209 replies to this topic

[zoolander]

It would be great to get Aubrey involved here. I'll invite him

[doug123]

Most successful teams goals go through some sort of painful transfiguration along the way towards success; this group hasn't been able to escape any pain along the way and we're not even close to done yet. However, we must also embrace the fact that not all groups of individuals with the same good intentions can or should function as a team. Every organization has some members who make contributions as solo performers. Also, individuals can work well as a team...but they don't think well as a team.

To assess how well we are working as a team to achieve our goals along the way we should ask:

1. What does ImmInst produce, and does it fit the standards or expectations of the membership?

2. Are we learning to achieve more in shorter order as a group over time?

3. Finally, does being a member of the production team here confer benefits to to each contributor's natural language processing and peace of mind?

Just thoughts.

[ag24]

Hi all - I'm up grimly early to go visit my mother and not at my most perceptive, nor lucid, but since zoolander asked so nicely...

I think the form and content of the new front page are both great. Regarding the branding aspect (the motto etc), I don't really have much more to say than I did early in this thread - anyone who is interested in giving people more than calorie restriction will is going to be called an immortalist like it or not, so we should learn to live with it. I respect Duke's honest advice on this, but I maintain that pandering to the "wack factor" associated with extreme life extension is a losing battle and that it is truly possible to instead do as I do and break down that knee-jerk reaction by just having really good answers to everything.

Another thing that occurs to me is that there is nothing really wrong with ImmInst being mainly a discussion forum as opposed to a place where stuff gets done. Talking has value too. I don't have high hopes for getting lots of gerontology researchers here; even at the GRG there are under a dozen who post regularly and most of those (including me...) would be rated as more talkers than doers by most mainstream experimentalists. I don't know what can be done that's more effective in that regard. This doesn't apply to the younger generation though: it's becoming more acceptable to work in aging research because you want to postpone aging, so being seen here is no longer such a risk to one's career prospects as it might once have been.

I'll try and post more later - meanwhile I must run for a train...

[zoolander]

Thanks Aubrey. I'll send you over some good weather

[doug123]

LEF has over 100,000 members that pay $75 per year to be part of their organization. Given that there are over 250 million citizens of the US (and I think LEF has International members too), I guess you could call that a statistically small group. They are based in Florida, near all the retired folks.

The real issue for ImmInst is to decide if it wants to be a discussion board or an organization with real goals and objectives. Instead of aiming towards production, ImmInst could be a forum for exchange of ideas etc. They are both practical and reasonable alternatives. I am happy with either.

[zoolander]

I use to be a member of LEF. The only reason I became a member is to get discounts on their supplements and that's it. Their mags are full of marketing disguised as articles

[doug123]

Their magazines look real good -- in my recycling bin.

[DJS]

Aubrey

Talking has value too.

Agreed. Some here might discount it, but there is certainly something to be said for *meme projection*. I can think of quite a few young individuals who have decided to focus their professional aspirations on life extension because of their interaction on ImmInst.

[DukeNukem]

I respect Duke's honest advice on this, but I maintain that pandering to the "wack factor" associated with extreme life extension is a losing battle and that it is truly possible to instead do as I do and break down that knee-jerk reaction by just having really good answers to everything.

I'll repeat something I emphasized earlier: Imminst can be approachable to first-time visitors without abandoning its scientific foundation. We just need to stay away from loaded words ("immortality" -- at least on the front page!), ideas that come off as extremist ("infinite lifespans"), and difficult wording (or jargonized wording, that requires previous knowledge within the field).

BTW, while my king comment was not meant to be serious, it's clear to me this place does need a leader who's willing to lead. Practically any venture run by committee will result in a watered-down product. I just do not see anyone here who can pull the trigger and get things down -- this place seems paralyzed with conflicting ideas, and no one is capable of cherry picking ideas and saying, "These are the ones we're going with."

Again, if Immisnt were a business, it would fail. There's no leader here. Or am I missing something (or someone)?

[Bruce Klein]

Hey, Duke... again, ImmInst is not a for-profit business and we're currenlty unable to have paid staff. Our Chair is in the middle of a move across the United States in order to attain a job in order to feed his family... a challenge faced by nearly all of ImmInst's volunteers.

But, I gotta hand it to ya... you've got the art of gripe down to a science [thumb]

[DukeNukem]

Bruce,

Perhaps my gripe is pointing out a legit flaw. Businesses that are run by committee most often fail, or produce average products. Organizations need leaders, who are willing to lead, make key calls, clarify the vision, point in the direction to go.

If I ran my business under committee rule, it would have failed a decade ago. Imminst is run by committee, right? If the answer is yes, then expecting it to really better itself is expecting a miracle.

