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Senescence-associated-β-galactosidase (SA-β-gal), NAD my issues

senescence-associated-β-galactosidase sa-β-gal fisetin quercetin jinfiniti dasatinib foxo4-dri

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#1 BrentS

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 12:41 AM


I had my Senescence-associated-β-galactosidase (SA-β-gal) levels measured by a newish company called Jinfinity. Website here:

 

https://www.jinfiniti.com

 

My SA-β-gal were measured at 2190.  That is almost three times higher than the optimal max, which they list at 750.  The blood draw date was 5 Jul 2021.  I got the results near the end of the month, but I had already decided (based on gut feelings, yes I know that is subjective) that high senescence was likely a problem, so I started a Fisetin/Quercetin cycle.  I bought Fisetin and Quercetin from Swanson Vitamins.  But I only bought 3 bottles of Fisetin, as I did not realize how small (100mg) the capsules were.  I started off slowly to test for side effects.

 

6 Jul 2021 - took 500mg each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with half a glass of olive oil

7 Jul 2021 - took 1g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with half a glass of olive oil

8 Jul 2021 - took 2g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with three quarters of a glass of olive oil.  I don't like the aftertaste of the olive oil, will try avocado oil tomorrow.

9 Jul 2021 - took 3g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a glass of avocado oil

10 Jul 2021 took 2.5g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a glass of avocado oil.  I dropped down because this was all I had left.  Next cycle in 6 weeks I will buy more bottles than 3.  Also I need to find better tasting olive oil.

 

I think the Mayo clinic is doing 2 days on and a month off. but I want to maintain my workout cycle, so I am going to do more days at once with a 6 week break between them.  I noticed no side effects, or any effects at all from the amounts I took. 

 

Once I got the results from Jinfiniti I gave them to my family doctor and asked him for a prescription for Dasatinib, but he is booking me to see a specialist, as he said that is not his area of expertise.

 

Jinfiniti also measured my NAD levels, inside the cells the levels are fine (48.1, which is well into optimal range), but outside the cells and levels are worryingly low (measured at 80, and minimum should be 450+).  I am guessing that the high senescence is causing my body to produce a lot of CD38, which is an enzyme that destroys NAD in the plasma.  I have ordered a large supply of Apigenin from DoNotAge.com, so I will start to take 500mg a day of that when it arrives (will do that for a year or so to control the CD38 until I can get the senescence levels under control)

 

Here is the specific product I ordered:

 

https://donotage.org.../pure-apigenin/

 

Other than Fisetin, Quercetin, Dasatinib (which is very expensive) I have also read on the forums about FOXO4-DRI, but that also seems very expensive, and none of these have any direct trials on SA-β-gal levels as measured in the blood (that I can find).

 

Not really sure what the optimal path forward is.  Oh, I weigh just under 100 kilograms, so I use slightly large amounts of supplements than the average person.


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#2 Florin

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 02:01 AM

Did your SA-β-gal and NAD levels change after you took the senolytics?



#3 BrentS

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Posted 05 August 2021 - 02:19 AM

Did your SA-β-gal and NAD levels change after you took the senolytics?

 

I did the first test on 5 Jul 2021, and I got the results last week.  I am planning to do 3 to 5 cycles of supplements, 6 weeks apart, then do a second test.  The tests are pricey, and I cannot afford to do them monthly, or weekly.


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#4 Kentavr

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Posted 11 August 2021 - 05:38 PM

Good afternoon!
 
Quercetin can purposefully accumulate in some body tissues, avoiding other body tissues. In order for it to penetrate into all tissues of the body, quercetin in liposomes can be considered.
In addition, it is better absorbed, and for this reason it can be more effective than regular quercetin. Have you considered this option?

Edited by Kentavr, 11 August 2021 - 05:39 PM.


#5 BrentS

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Posted 12 August 2021 - 09:43 PM

 

Good afternoon!
 
