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Mental imagery


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#1 acoli

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 05:58 AM


Many people on this forum have reported their brain fog and fatigue. One defect in particular is their mental imagery, which they say used to be vivid when they were younger and is now murky and very hard to maintain. This is also my case. When I was younger I had razor sarp images and could get lost in my own world, now I have flickers of images and feel that I don't have enough energy to maintain mental pictures. What are the BEST supplements to return me to my former state, perhaps a substance that increases metabolism and blood flow in the parietal lobe, the center of mental imagery? When you get older you get smarter, not stupider(ya I know I'm stating the obvious), so why do I feel so much dumber than when I was younger especially in regard to mental imagery. BTW, I am getting thyroid checked, previous tests showed I am on the hypo side.

#2 emerson

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:00 AM

I almost hate myself for drifting into something so seemingly "foo foo new age" as what I'm about to suggest. But, what can I say, it's worked far better for me in this respect than any pill.

Write down your dreams every morning. Each and every one, with no exception or delay in getting directly to it on waking. For most people dreams are intensely heavy on imagery. The act of writing them down has a number of potentials for offering the improvements you're looking for. By writing down your dreams, your recall of the imagery will improve. You'll get active practice and training in manipulating large amounts of remembered visual data as you work out what aspects went in which sequence or location. And along with that is the chance to directly combine the written word with image heavy experiences.

Not scientific to be sure, and I do find myself a bit annoyed to be offering up advice so unsubstantiated by actual study. But, oh well, anecdotal evidence for the perceived win.

When you get older you get smarter, not stupider(ya I know I'm stating the obvious)


I'd argue that it's more a potential for wisdom which comes from life experience. But, along with that comes a lot of unfortunate aspects of aging. Like everything else, our brains don't have an easy ride into old age. The older we get, the more neurons die and the faster the rate at which it occurs. The plasticity which allows for learning and adaptation to new situations becomes more and more difficult. The neurotransmitters and other chemicals that govern so much of our mental processes wind up becoming more and more scarce as the body struggles to keep up production with failing mechanisms. We may kick ass when it comes to using some of those established neural circuits, but making modifications to them is probably going to prove a lot more difficult than it would be to a youngster. Yet another negative for older brains is age-related neurological disease. Most of them don't suddenly appear overnight, and may even slowly creep into effect over a nine or ten year period of steadily lowered mental function. Time in which a person certainly isn't suffering from any kind of dementia, but whose edge is being rapidly dulled all the same.

Still, with all that there's the flip side that comes from having seen enough of the environment around one to get a good grasp of nuances that those younger would miss. And there's certainly evidence that keeping ones brain active into old age will do a lot of good in keeping it functioning far better than ones contemporaries. There's also a fair amount of evidence showing that the brain attempts to adapt itself to what the persons habits as age sets in. A kind of emergency system that kicks out systems which aren't of much use to allow for necessary regions with lowering functionality to grab onto those resources in an attempt to stabilise itself. There was a recent study of how young and old brains work when confronted with facial recognition that bears this theory out pretty well.

All in all a lot has to be taken on an individual basis. Genetics plays a huge role here. And like most biological processes, exercise of those functions has at least a strong chance of mitigating damage while hopefully still gaining those positive mental aspects of age. And as the topic here suggests, there's a lot of potential for chemical intervention. When it comes to the brain, a little can go a very long way. And the bulk of evidence for most nootropics has seen the best showcase within an aging population.

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#3 acoli

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 07:19 PM

Iwill take your idea into consideration. Does anyone know a supplement that actually eases my ability to mentally imagine pictures, perhaps pyritinol wich increases conduction velocity which is liked to the ability to picture? Its not so much a total lack of ability as it is trying to make a conscious effort to picture and maintain, ie. when I'm wanking I hardly have trouble with visualization, probably because my thinking speed is increased?

#4 gcurrie

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 10:37 PM

I'll also state the obvious right up front:

1) Exercise
2) Nutrition

What worked when you were 20 may no longer be effective at 30 or 40. My overall metabolic rate was higher in my twenties than now (48).

Make no mistake - mental acuity is directly dependent on sufficient exercise and nutrition appropriate to your particular physiology. If you've got water in your gasoline, your Porsche just isn't going to purr down the autobahn...

