11 replies to this topic

[zulucross]

The Meaning of Life

To the questioning person – the ancient Greeks, philosophers, wise men, poets, kings, intellects and storytellers have all tried to present the true meaning of life in a concise and understanding manner but most have failed to convince the reader of their message. Novelist Ernest Hemingway, who we mistakenly thought was living the high life said, "I live in a vacuum that is as lonely as a radio tube when the batteries are dead and there is no current to plug into."

Thousands of people worldwide commit suicide every year as a result of depression and loneliness. Clinical depression is a medical condition but for many people depression and anxiety is brought on by lack of direction in life. Many people just have no idea where they are going and most don’t even know why they exist. The Western world is competing in one big rat race that is racing towards a finish line that nobody can see or reach. The world is made of winners and losers. The rich live in comfort and the poor live in desperation. The rich, the good-looking and healthy are invited to all the cocktail parties but the poor, the ill and the less-fortunate in appearance sit at home alone.

We live in a cruel world but it should never have been like this.

No Meaning of Life essay can have any substance to it without focusing wholly on God - as He IS Life. God and Humanity all starts in the Book of Genesis – one of the greatest pieces of literature of all time.

Adam and Eve lived in perfect harmony with themselves, each other and in fellowship with God. Sin, sickness, illness, depression, misery, boredom, waste, greed, hatred, filth and unhappiness were unknown to them. God in His infinite wisdom realised that Adam and Eve needed the gift of choice – but such a gift was to be given at a great cost. The choice to follow himself or herself or God. Unfortunately they chose to follow themselves. Thus entered sin and death into the world. Adam and Eve produced and the children ventured out into the world – spiritually dead since the Fall. God, now having given man the gift of choice decided that He would invite mankind back into fellowship with Him. By deciding to follow themselves and not God, Adam and Eve brought the penalty of spiritual death upon themselves. This curse now had to be broken but only God could break that as He had placed the death penalty on mankind in the first place. God realised that all humanity should WANT to follow Him - not HAVE to follow Him. In order for humanity to seek God from the heart, God realised that there was no sense in casting a blanket ‘magic spell’ on mankind by making mankind follow Him as an order as that would get us all back to square one – where we saw Adam and Eve before they were offered the gift of choice. God knew that if we wanted a true relationship with Him we would have to earn the privilege by seeking Him in earnest. God then had to decide where in all the length of humanity the perfect time or opportunity to present the rescue package would be most appropriate. God had to produce a rescue package that could be both looked forward to and be gratefully looked back on, so He decided to present the rescue package in 4 BC. The Old Testament faithful were apparently saved "on credit" as it were, until they could be perfected through Christ. (See last couple verses of Hebrews 11.) Jesus is the Lamb for all peoples (see Rev 5 and 7). Anyone who comes into God's "house" comes in through Jesus, no matter when they lived. We have to remember that Jesus is not only the Lamb, He is the Door (John 10) and He is the Word (John 1). The Word is the Door. The Old Testament came in (into God's elect) through the Word of God, which they believed in and did and persevered by. (Hebrews 11 is all about those who persevered in knowing the Word of God and doing it).
Now think of Passover, the picture of Jesus...Jesus is the Door, but He's also the Lamb, and the Lamb's blood is on the Door. Interestingly, if you read the Passover story, first the people came into the house, then the lamb was killed, then the blood put on the door. Think of Moses and Abraham as having come into the house, but the Lamb wasn't slain for a long time. (Time, however, is not an issue with God.) Jesus was the Lamb for their sins and ours. All those that lived up until this point were kept in check by prophets and messengers so that nobody could claim they didn’t know they were sinning - right from Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah and through. The first promise concerning Jesus can be found as early as in Genesis: "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed (Christ); He (Christ) shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His (Christ) heel" (Genesis 3:15). God saw that He wanted to save man from the clutch of satan so He had a plan arranged right from the day that Adam and Eve sinned. God knew that He would have to send His Son the Messiah to save man from spiritual death. So God plotted and planned to herd His chosen people (the Jews from which His Lamb would be produced) from a place near modern-day Iraq to Jerusalem where the conditions would be just right to have Jesus captured and crucified. Jesus Christ was to be another Adam. Adam was sinless but fell to sin and remained spiritually dead because he was not a Holy God. Jesus was born sinless of the Virgin Mary as it was God's plan to one day have Jesus die to the sins He took from us and to rise again because He (Jesus) is part Holy God. A Holy God cannot die an eternal spiritual death so in that sense the Holy Jesus man-God took our sins and died but rose again - thus breaking the curse of eternal death.

