46 replies to this topic

[doug123]

Some of my thoughts recapped:

There are two effiecient ways of attacking the masses with current resources

a)Using the internet social networks
b)Approaching college people directly

The a) strategy is being pursuited in myspace and its working like magic. In fact, I'm thinking my (and others) resources would be better spent posting there than in imminst (activism wise), the forum discussions seem really newbish there, so someone with some grasp of the science could actually make a real impression. The postings should include references here, so eventually would just make the transit and we would not get trap with two equivalently strong websites (the two website trap) or anything. We should really focus on putting some quality content in there, the layout etc. looks awesome. Also we should attack some other social networks, myspace is the biggest but there are others too. I am doing something in the finnish equivalent of (mostly teen) myspace, I encourage others doing the same. orkut, yahoo 360 are some other places to consider for starters. If there are no volunteers initially, I am going to make and official proposal to put those forward.

The b) strategy would initially consist of just plain cool life extension related posters on the campuses around the world, spread by imminst members. We could make it real professional with the help of the hplusart artists, the downside of that would be that it would probably require more focused effort and thus face possiblity of never getting done. The keywords for the campaign would be cool, sexy and funny. The myspace group goth picture (why die?) looks awesome. The posters could have some actual content (I think Reason would prefer it this way, no?), but I might prefer to keep it real simple with cool pics and the websites mentioned somewhere. BTW, at this point, I am actually more comfortable advertising the myspace group than imminst itself, to make the transition a little easier.

The material produced for strategy b could as easily be used to provide content to the social network groups.

Opales, I have not read this entire topic or everything you have posted on the matter, but can say that option b will work -- but we need a cool front line message. A message that might be taken seriously by college students. For infinite lifespans won't catch on in college students in the USA. Sorry! Also part of the audience we will attract will be graduate students, professors, etc.

[zoolander]

Let the journals and high impact media do the big campaigns and we'll run with that.

Whilst Harvey has pointed out that this will just label us as just another group i think we have potential to be more than just the another group. We have a large group of scientists and dedicated motivated members that can use the knowledge and information as a tool to move forward. We can also use the knowledge and information to map out the path to immortality by filling in the gaps and/or joining the dots.

[AdamDavis]

This is a very important point we need to consider. I think we all have had this experience. It illustrates a point. Most people don't care or don't believe. I think our families and friends are the perfect test market.

Yes I agree, to start off with. For my Mother, it's the financial issues of Life Extension. She thinks that what I am involved in is an exclusive club that you can only be a part of if you have enough money. She is not entirely wrong, but far from being completely correct. People of a lower-than-average income could still purchase green tea and at least a few vegetables et cetera. Discussions with my Mum about this strong passion I have usually ends in a heated debate or a big argument, which I really do not like, and she listens to me and reads articles I print off out of politeness I think. My Dad, he is just happy to die, pure and simple, no real issue against Life Extension at all. He has had his job for 25 years, and in those 25 years has had to tolerate lots of stress and working ridiculous hours has done damage to his body, as with my Mum's past job as an air hostess (for example, their body clocks); so I speculate past experiences is playing a part in their ignorance of it too...thinking that how they treated their bodies when they were younger is irreversible. My brother does not want to listen to me. I think whatever needs to be done to convince them will be rather challenging for me.

Edited by biopunk, 08 July 2006 - 05:09 PM.

[doug123]

What about some good ol' fashioned flyering, after certain events that would attracts transhumanists (immortalists, sympathyzers, etc)? As long as they're well done, you aren't the crazy person handing out pamphlets, and not in the business districts, it'd work well. Flyers from the right person, to the right person, can be very influental.

I'm into this idea too...

Hey Opales, your ten hour time zone difference makes it difficult for me to reach you by phone...I will try right now...

[AdamDavis]

Yes, all of us can do this; effective, if a little old-fashioned.

[mitkat]

Flyering, at the right places, could get to the hip and younger crowds in downtown areas, college and university campuses, etc. I know it would be totally hit and miss (like most flyering), but in my city core there is always flyering, and as long as the person looks approachable, isn't pushy, and is at a related venue or circumstance, I'll take their flyer and look at it. We could put some facts and figures on it, maybe imminst web addresses, methusalah mouse, CR, I don't know whats considered most "mainstream"...I think Bruce made up some flyers templates for Imminst quite a while ago (I remember seeing them somewhere!), but they could use some updating and revamping maybe

[doug123]

I'm into it! Flyering, if it has the right message, at the right place, at the right time, will work. It's not the only way...anyone else have any ideas?

Opales: my cell phone (my only phone at my apt. in SD, CA) won't reach you -- even when I try to use my credit card through AT&T....so I am going to call you from LA when I get there within a couple of days

I know we could do it with email, but I hate typing 10 pages, and I don't like IM that much...

Peace out.

[Live Forever]

What types of events do you guys have in mind that would be good for flyering?

Libertarian gatherings come to mind for me.

[doug123]

What types of events do you guys have in mind that would be good for flyering?

Libertarian gatherings come to mind for me.