So assuming you are taking care of the first two things, my #1 recommendation for brain fog is vinpocetine. It's cheap, it's available in health stores, studied extensively.

My current belief is that certain supplements can help get one "over the hump" and using your cognitive abilities again. Then you start "rebuilding the muscles." Much like going back to the gym after a long time off. Given a little time, positive effects appear.

#5 acoli

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 11:02 PM

The thing is I'm only 17. I should not be experiencing cognitive decline so early. I am taking ortho-mind with vincopocetine and am seeing only a modest improvement. I ordered idebenone, centrophenoxine, and pyritinol. My TSH is greater than at least 95% of people. I am not asking for a monumental jump in my intelligence, only that I be as mentally sharp and clear and able to visualize as I was when I was younger. Btw, I excercise and take a multivitamin.

#6 emerson

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 06:52 AM

At 17, it could also very easily just be a temporary quirk of a rapidly changing metabolism.

#7 acoli

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 04:37 AM

I should of made it clear that high TSH is a sign of low thyroid function, thus my thyroid is only changinf for the worse, and that will be permanent until it is fixed. I should also add that my estrogen is way above the range recommended. So will the noots I suggested have a positive benefit?

Edited by acoli, 02 July 2006 - 07:48 PM.


#8 acoli

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 07:02 PM

Can anyone suggest the best nootropics for this?

#9 acoli

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Posted 04 July 2006 - 10:33 PM

bump

#10 xanadu

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:34 AM

acoli, you've been given several recommendations. There is no magic pill that will do it for you. You need to get your diet in shape as well as yourself. Excercise is very important. I myself find I get a lot of benefits from piracetam but I also use fish oil, bacopa and other things that might help along with vitamins. I think it's a mistake to take a bunch of things at once for the first time. Try one thing at a time and try it long enough that you have a good idea what it does. A few things take weeks or months to show up.

#11 emerson

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 07:23 AM

You need to get your diet in shape as well as yourself.


I couldn't agree more with this statement. You might already be working on it, but if not, it's a very necessary first step. Getting in better shape, both from a viewpoint of nutrition and muscular fitness, can offer a huge boost to mental function. The reverse can hold true as well. Keep in mind that the brain is a part of the body, and just as much hooked up to the blood, nutrient, and oxygen supply as anything else within it.

I really can't think of anything in a pill form that's both legal and liable to increase mental imagery. Even illegal is a bit of a stretch. The only one I'd have much confidence in for your purposes would be participation in the Native American Church, or at least some branches of it. And that's specifically for the fact that they incorporate work 'with' the imagery after the peyote ceremony is over. So that pretty much puts you back to the suggestions of visualisation exercises. Too, unless your heritage could give you an in, you'd be barred both legally and socially from joining anyway. So I'd assume it's not an option, even aside from the fact that the evidence supporting it as a possible aid is anecdotal. Not that there's really much which could be done to measure something pretty much stuck at a subjective level.

My apologies for so often jumping on non-pill related advice, but one other thing did occur to me. Have you ever tried light and sound machines? Those devices which flash small LEDs on glasses, while tones at a similar rate are pumped through headphones? There's a lot of positive effects touted for them, but the only thing I ever really noticed was that after a while my mind began taking the resulting visual noise and creating images from them. A bit like cloud gazing, but quite a bit stronger. The fact that in essence that's a similar process of taking non-related data and creating visual patterns where none exist makes me somewhat hesitatingly offer it up as a recommendation as well.

Sadly, that's about it for me. I racked my brain for anything which might work that hasn't been suggested. Specifically for something in pill form. But for all that I'm fascinated by the field, I really can't think of much that would both fit the bill and which I consider tested enough to put a recommendation behind.

I suppose the best I can offer is a wish of good luck.

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#12 doug123

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 07:54 AM

I really can't think of much that would both fit the bill and which I consider tested enough to put a recommendation behind.

I suppose the best I can offer is a wish of good luck.


I agree. Good luck!

IMHO, your best bet to evoke mental imagery would be to eductate yourself with facts regarding what you want to visualize, then brainstorm...




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