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Smarten Up!


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#1 doug123

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:30 AM


Where is Dr. Danielle Turner?...I'm infatuated with her...is she "available?" LOL I'm definately not qualified enough for her...oh well...

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Smarten Up!

Danielle Turner, Cambridge University Dept. of Psychiatry

Can we all be brilliant? Bit by bit thousands of researchers are trying to untangle the workings of the brain. But how near are we to understanding what turns some people's brains on and gives them a competitive advantage? Attempts to improve our performance and potential to succeed are not new pastimes, and stories of mystical concoctions and "Viagras for the brain" continue to fill our newspapers.

It isn't really surprising we are entranced by the complexity within us. Take your brain. Try to picture its 100 billion neurones, or brain cells, flawlessly working together to control your every thought, passion, feeling, sensation and movement. Incredible? What if you knew that each typical neurone has between 1,000 and 10,000 connections to other neurones? Mix in over a hundred different chemical agents, or neurotransmitters, to regulate the neurones, add a few million supporting cells and blood vessels and then you have it: your brain, all packed beautifully into about 1,400 g.

People have always been fascinated with artificially improving the brain. Today, shops are filled with products suggesting solutions to all of life's woes: drinks to help you remember, tablets to help you study, capsules to make you more alert. But do these 'wonder drugs' really emerge from an understanding of how our brains actually work? Are we really able to target people's problems selectively and safely, or are we merely providing a clumsy way to escape life's inadequacies without really addressing the cause of its problems? Understandably, many are concerned that the widespread availability of drugs to super-humanise healthy people can only have the knock-on effect of sufferers never solving their problems for themselves.

In the Department of Psychiatry at Cambridge University, we recently identified a new effect of a drug called modafinil. This drug was introduced to help narcolepsy sufferers stay awake, but we found it also improved certain mental abilities in our volunteers, without the side effects commonly experienced with mental stimulants. Healthy male volunteers performed significantly more accurately in neuropsychological tests involving short-term memory, and responded less impulsively - they tended to reflect more upon the tasks they were given, almost to 'stop and think'.

So we can enhance healthy volunteers' performance in memory games and now understand a little more how to unravel the components of memory and attention. Is this potentially a ray of hope for the thousands of people suffering from neurological and psychiatric disorders? Have we discovered a safe way to improve mental performance and increase our understanding of the more complex workings of the brain?

While our studies centred on healthy volunteers who remain essential to this research, the real people who will benefit are those with serious problems hampering their everyday functioning. For example, we identified an improvement in mental performance brought about by a decrease in impulsivity. This suggests that it may be possible to help patients with neuropsychiatric disorders like Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), who, apart from being impulsive, suffer from selective impairments in memory, problem-solving and planning. Drugs such as amphetamine and methylphenidate (Ritalin) are still used to improve some aspects of these people's performance, but have the disadvantage of causing impairments in other brain functions. Worse, these drugs can produce serious side effects such as addiction. Modafinil, in contrast, has been shown to have few side effects and there is no evidence of addiction. The next step is therefore to examine its performance-enhancing qualities in ADHD sufferers.

Have we really found a widely useful 'cognitive enhancer'? The main aim of our research is to help those with serious abnormalities in their brain functioning, for whom the race to understand the complex workings of the mind is most urgent. But can this research be misused? In a workaholic culture that demands increasingly long hours and "all-nighters", the temptation to mitigate the unrealistic demands we have of ourselves - by popping a pill - is dangerous. Over-prescribing valuable medicines, effectively turning them into 'lifestyle' or 'designer' drugs, blackens their names and injures the good reputation on which the medical profession depends. Solving social problems by changing brain chemistry is not the answer: Imagine drug-screening school pupils before they write exams! No-one wants a situation where this is the norm.

#2 John Schloendorn

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:38 AM

Solving social problems by changing brain chemistry is not the answer

Oh yes, the logic, the coherence!

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#3 doug123

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 06:07 AM

Dr. Turner's research, in fact, validated my own theories about the properties inherent in the adrafinil molecule. In summer of 2002, I first researched and learned about the properties of adrafinil. At the time, I was struggling in school to perform well in courses I deliberately chose because they were supposed to be easy.