"All the rage" these days seems to be about Aubrey in Technology Review: http://www.technolog...sens/index.aspx



Now, upon thinking about the idea a bit more, most normal college kids won't be that interested in a scientific debate of this level. We would need to aim for a very targeted audience. Brandon (brizzadizza) suggested geriatrics, and I might disagree that they could keep up with scientific debate at this level. I often just throw ideas out off the top of my head, so I should probably add disclaimers for my ideas to reinforce they are often just musings.

I think my shirt idea sounds stupid in retrospect...we need to attract a hard core scientist base to SENS, not a bunch of college kids. The Shirt/flyer idea can work for more general concepts; but promoting interest in a scientific debate will need to target scientists, not undergraduatge college dudes.

I am confident we could draw an audience of college kids to an organization of individuals with an interest in extended and enhanced lifespan with an idea with a shirt. To promote awareness of SENS, advertisement in scientific forums might be the best way to spread awareness.

[Live Forever]

Any gatherings of large numbers of people (the larger the numbers the better for flyering) that would be sympathetic to our cause would be ideal.

(that was the only reason I mentioned Libertarians, there seem to be a lot of them around)

[AdamDavis]

the larger the numbers the better for flyering

I agree...I certainly would not want to hand out flyers in Nottingham on my own. Flyers are generally not well received there, and are usually thrown into the bin without a second glance.

A summary of mediums we can and already have used:

. Music
. Flyers
. Art
. Interactive Media/Video Games
. Books/Literature/Children's Literature
. Poetry
. Posters
. Online Networking
. College and University Clubs
. Cinéma and Documentaries
. Radio/Podcasts
. Television
. Magazines
. Alternate Reality Games
. Gatherings and Conferences
. Festivals

As I have already mentioned, I am willing to found an Immortalist/Transhumanist club and distribute posters, flyers and anything else when I move up to College in September. I also have an idea for a short piece of literature aimed primarily at children with an Immortalist theme. I am going to write some rough first drafts.

Edited by biopunk, 12 July 2006 - 10:13 AM.

[icyT]

Aubrey, you're the coolest dirty old man ever In fact, I want to be like that, just young, because then it's like DOL camouflage.

Anyway, this thread highlights a big thing, it definately needs exposure. Now, lack of believability is probably one reason that it doesn't get too much, and stuff like M-Prize deals with that.

There are probably some other things though, potential believers in potential who just aren't really there. One could be lack of interest, another could be fear of intent, and another is... well, people haven't heard of it, at least not in the right light.

I believe that many Immortalists are not doing their all to get it out there, and I'm one of them generally, and I think I know some reasons why. If we deal with that, we can expand it.

1. Wanting to fit in. People get weirded out by the guy who is all futuristic and saying 'Im not gonna die!' and think he's crazy.

2. Politeness. Face it, a lot of us are really nice people, right? It hurts old people's feelings to say 'aging sucks, it's not graceful, it's not good, and there are not any benefits to it'. Now, being old has the benefit of more years of experience, yeah, but you can get that if you don't age, the aging of the brain has shit all to do with learning and wisdom.

3. Eugenic mimetics... or 'Eumemics' as I shall coin it (the word is mine I tell you!). Perhaps along the lines of "I only want myself, and my close friends and those people I judge worthy to have long lifespans". When you think of some of hte people who are getting more attention, brainwashing people, indulging in silly trivialities, you don't really think highly of the idea of sharing the eternity with them, and since you can't kill 'em, you think 'maybe they'll just die off on their own. Even so, we should spread the message. I think that basically, the people who are gonna make the world suck are probably the kind who risk their lives stupidly or eat crap and would rather pay for hookers than rejuvenation medicine, right? Takes care of itself, so it's no excuse, after all, better to live forever with jerks than not live at all, and it's hardly so horrible as we might think.

4. Perhaps just plain selfishness, you want to live forever but you want as few other people as possible to do so. Basically, they only live forever if you want them to. Well, that's hardly realistic, you'll never privatize such a thing, and attempting to do so would probably just ground it. Besides which, come on, you'd probably get lonely and weird being one of only a few number. If you feel a need to isolate yourself, do it some other way like sharing half your hair off.

5. It's a lot of work, and you don't think it'll succeed. It's a fear we all face to some degree right? Well, I guess we should just look to the people who are fighting Cancer or all those other diseases and ask them how and why they do it. I'm not so sure, but if they can do it we can right? Our dream's way bigger, and it'd solve a lot of their dreams too.

[AdamDavis]

The Outreach discussions have come to a halt for some reason, we were doing quite well with the sudden explosion of ideas and creativity, why hs it stopped? This is very important.

[Brainbox]

This topic did attract my attention a bit late ....

However, there are a lot of positive idea’s, I would like to add something less positive. At least, for the short term.

It’s my strong opinion that life extension and related subjects are on the top of a pyramid, with issues like health consciousness and environmental impact of our economy on a lower level. (I’m not any sort of hard-core environmentalist, but I think we should attach a bit more economical value to activities that contribute to preserving the nature we live in.)

But lets get to the main point I would like to make.