Quercetin can purposefully accumulate in some body tissues, avoiding other body tissues. In order for it to penetrate into all tissues of the body, quercetin in liposomes can be considered.
In addition, it is better absorbed, and for this reason it can be more effective than regular quercetin. Have you considered this option?

 

 

I considered it yes. but I would not know how to balance the Quercetin and Fisetin if the Quercetin was liposomal.  Right now I can just take equal amounts of both, as capsules, and the cost is not completely prohibitive to take enough that it should be able to push past the liver degrading amounts.  I would have to wait for some studies done on liposomal quercetin to see how the bio-availability compares to the capsule form, and then I would have to work out how much Fisetin to take to balance it.

 

In other news, my Apigenin arrived yesterday.  I took a capsule, 250mg, with supper.  Seemed to have a slight case of diarrhea a few hours afterwards, and then after that felt extremely hungry.  The plan is to take 250mg twice a day, one with breakfast and one with supper, but can't do that if diarrhea will be a problem.  Will try for a few days and see if my body can adapt to it.


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#6 BrentS

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 03:09 AM

Update on cycle 2:

 

20 Aug 2021 - took 3g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a glass of olive oil.  Had a mild headache afterwards, so went to bed early.  Next morning, urine had a strong smell.

21 Aug 2021 - took 3g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a glass of olive oil.  No headache today or urine smell, perhaps yesterday was an anomaly?

22 Aug 2021 - took 4g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a glass of olive oil.

23 Aug 2021 - took 4g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a glass of olive oil.

24 Aug 2021 - took 5g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

 

Used EMI brand olive oil, more expensive but the taste is not as strong.  Total olive oil used this time was just over 1L.  I was going to increase the amount of supplements by 1g each per day, but I decided after the headache on the first day to repeat that same amount.  When i didn't get the headache again then i increased on day 3 and again on day 5.

 

I am wondering if a better protocol might be to do 1 day every 2 weeks (or even 1 day per week) instead of 5 days every 6 weeks.  But no data at all exists yet afaik.

 

I am still planning to do 2 more cycles and then blood test senescence level again.

 

To update the above Apigenin post, after the second day I noticed no effects on stools from Apigenin.  It has been a few weeks now, and I have not noticed an energy increase either, but will not know for two more cycles whether the Apigenin is having any effect on plasma NAD levels.


Edited by BrentS, 27 August 2021 - 03:13 AM.

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#7 BrentS

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 08:25 PM

Update on cycle 3:

 

8 October 2021 - took 5g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

9 October 2021 - took 5g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

10 October 2021 - took 5g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

11 October 2021 - took 5g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

12 October 2021 - took 6g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

 

In total I used about a liter and a half of EMI brand olive oil this cycle.  At 6g it was taking about an hour and a half to swallow all the capsules.  No headache or any other effects observed this cycle.  I am planning on doing one more cycle in another 7 weeks, then waiting 2 weeks and doing a second blood test to see if it made a difference.


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#8 BrentS

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Posted 06 December 2021 - 11:19 AM

Update on cycle 4:

 

26 November 2021 - took 7g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.  This cycle I am opening the fisetin capsules and mixing the fisetin powder with the olive oil, still taking Quercetin first in capsule form

27 November 2021 - took 8g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.  Got bad diarrhea, so this appears to be about my limit, so will back down to 6g for the rest of the cycle.  Taking a day off to let my guts settle.

29 November 2021 - took 6g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

30 November 2021 - took 6g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

1 December 2021 - took 6g each of Fisetin and Quercetin, swallowed them with a slightly more than a glass of olive oil.

 

I will have to decide this week whether to do another cycle or get blood tests in another week and a half.  Not certain of optimal path forwards.  The only change I have noticed is my recovery time when working out has decreased from 15 to 20 mins between sets down to 10 to 15 mins between sets, so that is a nice change.  Strength levels are not increasing any faster than before though.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: senescence-associated-β-galactosidase, sa-β-gal, fisetin, quercetin, jinfiniti, dasatinib, foxo4-dri

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