79 replies to this topic

[Mind]

I voted other, only because I think the change to the graphic look and the change to the motto should different votes/discussions.

The graphic layout/look changes are good and I think most people have no problem with it. I like the animated gif banner...sweet! The focus on science and media on the front page is also good.

The motto is a deeper issue and more important and thus should be discussed separately (and only a full member vote). I do not mind "for infinite lifespans". If we wanted to tweak it without changing the attitude of the statement we could go for "for indefinite lifespans". There are many other options. We want to make sure it represents the thoughts/attitudes of the current members while also attracting new people. "For Infinite Lifespans" has worked pretty good so far.

[Bruce Klein]

For the combined image for the header, I combined Jay's image with a background I made with the same color as his image (far easier than making it match the current color, although with a bit of manipulation I probably could get that worked out as well). I suppose the top color would have to be changed to that lighter blue if it were used as is, but that shouldn't be too much trouble (I can supply the exact color if needbe for anyone making edits to the website). I kind of like the lighter blue a little better anyway, cause the shadow from the letters shows up a bit better. Also, the text is slightly modified, but that is very easy to change. The one that is up there now is shown for comparison. I also slowed the last pic down, as per Bruce's request, to half speed, to compare that as well.

Very nice, Nate. Even though one can see the dropdown shadow better with this lighter color, the current darker blue seems to balance the header with the overall page well...

I would send you my PSD version of this, but after four years, I've lost it! I think Jay has lost his PSD rotating graphic file as well...

[Bruce Klein]

Agreed, Mind....

The graphic and slogan should be separate votes from the layout.

Also, whether to include the current mission graphic should also be a separate decision, because removal would be a considerable change to the front page.

[Bruce Klein]

I do not mind "for infinite lifespans". If we wanted to tweak it without changing the attitude of the statement we could go for "for indefinite lifespans".

Although technically more correct, "for indefinite lifespans" as a quick slogan seem to creates a slightly negative impression because it congers up the idea that we are "indefinite," don't have a plan, etc.

[Bruce Klein]

Also, discussion of whether to remove the top blue bar...



...should also be a separate decision because this would remove the "ImmInst.org" link and make the homepage different from all other pages at the Institute.

[DukeNukem]

I think the new/neo design is better, but it still paints this place as a hardcore geek hang-out. For example, the first thing I see is a call for abstracts. As a first time visitor, this is going to scare me off right away! In fact, this place scared me off many times in the past before I decided to devote 30 minutes to looking around, and I finally stumbled into the forums and finally found a few topics that interested me. But, the point is, I really had to work at getting to like this site -- it did nothing on it's own to pull me in. This site is 100% a marketing failure. Truly, it's a case study of all the mistakes a site can make. That's why I basically have give-up syndrome, and don't even want to put time into fixing things, because it needs to be nearly 100% redone, and frankly I do not want to put up with all the resistance I'll meet here.

A critical thing that is missing, for example, is a mission statement on the front page. Something short, compelling, and that pinpoints the reason this place exists, and why anyone should care to be a part of this important movement. In other words, first timers here do not see a story. It's like picking up a new novel, you always turn to the pack cover to get a synopsis of the story -- this is what sells the book. Well, nothing sells ImmInst -- there's no sales text. And even digging around in the About menu I still can't find the type of text I'm talking about.

This place is nerdsville to the max. And I sense that most people here want to keep it that way. And even though the new look is an improvement, it doesn't improve the chances of ImmInst becoming a meaningful site for those interested in open-ended life extension.

[Live Forever]

Here is another banner, this time with the darker colors:







The one now, for comparison:




Here it is moving slightly slower:



I can tell that this one went too far being too dark, compared to the old one, but you get the idea. It is possible to change the color. This one is slightly smaller (44 KB) than the lighter one from earlier.

[Bruce Klein]

Duke, this was an inadvertent remark on your part (your last sentence) but as a slogan, "open-ended life extension" seems interesting... perhaps changing "for infinite lifespans" to "for open-ended lifespans"

"Open-ended" has a positive leaning and keeps with our mission to conquer the blight of "involuntary" death.

[Bruce Klein]

Great work, Nate.

Would it be possible to use the existing "ImmInst.org" lettering and then have two versions, one with "For Infinite Lifespans" and one with "For Open-Ended Lifepans"? (both w/ rotating graphic slower version)

[doug123]

I have a pretty good idea of what Duke is seeing. The ideas in the forums are not totally out of the ordinary. The ideas on the front page could translate to active topics more effectively and accurately. It's weekend and I'm out...

[doug123]

Where's Jay?