The majority of people don’t even know the basics of healthy nutrition. Our cola and burger consuming society does not give a damn about health in general. Well, they don’t like to be ill (I hope) and will pop some aspirin when some sort of headache appears. And if cancer strikes … shit happens. To bad.

Any basic knowledge about health in general, keeping a healthy diet, going for disease preventing lifestyles is something that needs good educational support. It’s to bad that kids at school do not learn the basics of healthy food, beginning with the use of proteins and carbs.

Another issue is that there’s just not enough evidence around that healthy lifestyles do make a difference. It cannot compete with the economical and fast lifestyle value of magnetron dinners.

In an ignorant world like this, handing out flyers about life extension will not work. It’s just to high up the pyramid, where ignorance about the basic stuff needs to be addressed first.

Handing out flyers (just to name one example) will make us at best look like a couple of geeks to the majority of people.

To make a real difference, we need more budget and a professional communication expert within the ranks of imminst. Another thread about this matter already did bleed to death, so, to be honest, I’m not very optimistic regarding our outreach discussions.

And to the obvious question attached to this, why I’m not actively pursuing any activities myself in this, I do not have the time for it. This will apply to many of the imminst members I fear.

[doug123]

The Outreach discussions have come to a halt for some reason, we were doing quite well with the sudden explosion of ideas and creativity, why hs it stopped? This is very important.

The Outreach discussion has been re-routed somewhere, but I am not exactly sure where. I asked several weeks ago when the neo webpage is going to go up, and I was told:

A number of changes have been implemented as we've also carried some of these discussions to the Full Member forum.

Since then, I have not seen too much happen, Full Member forum or not (unless I am missing something). While I understand the importance of making some decisions by Full Member vote, I don't think it's a good idea to exclude any members from discussions. You do realize $50 a year or $5 a month is a steep price to pay for a membership when there are not too many advantages to joining.

I haven't looked through the whole "Full Member" section, and since it hasn't been an active topic since I've been converted to a full member, I have not seen any further discussion on these matters. I try to spend a few minutes glancing around the site but yes, I agree that most of the ideas and creativity has passed.

As Dukenukem mentioned:

BTW, while my king comment was not meant to be serious, it's clear to me this place does need a leader who's willing to lead. Practically any venture run by committee will result in a watered-down product. I just do not see anyone here who can pull the trigger and get things down -- this place seems paralyzed with conflicting ideas, and no one is capable of cherry picking ideas and saying, "These are the ones we're going with."

Again, if Immisnt were a business, it would fail. There's no leader here. Or am I missing something (or someone)?

Bruce seems to be capable of, as Duke has stated: "pulling the trigger to get things done," but the rest of it seems to be mostly talk.

That's right Duke, ImmInst is not a business. I think the current ImmInst leaders are attempting to make ImmInst an educational organization of sorts.

The leadership structure is far too bloated for me (or any other member here IMHO) to try to push through legislation without running into serious conflict, month long delays; not to mention, whatever is proposed might be re formed a million times so the finished idea is so radically different than what was originally proposed that I think the watered down product might be totally ineffective. Running into conflict itself isn't the problem; however, as a volunteer, I have much less patience with overly bureaucratic procedures -- because the opportunity cost of my time and hassle can get expensive real quick. I hope to be working with Opales to get some stuff done independent of ImmInst. This may take some time, as the resources I can easily devote to the cause of promoting interest in the cause are scarce...however, I am confident working closely with another proactive member(s) of this community with 1/30 the resources would be more effective than trying to rally support and pass motions through a body of individuals who have little or no prerequisite or record of taking action.

[doug123]

To make a real difference, we need more budget and a professional communication expert within the ranks of imminst. Another thread about this matter already did bleed to death, so, to be honest, I’m not very optimistic regarding our outreach discussions.

And to the obvious question attached to this, why I’m not actively pursuing any activities myself in this, I do not have the time for it. This will apply to many of the imminst members I fear.

Thoughts:

As most of the traffic here comes through the Health Forums, that's where the major outreach focus should be. I have proposed to Jay to donate a portion of profits from my webstore towards the ImmInst cause or as a grant in ImmInst's name to support anti aging or nootropic research. A supplement discount program for ImmInst full members would be the best way to attract more full members. Obviously these are complex issues that will require teamwork and in this case the "watered down product" might turn out to be better than any individuals' ideas. The current idea that ImmInst leadership seems to be debating is an official advertising policy for ImmInst. At this point, charging a fee for ALL advertisers is the best idea I've heard of in quite a while; in the meanwhile we can hopefully work together to solve some of these more complex issues.

[doug123]

Please forgive my tone in the last couple o posts. I do realize that everyone here is a volunteer, and most of us have some sort of life away from the computer. For the last few weeks I've been out of school and had more time on my hands so I'm just trying to help get us moving...I purchased an International phone card and phoned Opales at least 4 or 5 times so far and only reached his answering machine..we should talk soon and have an update for everyone once we discuss different strategies. The least I think we will do is make up a really cool flyer to distribute around whatever real life forums we visit. Anyways.

We saw a glimpse of what we can do if we work together with the development of the new front page...I'm wondering why the "neo" version isn't up yet.