We live in a fallen world but there is a chance for you to find happiness in God. But there is only one way to find God and that is through His sacrificial Lamb – Jesus Christ. Jesus is our mediator. We approach God directly, but only because of the presence of Jesus Christ who is our representative and advocate. Our sin declares us guilty and unworthy to approach God. But Jesus is present to declare us redeemed and our penalty paid.

The Meaning of Life is simple: LOVE. Follow Jesus Christ and you will be blessed with love and joy. Love and Joy IS God - which IS life. Jesus died and rose so that the poor, the ill and the less-fortunate in appearance can be happy – happy just like Adam and Eve before the Fall.

There is NO other answer to the Meaning of Life – follow this message and you will live forever in joy.

[Sophianic]

The Meaning of Life
There is NO other answer to the Meaning of Life – follow this message and you will live forever in joy.

Will this choice keep me wedded to a past that reassures or take me toward a future that inspires?

--
What are the key elements in this myth that could be used to encourage a person to move from a religious mentality to a rational mindset?

A brief sketch ...

I feel oppressed.
(I feel challenged).

I need someone to help me.
(I need someone to guide me).

Jesus can help me.
(X can serve as my guide).

Jesus is God incarnate.
(X is a human authority on Y).

God offers life after death.
(Y provides reasons to create an extraordinary life in this world).

I can live forever in joy ~ even if I die.
(I can live forever in joy ~ in the absence of death).

--
Suggestions for modification or improvement are welcome ...

[Cyto]

Go to a library and rent CNN's Special: The People Bomb.

As you watch it you will find that if locations like India, Philippines, Nepal, Centro, Ethiopia etc. had the absence of religion there would be: an OK economy, little male domination, no or minute cases of infanticide, use of contraceptives, women wouldn't die of back alley abortions and India is now sterilizing women which also leads to thousands of deaths. Oh and overpopulation along with malnutrition.


So for more important issues we need to stop the dominance of religion - which infest with stagnating ideologies such as yours.

AKA: Introduce how nature works, in real time.

Edited by XxDoubleHelixX, 06 May 2003 - 04:28 AM.

[ocsrazor]

Hi Gang,

zulucross has hit upon one of the keys for replacing the current religious structures, i.e. giving deep purpose to human life. If we are serious about replacing the dominant parasitic meme structures (Christianity, Islam, etc.) with a new "mythology" we must strive to find what that purpose is and express it to the general public.

For myself, I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between Jung, complexity theory, systems theory, and emergence (etc.) My suspicion is that the emergence of intelligent life is a fully expected expression of the deep physical properties of the universe, and that our particular purpose is to continue the progression toward higher levels of ordered complexity -> To connect the universe to itself, if you will.

The greatest difficulty is to clearly elucidate these ideas and put them in a form which is understandable and attractive to the rest of the world. This is sort of a hobby of mine, but a large percentage of my thoughts are taken up by more pressing technical matters. This is a critical task though for the mental health of humanity as a whole, and we desperately need good transhuman philosophers and evangelists. I would highly encourage the development of individuals in this direction if they are so inclined.

Absolute (public) rejection of the dominant meme sets is probably not going to get very far in changing a large percentage of the world, and so we must seriously think about the mental challenges people like zulucross are facing, and tailor our use of language and appearances to the world as a whole, so that as much of humanity as possible can continue on its forward journey (good start Sophianic!). I believe we can use the "good" philosophical writings in the major religious texts to create a slow bridge to more productive thought structures. The original mystics of all the world's major religions all had great instincts for pushing humanity forward in their particular times and places (although their messages are later twisted and used by bureaucrats and tyrants for power). We should try and follow their example and help people to make the next leap.

