus.

I think that’s all I have to say. Hope this helps someone.

Edited by mandaryn, 20 January 2021 - 01:00 PM.


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#7 mandaryn

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 03:35 PM

Corrections: it’s 5g of creatine twice daily.

**do not, under any circumstance, take Tranylcypromine or any othe MAOi with this drug. Very bad.****
MAOis and any amphetamine derivative, in combination, are profoundly risky. I know, I know, Selegiline. Rare exception. Just don’t do it.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: methamphetamine, amphetamine, tranylcypromine, maoi, antidepressant

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