[Bruce Klein]

Duke,

What you're looking for is an Executive Director. ImmInst will eventually be able to hire one, but we'll need to become more successful at fundraising to do so... unless you're willing to take on the job as a volunteer

[Mind]

Public corporations have a board of directors that oversee the big picture, while the executive handles the day-to-day operation. The CEO focuses on defined tasks and has wide decision making abilities with regard to those tasks. Right now at Imminst the board of directors is also trying to manage the day-to day operations, this works to keep the org together, but it is a difficult situation when trying to get projects off the ground. Like I mentioned earlier....if Imminst had just a couple paid staff, a lot more would get done a lot quicker, membership would be rising more, we would have a conference again this year...etc.

We have enough money to pay one person for a half a year, or pay 2 people for 3 months (no benefits). It would be a gamble to hire a couple people with the hopes that they would be able to raise enough funds in 3 months to justify their positions. With the right people it would be the right move.

[DukeNukem]

Duke,

What you're looking for is an Executive Director.  ImmInst will eventually be able to hire one, but we'll need to become more successful at fundraising to do so... unless you're willing to take on the job as a volunteer

I'm not in any way suggesting I'm the right person! I'm just saying someone needs to fill that role. (And I'm not in the running. [tung] )

Public corporations have a board of directors that oversee the big picture, while the executive handles the day-to-day operation.

Mind, have you read business books like Good to Great and dozens of others? CEOs rarely rely on their boards to run the company and set strategy and direction. Boards pretty much rubber stamp these things. Boards are more useful for their connections, rather than for guiding companies. I've been the director with companies before, and it's a free ride type of job. Directors, for the most part, are nearly inconsequential when a good leader is in place. When directors start playing a meaningful role, that's a tell-tale sign a company is in need of help.

I wouldn't think that the leader needs to be paid, at least at first -- it's far more important to just have a leader to begin with -- someone not afraid to pull the trigger on goals and ideas. Otherwise, this will be a topic that pops up year after year, as Imminst continues to struggle for members. I cannot stress enough that running this place with a bunch of directors pulling in different directions will lead this place no where.

[jaydfox]

Businesses that are run by committee most often fail, or produce average products. Organizations need leaders, who are willing to lead, make key calls, clarify the vision, point in the direction to go.

If I ran my business under committee rule, it would have failed a decade ago. Imminst is run by committee, right? If the answer is yes, then expecting it to really better itself is expecting a miracle.

Great, show us someone qualified to do the work, who has 30+ hours a week to dedicate for free, and we'll give 'em an interview.

[jaydfox]

My vision for this place, as a second stage in its evolution, is to embark on a journey that rewards our passion more directly than the satisfaction of an occasional rant. I'm talking about using the momentum of the Institute to dramatically increase and enrich membership, increase revenues and opportunities for investment and direct proceeds towards the sponsorship of strategic research.

Not research that is governed by the politics of university funding, or the profit priorities of big pharma, but research that is driven by the Immortality Institute imperative. I would call this The I3 Strategic Research Group and its sole purpose would be research into achieving escape velocity. Nothing fancy or requiring multimillion dollar foundations. Just key research into stem cell biology. Initially, I3 would participate by sponsoring and assisting in hypothesis design. In parallel it would seek to build an IP portfolio (don't be frightened at patent costs - if we write them ourselves the costs are a small fraction of what the attorney's charge).

The issue of IP and patents came up about 1-1.5 years ago, if I recall correctly, and we started to make momentum on discussion, but then it kind of fell by the wayside (sadly, as so many projects here do when we get burdened by the lack of dedicated leadership--not dedicated as in personal dedication, but dedicated as to available time).

I'd like to see something like this pursued, in conjunction with our many other good ideas. Sadly, short of getting increased availability of volunteer time, we need more funding.

Which brings us back to fundraising.

[doug123]

The counter point to Duke was in relation to his comment of:

The point I was making Adam about core values refers to the commitment to the democratic process which is messy, difficult, often frustrating for all involved and vastly preferable to all other methods of resolving disputes such as we are experiencing.  We do not have one core value above all others except that we promote maximum life extension.

I don't expect some king of man or sun to come here and play savior.  In fact I instinctively mistrust anyone that wants the job and makes promises of salvation.  However that never stopped this approach from being very pragmatically effective at separating fools from their money by exploiting the desperate.

It also no matter how successful in the end at achieving some positive result in spite of its shallow and empty promise ever made such an approach anything but corrupt.

Mind being more specific? IE use specific cases instead of abstractions?

[doug123]

My vision for this place, as a second stage in its evolution, is to embark on a journey that rewards our passion more directly than the satisfaction of an occasional rant. I'm talking about using the momentum of the Institute to dramatically increase and enrich membership, increase revenues and opportunities for investment and direct proceeds towards the sponsorship of strategic research.

Not research that is governed by the politics of university funding, or the profit priorities of big pharma, but research that is driven by the Immortality Institute imperative. I would call this The I3 Strategic Research Group and its sole purpose would be research into achieving escape velocity. Nothing fancy or requiring multimillion dollar foundations. Just key research into stem cell biology. Initially, I3 would participate by sponsoring and assisting in hypothesis design. In parallel it would seek to build an IP portfolio (don't be frightened at patent costs - if we write them ourselves the costs are a small fraction of what the attorney's charge).

