114 replies to this topic

[chrisp2]

http://www.insinc.co...tvnetplayer.htm

Here is a presentation by Reinhold Vieth which details his reasons
for higher Vitamin D level requirements and does so in lay terms.

Well, I finally just watched the entire presentation and WOW that was good. Yeah, I'm sold too. I'll start taking 2,000 per day as soon as I get some.

Is anyone else having difficulty watching that video? It does a horrible job at buffering and pauses a LOT over here.

I want to try and screen capture it (video) and save it to a DVD for my parents to watch, but I can't even do that effectively, too darn choppy.

[Aegist]

Obviously the sllideshow is interfering with your streaming. I had no problem with it, it paused once, maybe twice for me throughout the whole presentation.

have you tried pausing it at the beginning for 15 minutes or something to see if it will buffer, and then play it?

[shadowrun]

chrisp2

I watched the slide at 1 AM ET and had minimal issues

It's definately worth watching

I'm not sure if this is how it works - but perhaps when you tried the site it was at a high traffic time period -

[chrisp2]

Oh I watched the whole thing. Amazing stuff.

The implementation of the streaming though is really quite broken - in that it doesn't seem to buffer. I could pause for 5 mins, then un-pause, and within 30 seconds it will have to buffer. It doesn't buffer the whole thing, like youtube or most good streaming systems.

I did a traceroute - 15 hops.

Although pingplotter is now alternating between 15 and 17 hops, so maybe BGP is rerouting packets. One of the routes has a router that is dropping packets (the router that is part of their upstream provider)

I'm just disappointed because the stuff is so valuable I want to record it on a dvd to send to my parents (who do not have net access). (And quite frankly I'd probably share it with friends too... really great work by the presenter)

[Aegist]

Maybe you could email the website host. It seems that this is their thing that they do, surely they would want to improve their service. Perhaps they could be persuaded that improving their streaming would be a smart move... or maybe they can fix the router that is dropping packets?

[shifter]

Very informative. I have bought Vitamin D supplements that contain 2400IU each and also take 500mg fish oil which probably has some.

I figure i'll start with a loading dose of 7200IU a day (+ the fish oil) for a few weeks and then drop off to 4800IU. I'll tell a doctor I want a blood test (to test every vitamin, mineral, protein, hormone etc) and see how much vitamin D is floating around. He'll probably get hysterical and insist on a blood test once I tell him how much vitamin D I have been taking

I like the idea that you can take a months supply of vitamin D in one go and not bother for a whole month But i'll stick to smaller daily doses.

[Aegist]

While it is clear in the film that our blood concentrations of Vitamin D are low, he doesn't cover the fact that taking Vitamin D in tablet form must pass through the digestive phase.

Have any long term studies been done on the affect of these large doses of vitamin D ingestion on the liver?

[health_nutty]

Two weeks on 10,000 IU per day as I ramp up. I am pretty sure now that I was very deficient. This is what I was missing.

The most notable impact has been on a reduction of joint inflammation.

Very interesting. How much do you plan on taking after two weeks?

Edited by health_nutty, 28 January 2007 - 08:25 PM.

[sentrysnipe]

I'm at 2000IU taking D2. Can anyone confirm that D2 is much safer to the kidneys than D3? That's the only reason why I switched to D2

[pycnogenol]

I have bought Vitamin D supplements that contain 2400IU each.

Me too. I take Healthy Origins, Vitamin D3, 2400 IU, 120 Softgels.

[Aegist]

I think the biggest risk which no one has apprasied still, is the long term affect on the kidneys. Maybe it is inconsequential, but until someone does the study or at least collects what data they can on the topic, it is a risk factor.

Vitamin D is made in the skin, not in the diet. Our kidneys have never had to deal with long term high dosage ingestion of vitamin D. That difference may have consequences.

[Aegist]

Yes, funnily enough I was...but of course the kidneys just purify the blood. Maybe I am thinking of the liver....
(obviously I'm not a physiology major!)
Tell me if I am outright wrong, but wouldn't D creation from the skin go straight into the blood stream, while ingestion would pass through several processes before entering the bloody stream?

[Aegist]

OK, thanks for that addison! (thats what makes forums like this great, its easy to find people who know more than you about certain topics)

[shadowrun]

I finally started supplementing with D - I took a mega dose of 10,000 IU
I had a pretty horrible day but felt pretty good considering

the 2nd day another 10,000 IU - it was pretty blah -
Everyone in the house kept asking me why I was in such a good mood and I had no answer...

Only today when I reached for the Vitamin D bottle again did I think that there might be a correlation between the D and my mood -

I'm happy to see some people posting a similar experience - I had no idea it would affect me in that way

Sunshine pills - I need to get my depressed freinds on D and Fish Oil

[ryan1113]

Trends Mol Med. 2006 Jul;12(7):298-305. Epub 2006 May 30.

Hypervitaminosis D and premature aging: lessons learned from Fgf23 and Klotho mutant mice.

Razzaque MS, Lanske B.