[doug123]

Duke, this was an inadvertent remark on your part (your last sentence) but as a slogan, "open-ended life extension" seems interesting... perhaps changing "for infinite lifespans" to "for open-ended lifespans" 

"Open-ended" has a positive leaning and keeps with our mission to conquer the blight of "involuntary" death.

I like "for open-ended lifespans" too..I probably should read through all the comments before posting...but I get impatient sometimes...

[Bruce Klein]

Jay is currently moving from GA to CA.

[Bruce Klein]

Duke: A critical thing that is missing, for example, is a mission statement on the front page.

Duke, are you referring to the current or new design? The current homepage has the following...



...which is ImmInst's mission:

[DukeNukem]

Duke, this was an inadvertent remark on your part (your last sentence) but as a slogan, "open-ended life extension" seems interesting... perhaps changing "for infinite lifespans" to "for open-ended lifespans" 

"Open-ended" has a positive leaning and keeps with our mission to conquer the blight of "involuntary" death.

Bruce, I've had this phrase in my ImmInst bio all along. [tung] Anyway, it's a good descriptive phrase ("Open-ended lifespans."), yet not necessarily catchy. It's definitely an improvement because it doesn't seem too far-fetched. It's approachable, and somewhat reasonable to anyone with an open mind.

I still think the site needs a short summary statement, written in non-jargon, that's provides a compelling, inspirational reason to care about this site (and hopefully become a member). However, before this statement can be written, it has to be fact. Therefore, I ask, why should anyone join ImmInst?

[Live Forever]

Great work, Nate.

Would it be possible to use the existing "ImmInst.org" lettering and then have two versions, one with "For Infinite Lifespans" and one with "For Open-Ended Lifepans"? (both w/ rotating graphic slower version)

Sure, that is possible. Also, the text can be changed in a variety of ways. Here are some different text designs just off the top of my head, there are a ton of other ones. I am not including the rotating graphic on all of them, because that takes some extra work, and will hold off on doing that until there is more of a consensus on what to do, because editing with the rotating graphic takes awhile, since you have to do 24 frames every time.

In any event, here are some different styles that I just thought of, like I said there are tons more, these are just to get ideas:


























Also, different fonts could be used:

[DukeNukem]

BTW, the Section 2 of Article 2 is something like what I'm talking about in my previous message, although this is not written in a compelling way. Plus, anytime the word "immortality" is used, expect to drive people away.

It needs to be understood that the use of the word "immortality" is a net negative.

[doug123]

BTW, the Section 2 of Article 2 is something like what I'm talking about in my previous message, although this is not written in a compelling way.  Plus, anytime the word "immortality" is used, expect to drive people away.

It needs to be understood that the use of the word "immortality" is a net negative.

The use of the word "Immortality" is something that first time visitors need time to understand. I can't talk about infinite series if people don't know their calculus...how can one understand the Integral test if they don't understand what it means to integrate?

We have not achieved Immortality yet; so implications...

[Bruce Klein]

Nate... this seems close:

Duke: Bruce, I've had this phrase in my ImmInst bio all along. tung.gif Anyway, it's a good descriptive phrase ("Open-ended lifespans."), yet not necessarily catchy. It's definitely an improvement because it doesn't seem too far-fetched. It's approachable, and somewhat reasonable to anyone with an open mind.

Agreed.

Extropy Institute has used "open-ended lifespan" within their first principle of Perpetual Progress: "Extropy means seeking more intelligence, wisdom, and effectiveness, an open-ended lifespan, and the removal of political, cultural, biological, and psychological limits to continuing development."
http://www.extropy.org/principles.htm

Charles Platt has used the term in his "Life Unlimited" essay: "Maybe this sounds like science fiction. But many sober, intelligent people have decided that cryonics could work, and for them, the chance of an open-ended lifespan has changed their whole outlook on what it means to be alive."
http://www.cryonet.o...sp.cgi?msg=0024

George Dvorsky at Betterhumans has used the term:
"Would you like to achieve an open-ended lifespan and enter into a post-biological phase of existence?"
http://archives.bett...98/Default.aspx

Tom Craver talks about it at within the blog at the Center for Responsible Nanotechnology: "Acceptance of the idea of an open-ended lifespan is still fringe, but a rapidly growing fringe. I expect we'll see some major anti-aging progress within the next decade, with accompanying major controversy."
http://crnano.typepa..._and_nanot.html

ExtroBritannia 2003:
"We will have two themes for the meeting, Nano & Bio: nanotechnological and biomedical interventions will both be needed to achieve our primary goal of a open-ended lifespan. Both technologies are under intense scrutiny right now and it is time we made our voice heard on the direction we want them to take."
http://extrobritanni...ia_archive.html

[brizzadizza]

As a first draft rework of article 2 section 2 for an easily digestable mission statement how is this:

"Imminst is a community of thinkers devoted to the methods and effects of increased lifespan. We try to serve as a forum for the expression of the latest advancements in research, debate about the possible outcomes and to increase awareness of life-extension across the world. We welcome any and all contributions to our discussion."