I, on my own, based on this article, decided to self administer adrafinil to myself (fall 2002-Spring 2004) without approval by my Doctor -- fearing that he wouldn't approve (as he was a really conservative dude). It appeared to be safe for elderly folks for three month intervals, so I gave it a try and it seemed to work at enhancing performance at cognitive tasks. I requested CMPs, CBCs, etc, from my doc to and read the values for SGOT, SGPT, and hepatic alkaline phosphatase and saw then generally stayed the same throughout the two years I self administered adrafinil. The only value that increased was alkaline phosphatase -- but it always stayed within normal. Of course self administering a therapy to oneself without a doctor's supervision is very dangerous...I was careful to monitor my liver values, again...

When Dr. Turner first published her findings about the effects of modafinil in 2003, I arrogantly boasted to the doctors I know what a smart ass I am finding the solutions for myself in medicine and not needing anyone's help...LOL...then again, the answers are there for anyone with enough interest to search Pubmed.

I can't focus on school topics and excel without the aid of some pharmaceutical drugs. The classroom is tighter than any box I've been in... [tung] I am real cool and relaxed normally...

In fact, if I take my "attention stack" meds and hang out with ladies I like, I get all nervous and shake and can lose my cool collected composure. Not to mention, sexual side effects ...

Edited by nootropikamil, 02 July 2006 - 06:58 AM.


#4 zoolander

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 06:22 AM

?

Is it possible for you not to take any supplements Adam?

If it is possible it might be an idea to introduce them 1 by 1. The problem with pharmaceutical when compared with most dietary supplements is that pharmaceutical can shift the physiological/biochemical processes supramaximally and hence cause overshoot problems

#5 doug123

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 06:25 AM

Hey John! You removed part of the quote I referenced Dr. Turner...

Some of her research:

Cognitive enhancing effects of modafinil in healthy volunteers.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2003 Jan;165(3):260-9. Epub 2002 Nov 1.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Modafinil improves cognition and attentional set shifting in patients with chronic schizophrenia.
Neuropsychopharmacology. 2004 Jul;29(7):1363-73
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

A review of the use of modafinil for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.
Expert Rev Neurother. 2006 Apr;6(4):455-68.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Modafinil improves cognition and response inhibition in adult attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.
Biol Psychiatry. 2004 May 15;55(10):1031-40.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Relative lack of cognitive effects of methylphenidate in elderly male volunteers.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2003 Aug;168(4):455-64. Epub 2003 May 7.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Neurocognitive effects of methylphenidate in adult attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Mar;178(2-3):286-95. Epub 2004 Aug 27.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum




[bl:)]

#6 doug123

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 06:27 AM

?

Is it possible for you not to take any supplements Adam?

If it is possible it might be an idea to introduce them 1 by 1. The problem with pharmaceutical when compared with most dietary supplements is that pharmaceutical can shift the physiological/biochemical processes supramaximally and hence cause overshoot problems


There are infinite possibilities...but the school world I live in is so highly unusual and does not represent the real or working world. I can't focus in normal classroom. Outside of school, there's no need for many of the compounds I take. Maybe for some serious project.

But most of the supplements I take are to make up for stuff I miss as a vegetarian, or are plant based...most of these are remarkably safe..and I run them all through my current Pdoc. The only "drug" I take more than I am prescribed is modafinil and in general, and I agree it's a bad idea to take too many compouds without a careful consideration of each.

#7 zoolander

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 06:38 AM

It freakin' kills me to hear stories like yours Adam that involve psychosis. It kills me.

I'm sorry to hear that you went through all that a few years back. Hopefully you are taking precautions not to end up in the same spot.

#8 doug123

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 06:46 AM

I know what don't play in my head...through experience...nothing that increases dopamine...

#9 zoolander

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 07:03 AM

I mentioned it before on many occassions that increasing dopamine is just one side of the coin.

There was a time there where people were self diagnosing and applying the Braveman test incorrectly.

Neurotransmitters rarely work a sigle units. They work in teams. For example, with Parkinsons disease the dopamine smooths out the acetylcholine signal. If dopamine is absent or in low amounts, acetylcholine saturates the response which results in muscle tremor. Hence, it's best to refer to neurotansmitters as neurotransmitter systems. Systems because we need to consider the chemical relationship between neurotransmitters as well as their binding affinity and their respective receptor availability. This is the safer approach.

I remember when da_sense was suggesting selegiline use (I think at 5mg/day) to a 21 year old and I freaked. I came down pretty hard on him. Not because he deserved it but rather because I reacted with emotion and fear of what could happen to this young kid.

And you know what can happen Adam

#10 doug123

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 11:27 PM

I mentioned it before on many occassions that increasing dopamine is just one side of the coin.