Department of Developmental Biology, Harvard School of Dental Medicine, Research and Educational Building, 190 Longwood Avenue, Boston, MA 02115, USA. mrazzaque@hms.harvard.edu

The essential role of low levels of vitamin D during aging is well documented. However, possible effects of high levels of vitamin D on the aging process are not yet clear. Recent in vivo genetic-manipulation studies have shown increased serum level of vitamin D and altered mineral-ion homeostasis in mice that lack either fibroblast growth factor 23 (Fgf23) or klotho (Kl) genes. These mice develop identical phenotypes consistent with premature aging. Elimination or reduction of vitamin-D activity from Fgf23 and Kl mutant mice, either by dietary restriction or genetic manipulation could rescue premature aging-like features and ectopic calcifications, resulting in prolonged survival of both mutants. Such in vivo experimental studies indicated that excessive vitamin-D activity and altered mineral-ion homeostasis could accelerate the aging process.

Publication Types:
Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't

PMID: 16731043 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[health_nutty]

Thanks for posting the study Ryan. Anyone know what the dosages were in the mice?

[xanadu]

Are these effects seen for all forms of D or mostly for D3? What about taking only D3 and none of the other forms, is that good?

[Pablo M]

I buy Dr. Weil's 1000 IU microtabs for $4 per 100 tabs from vitacost. Then, I take the microtabs, and slide them into gelcaps in order to make 5000 IU pills. 8 microtabs could fit in there, but I do 'em 5 each so I can take 10k IU per day. It's very convenient and easy to take them then.

Addison, you should consider buying Healthy Origins vitamin D3. It is $11.25 for 360 softgels from iHerb. 4 softgels would give you 9600 IU, plus it's in softgel form so it will be better absorbed than the Weil product. Healthy Origins is my newest favorite supplement company because of this outstandingly great product. I'm taking at least one of the 2400 IU D softgels per day, sometimes two or three. During summer I may cut back to 1000 IU but I haven't decided yet.

There's lots of great reading on vitamin D at www.vitamindcouncil.com.

[Aegist]

I went to my local chemist and they were charging something like almost $20 for 60 1000IU tablets, while my local vitamin store was only cahrging $10 for 60 1000IU tablets. But in both cases they had no variety at all. They had one brand, and one option for Vitamin D.

I also noticed that it was odd for me to have asked for it, because it seems the publicity around Vitamin D is that only old women take it for their osteoporosis or something.. so a healthy 25 year old is a weird person to be purchasing D.

I might see if the vitamin shop manager/owner is interested in reading this thread.

Shane

[ryan1113]

I finally started supplementing with D - I took a mega dose of 10,000 IU
I had a pretty horrible day but felt pretty good considering

the 2nd day another 10,000 IU - it was pretty blah -
Everyone in the house kept asking me why I was in such a good mood and I had no answer...

You know what, it doesn't really work that way with Vitamin D. It stays in your system for so long that if you wanted to, you could get all of your Vitamin D on one day for the entire month. In fact, there've been studies showing that you can do this. Taking 10,000 IU one day isn't going to have any immediate effects one way or the other unless you're in a state of terrible deficiency such that every little bit counts.

The idea is to have your Vitamin D levels tested and make some adjustments as necessary.

It also is not true that 'everyone' who doesn't much get sunlight year round or in the winter needs several thousand IU's everyday to compensate for days without sun hitting the skin. I definitely fall into that category, only get 2000 IU's daily for years, and yet my Vitamin D levels just tested at 128 nM/L. And I always apply a broad-spectrum sunscreen product (Rejuvenex), so what tiny bit of sunlight I do get in the winter is rather meaningless (and actually it's cloudy practically every day here in the winter, too). And in the summer months here in Michigan, I avoid direct skin exposure more than most, and always have broad-spectrum sunscreen on. The 2000 IU's I've been getting seems to be more than adequate despite my minimal exposure to the sun.

[bgwowk]

10,000 IU per day over a period of years could get you into trouble. Anybody supplementing at that level needs blood levels regularly checked. The studies I've seen concerning optimum vitamin D levels for cancer prevention involve blood levels that should be attainable with a dose not exceeding 4,000 IU per day. 3,000 IU per day in winter puts me in the high end. Your mileage may vary. There is no substitute for blood tests when dosing in the thousands of IUs.

Just remember it only takes a few careless people getting in trouble with supplements to create medical anecdotes that spoil supplement access for the rest of us.

[Aegist]

I have been told that 'hair' tests are the best way of measuring the effects of vitamins on you over time... Anyone care to comment on that? And maybe willing to consider one of those as well as blood tests when they follow up on their progress with vitamin D after prolonged application...

[ryan1113]

I have been told that 'hair' tests are the best way of measuring the effects of vitamins on you over time... Anyone care to comment on that? And maybe willing to consider one of those as well as blood tests when they follow up on their progress with vitamin D after prolonged application...

In the case of Vitamin D, a blood test is all you need because the blood levels are reflective of a result of long term sun exposure + supplementation over recent months. The blood test for this vitamin is not something that's going to fluctuate significantly over a short period of time. I think LEF is charging $47 for this test this month (for everyone?), and this is the usual price for members.