Slap that right on the front, fluff it out a bit and bham, you've got a something someone could really start to feel. It's been mentioned before and I think it's worth mentioning again, perhaps we should make ImmInst the official name of The Immortality Institute. Its marketable in the same way FedEx is and it really comes easily to the tongue and fingers. Instead of smacking someone in the face with immortality it allows them to read a little of the work thats been advanced on the subject before putting the immortality idea with ImmInst.

Brandon

[jaydfox]

Jay is currently moving from GA to CA.

Jay is currently out of commission. [tung]

Seriously though, this has been a week from hell (not as bad as the last move, which coincidentally was the week before the conference last November, which basically means I didn't get to enjoy that weekend as much as I would have liked).

Next week's not looking much better. This weekend I'm getting settled in with my family. 4th of July at the coast with my family (i.e., not web surfing), and then I'm in St. Louis for business from the 5th to the 7th.

On top of that, any long blocks of free time that I might get between now and then will be devoted to working on the forum upgrade.

So I leave the front page redesign in other directors' capable hands.

[jaydfox]

Also, discussion of whether to remove the top blue bar...



...should also be a separate decision because this would remove the "ImmInst.org" link and make the homepage different from all other pages at the Institute.

On the home page the blue bar serves only as a link to the forums, which is also available via the a single click on the top menu ("Forums"). Once inside the forums the blue bar becomes more useful for navigational purposes but on the home page it is a waste of space. In respect to consistncy with other pages the home page does not have the user menu (user name, control, PM, etc).

Well, the banner at the top had some consistency issues anyway. The ImmInst.org link goes to the forum home page, so it seems logically as if that's the top level. So when you go to the film project, it's "ImmInst.org » Film", and when you go to the main home page, it's "ImmInst.org » Home", which seems counterintuitive at first. We should maybe rethink this layout, but still try to keep it consistent on all pages.

Just my two cents.

[DukeNukem]

As a first draft rework of  article 2 section 2 for an easily digestible mission statement how is this:

"Imminst is a community of thinkers devoted to the methods and effects of increased lifespan.  We try to serve as a forum for the expression of the latest advancements in research, debate about the possible outcomes and to increase awareness of life-extension across the world.  We welcome any and all contributions to our discussion."

Nice improvement, Brandon. Here's another stab, using yours as a base. The idea is to paint a believable story of progression, drawn from where we've come, to where we are going...


"Imminst is a scientifically-minded community of people just like yourself, interested in realistic methods to increase the average lifespan of all humans. Just as those late in the 19th century were mostly unaware of the coming age of flight, few of us today are aware of the coming age of open-ended lifespans. Although this is a radical idea to most people, it is not fantasy. Well before 2020 there is every indication that we will have mice that can live indefinitely -- there's a rapid convergence of technologies and breakthroughs leading to this outcome, and it is widely regarded as inevitable. And a decade or two later, primates will follow, and soon after... humans. Practically all people born in this century will have the option to live as long as they like, eventually enjoying the benefits of rejuvenation therapies that keep them young, vital and in great health -- all for the betterment of humankind.

Learn more within the discussion forums, and contribute to the effort by joining as a full member."


Okay, this is a quick first draft, and it's long! But I'll leave it for others to comment on.

[Live Forever]

Also, it might be helpful to have a link to a more "permanent" FAQ than the wiki one, to let people know about what we are about. I know that when I am first visiting a website, I often check out the FAQ page to learn more.

[Bruce Klein]

Nice work, Brandon and Duke. I've pulled a bit from you guys... this version has less of a biological stance, which would be in keeping with our egalitarian life extension focus, and also mentions our 'practical' projects:

--
The Immortality Institute is a scientifically-minded community of people focused on advancing practical methods to achieve open-ended lifespans. Life extension may seem far-fetched to many, but it's not a fantasy. Driven by a convergence of numerous technological advancements, including Biotechnology, Nanotechnology and Artificial Intelligence, progress in life extension has already started. To accelerate this progress, the Institute hosts an online forum, publishes books, creates films, and sponsors conferences in order to advance global awareness.
--

[doug123]

That is a good re working of Brandon's statement that applies and it is also pretty casual. I also liked Brandon and Don's ideas on the active topic stuff. It seems we are in a new era of productivity...let's keep to it...

[Infernity]

That's beautiful Great job.




I'd do the new structure, with this at the top, before the "projects".

-Infernity