There was a time there where people were self diagnosing and applying the Braveman test incorrectly.

Neurotransmitters rarely work a sigle units. They work in teams. For example, with Parkinsons disease the dopamine smooths out the acetylcholine signal. If dopamine is absent or in low amounts, acetylcholine saturates the response which results in muscle tremor. Hence, it's best to refer to neurotansmitters as neurotransmitter systems. Systems because we need to consider the chemical relationship between neurotransmitters as well as their binding affinity and their respective receptor availability. This is the safer approach.

I remember when da_sense was suggesting selegiline use (I think at 5mg/day) to a 21 year old and I freaked. I came down pretty hard on him. Not because he deserved it but rather because I reacted with emotion and fear of what could happen to this young kid.

And you know what can happen Adam


The braverman test I don't take as the final word, first off.

No two people I have ever met are exactly alike...especially with respect to neurochemistry. Nothing will work the same for everyone; therefore, you are right that giving a blanket prescription to everyone is definitely a BAD idea. And in many cases, it can even be deadly.

However, emphasizing the importance of patience and care when considering taking compounds to enhance performance at anything certainly is the most respectful stance -- especially considering the harder truth that some individuals actually trust people they don't know from Internet forums who claim to be "Experts" to help them treat depression, ADD, OCD, etc.

da sense has been forthcoming that he's not a doctor and that he also sells mind altering substances. I think he might have been referring to a reference dosage for Deprenyl. I guess I'd have to see the particular instance to comment further.

#11 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 11:47 PM

I remember when da_sense was suggesting selegiline use (I think at 5mg/day) to a 21 year old and I freaked. I came down pretty hard on him. Not because he deserved it but rather because I reacted with emotion and fear of what could happen to this young kid.

And you know what can happen Adam


Zoo...how many times did i told you that i actually was oposing someone (don't remember who) who advised use of selegiline to that guy ;)

If anyone ever bothers to go thru my old posts will see that i was like most of the people - more is better. But after experimenting with lots of supplements i realized less is better. I've even cut out my deprenyl (i take 5 mg weekly vs. 5mg daily for last year). I take multivit, fish oil, green tea and ocasionally few other supplements, none of them cognitive/mind related, and i feel much better.
But there are also many out there who do have problems and who try to medicate themselves. Unfortunatelly this often ends bad (ie they make things worse) simply because "more is better" thinking. (saying this in general, not thinking of anyone in particular).

#12 doug123

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 11:53 PM

I don't think Zoolander was trying to do anything but protect other readers from getting the wrong idea from my posts; I was pretty loose and made it sound like it might be safe for individuals to self administer therapies without a counsel of a health care professional. If you noticed, he raised the same issue with me, and was not insinuating that I was evil or anything...I would not be surprised if there is a future topic where zoolander says: "like I told Adam when he made it sound safe to self administer a drug without telling his doctor..." etc.

Peace.

#13 zoolander

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 03:43 AM

Its not a jab at you da_sense. As I mentioned in the post I mentioned involving you, I reacted with emotion and came down pretty hard on you.

You're a great contributor here da_sense. My intention was not to bring up the past to have a go at you matey [thumb]

#14 advancedatheist

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 04:18 AM

In a workaholic culture that demands increasingly long hours and "all-nighters", the temptation to mitigate the unrealistic demands we have of ourselves - by popping a pill - is dangerous.


I could see drugs with these effects showing up in the go-getting societies of China and India, both of which now have economies emphasizing intelligence and efficiency, at least in their most modern sectors. But in the U.S., the economy continues to dumb down the available jobs so that more and more college-educated people have to work for Wal-Mart, bar tend, takes orders in restaurants and so forth. Why ingest cognition-enhancing drugs so you can work for poverty wages after you get your degree?

#15 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 07:43 AM

Its not a jab at you da_sense. As I mentioned in the post I mentioned involving you, I reacted with emotion and came down pretty hard on you.

You're a great contributor here da_sense. My intention was not to bring up the past to have a go at you matey  [thumb]


Hehe it's all ok, we cleared things up long ago :) was just saying that i actually was advising "not to use selegiline" and not advising "to use"

it's thing of past in any case

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#16 doug123

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 06:05 AM

This is a good topic worth a bump. I am bumping a lot of topics to answer several questions I have been getting by PM, email, at my own forum, so I don't have to type the same thing over and over again. Enjoy.




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