If blood levels aren't where they should be, then it'll require a follow-up test several months later after you adjust your daily sun exposure and/or supplementation to see if you went too far or not far enough. And then for those in states with more seasonal variation, it's complicated by seasonal sun exposure differences.

[maxwatt]

I'm at 2000IU taking D2. Can anyone confirm that D2 is much safer to the kidneys than D3? That's the only reason why I switched to D2

Neither has been shown to cause kidney problems, but D2 would be more likely to, or so I inferred from this:

http://www.vitamindc...rmacology.shtml

(D2 is Ergocalciferol )

Ergocalciferol is metabolized to various substances in the body, some of which are not normally present in humans, although these metabolites have never been shown to be dangerous. There is also some evidence that ergocalciferol is more toxic in overdose, which is curious as it is only about half as potent as the naturally occurring vitamin D, cholecalciferol.

They also say D2 is only half as effective as D3. The only reason I can see to take D2 instead is that it's kosher.

[DukeNukem]

I take 2000 to 4000 IU daily, and have been doing so for about two years. This is what I have been using the whole time:

http://www.mercola.c...ms/vitamind.htm

I put drops in my drinks all day long. Appears to be tasteless.

[shadowrun]

You know what, it doesn't really work that way with Vitamin D. It stays in your system for so long that if you wanted to, you could get all of your Vitamin D on one day for the entire month. In fact, there've been studies showing that you can do this. Taking 10,000 IU one day isn't going to have any immediate effects one way or the other unless you're in a state of terrible deficiency such that every little bit counts.

The idea is to have your Vitamin D levels tested and make some adjustments as necessary.

It also is not true that 'everyone' who doesn't much get sunlight year round or in the winter needs several thousand IU's everyday to compensate for days without sun hitting the skin. I definitely fall into that category, only get 2000 IU's daily for years, and yet my Vitamin D levels just tested at 128 nM/L. And I always apply a broad-spectrum sunscreen product (Rejuvenex), so what tiny bit of sunlight I do get in the winter is rather meaningless (and actually it's cloudy practically every day here in the winter, too). And in the summer months here in Michigan, I avoid direct skin exposure more than most, and always have broad-spectrum sunscreen on. The 2000 IU's I've been getting seems to be more than adequate despite my minimal exposure to the sun.

I definately think my D levels were low
- In a perfect world we should all get tested
But taking a 1000 mg pill every day will stand to benefit most people -

[bgwowk]

That's a PRweb press release. PRweb lets anyone who pays post their own "press release". The story is attributed to Bill Sardi, and at the end features an endorsement of vitamin D pills sold by lifespannutrition.com.

Here's another press release promoting lifespannutrion.com products

http://72.14.209.104...lient=firefox-a

that lists Lucy Sardi as a contact.

The vitamin D piece contains a common and dangerous myth:

To demonstrate just how ridiculous the warnings of vitamin D overdose have been, says Sardi, a person standing in the summer sun for an hour at noontime in a Southern latitude (Arizona, Florida) in swim trunks would naturally produce about 10,000 IU of vitamin D through skin exposure. Sun poisoning from vitamin D overdose has never been reported.

The reason there has never been a vitamin D overdose from sunlight is that the body regulates vitamin D production from sunlight.

That said, if published journal studies are correct, careful vitamin D supplementation could indeed save millions of lives. But people here know of lots other examples of that too. Our medical science and public health infrastructure handles information about non-patentable beneficial substances very poorly.

Edited by bgwowk, 22 February 2007 - 06:07 AM.

[bgwowk]

See

http://jn.nutrition....ll/135/11/2739S

which contains

However, there has never been a reported case of vitamin D intoxication due to excessive exposure to sunlight for white lifeguards and sun worshippers or for tanners who frequent a tanning salon. The reason for this is that when precholecalciferol and cholecalciferol are exposed to sunlight, they undergo transformation of their double bonds to form a wide variety of photoisomers that have little biologic activity on calcium metabolism.

That people can get tons and tons of sunlight without vitamin D toxicity is no assurance of the safety of chronic high dose cholecalciferol supplementation.

IMHO, rather than just blinding taking 10,000 IU a day for years, it would be safer to empirically determine what dose puts your serum levels in the high end of the safe range.

[TheodoreTried]

http://www.insinc.co...tvnetplayer.htm

That old video....

[TheodoreTried]

More support for higher intake and higher UL. A couple of excerpts and
a link:


"The amount of vitamin D in supplements isn't nearly enough," Dr. Robert Heaney – a professor at Creighton University School of Medicine who has conducted nearly two decades worth of research on vitamin D – told NutraIngredients-USA. "Our best estimate is that the body uses 4000 iu per day and the dietary reference intake for women up to the age of 50 is 200 iu per day."

"You have to go well above 10,000 iu per day to get into unsafe levels," said Heaney.

http://www.nutraingr...rsity-vitamin-d