The issue of IP and patents came up about 1-1.5 years ago, if I recall correctly, and we started to make momentum on discussion, but then it kind of fell by the wayside (sadly, as so many projects here do when we get burdened by the lack of dedicated leadership--not dedicated as in personal dedication, but dedicated as to available time).

I'd like to see something like this pursued, in conjunction with our many other good ideas. Sadly, short of getting increased availability of volunteer time, we need more funding.

Which brings us back to fundraising.

Jay: what part of California do you live in? Perhaps we could meet up (if you live close enough) and discuss some fundraising possibilities privately.

[doug123]

Mind, have you read business books like Good to Great and dozens of others?  CEOs rarely rely on their boards to run the company and set strategy and direction.  Boards pretty much rubber stamp these things.  Boards are more useful for their connections, rather than for guiding companies.  I've been the director with companies before, and it's a free ride type of job.  Directors, for the most part, are nearly inconsequential when a good leader is in place.  When directors start playing a meaningful role, that's a tell-tale sign a company is in need of help.

I wouldn't think that the leader needs to be paid, at least at first -- it's far more important to just have a leader to begin with -- someone not afraid to pull the trigger on goals and ideas.  Otherwise, this will be a topic that pops up year after year, as Imminst continues to struggle for members.  I cannot stress enough that running this place with a bunch of directors pulling in different directions will lead this place no where.

Once again, Duke comes in with the harder truth of the matter. I wish I could comment more, but I am going to see if I can keep up with a summer session Math course (my chances at success are quite low, however).

[jaydfox]

Jay: what part of California do you live in?

Central California, between Fresno and Bakersfield. But in late July or early August, I'll most likely be at a customer location in Simi Valley, during the work week.

[doug123]

Central California, between Fresno and Bakersfield. But in late July or early August, I'll most likely be at a customer location in Simi Valley, during the work week.

That's not too far from me. I have to go up to LA this week to have my car serviced and help my friends little sister re-install Windows. We should meet up for lunch or something, my treat. I can come to you or you can come to me.

As far as ideas off of the top of my head: nothing really special yet. I can ask others I know that have generated significant capital for other successful organizations (profit and non profit) for tips, and bounce them off of you for size.

[jaydfox]

Central California, between Fresno and Bakersfield. But in late July or early August, I'll most likely be at a customer location in Simi Valley, during the work week.

That's not too far from me. I have to go up to LA this week to have my car serviced and help my friends little sister re-install Windows. We should meet up for lunch or something...

This week I'm in Central California. Next week I'm in Chicago. It'll be at least a couple weeks before I'm in Simi Valley.

[doug123]

This week I'm in Central California. Next week I'm in Chicago. It'll be at least a couple weeks before I'm in Simi Valley

I hope you enjoy your 4th of July with your family. We'll see what's up in a few weeks...

Bruce said:

So, what is the Next Level?

Ultimately, I envision ImmInst creating an office in DC. With an office, ImmInst will systematically influence decision makers to the benefit of our members and the mission to overcome involuntary death for everyone. An office with a handful of paid and volunteer staff members would allow us the energy to 1) more efficiently raise money 2) more efficiently influence decision makers in DC (lobbying), and 3) more effectively implement projects (better conferences, films, journals, books, etc).

What is the ImmInst 100 Pledge?

The goal of the ImmInst 100 Pledge is to raise enough money for a DC office + 2 paid employees.

I suggest this only happen after we secure more than 1M in funding+pledges.

Thus, a near-term strategy toward this goal is to secure at least 100 one-time pledges of $1,000 or more. Depending on the success of this first step, additional pledge drives may be implemented.

I think it's a good time to discuss "the Next Level."

We might run into trouble trying to lobby "Immortality" to congressional representatives. Maybe we need some kind of peacemeal plan...based on our current technologies, Immortality might sound far fetched; would it not -- especially to an elected official? An extended lifespan...longer life...

If we plan to advance on Washington, we would then need an agenda. And a million dollars (according to Bruce's estimate).

Is everyone in accord regarding the Next Level? Are there other, conflicting goals that might interfere?

[doug123]

P.S. I (personally) DO NOT want to go to Washington...

Are there any members with DC political expertise?

[doug123]

What is the general consensus about this issue?

[Bruce Klein]

Adam, perhaps you could create a new topic for this discussion?

[doug123]

I don't even know what "that" topic is, really. Recently, prometheus has been the one taking the most initiative...I'm just following his lead...happily.

The new front page looks bad ass. Great work, Harold! It was good to see the community work together to achieve something! Let's try to keep it up.

[Bruce Klein]

I agree... Harold has made an excellent change happen!