Best,
ocsrazor

[Bruce Klein]

You guys have hit upon the intangibles, the reasons why we get excited about life.. or what many call a 'meaning'. A crisp definition has always been elusive. Why so?

Susan and I were discussing this tonight. She has a friend who has just called off a wedding. Her friend was devastated emotionally as she wanted to marry this man.. a man she thought would fulfill her life.

Just another small tragedy in the larger upheaval of modern society.. a society being pummeled by an unsettling number of choices and breathtaking progress.

Homo sapiens, evolved in the savannahs of Africa to thrive in a closely knit family clan. Support was an arm length away. Now, with our glass and steel suburban sprawl world, mechanical gadgets, television, radio, and internet meme spreading, many feel totally out of place.. and they haven’t a clue as to why! They don’t understand that their minds were wholly unevolved for such a modern world.

But, a few intrepid humans have taken to this new world like ducks to water. We’ll call them transhumanists. By some different connecting in their brain wiring, they see the world as offering up tremendous opportunity. They embrace the prospect of living with augmented silicon bodies and minds. They channel much energy into keeping their bodies fit and protected from death, because to them death equals oblivion, not release.

So, I believe, there will be many who’ll choose not to become transhuman or immortal. Their minds will never be receptive to the new prospect of a techno world. But, as Ocsrazor suggested, hopefully we’ll see a charismatic transhumanist who’ll arise and eloquently break down barriers between culture and thinking, dispel some unfounded fears and shine an attractive light toward a more rational/immortal future free from death and despair.

[AdamLink]

I applaud everyone here for seeking truth. And for abandoning the- "My Dad is better than your Dad!"-Attitude.

It is that very thing that can keep us from getting closer to anyone of our goals.

[Utnapishtim]

Aristotle had an nearly 400 year head start on Jesus Christ and an almost 1000 year headstart on Mohammed.

Why have his memes not propagated as successfully among laypeople?

Coming to grips with Aristotle requires hard thought. He provides little comfort.

Judaism and Islam are Instruction manual faiths. They are works-based... do X Y Z and get your reward at the end.

Christianity is an insurance based religion. If you take out Christ-insurance he picks up the tab for your sins and you can enter heaven.

These belief systems are appreciated by millions of people around the world because they provide comfort without requiring intellectual challenge.

Of course the religious texts also provide enough obscurata for the more intellectually inclined adherents to argue endlessly over, but in essence they are Lowest -common-denominator faiths.

I have arrived at my own views through hard thought. I can not envision reducing them to a form comprehensible without hard thought.

Ocsrazor can your worldview compete with the Christianity for comprehensibility and comfort to the average person?


The philosophical argument is a blind alley. In the end the argument for immortality will be won by the appeal of youthful muscles skin and hair.

[Discarnate]

Some possible reasons:

- Aristotle doesn't have the fanaticism inherent in his teachings that Jesus or Mohammed (or Gauthama, for that matter) have in theirs.

- People don't realize the old chestnut with the fox going for the grapes out of reach and declairing them 'probably sour' because they can't be reached is Aristotle. (Why's a carnivore going after grapes, anyways?)

- People meet others who've come to a simplified understanding of Jesus' or Mohammed's teachings and accept those (possibly over-)simplified teachings as everything involved.

- Harder for a charismatic person to abuse the more logical underpinnings of Aristotle's work as compared to many others.

- Perhaps, as some have speculated, the time around Christ and Mohammed and others just happened to have the perfect conditions for the generation of new memetic structures.

These are all thoughts 'off the cuff' - some may be partially right, odds are they're all at least partially wrong. *wry grin*

[AdamLink]

A Unitarian once siad: "Its not the meaning of life that matters. Its the meaning in life that matters."

[Mind]

The world is made of winners and losers. The rich live in comfort and the poor live in desperation. The rich, the good-looking and healthy are invited to all the cocktail parties but the poor, the ill and the less-fortunate in appearance sit at home alone.

I happen to know a few rich people who are depressed and live in desperation. Rich people commit suicide too.

Only an individual can define meaning in his/her life. It does not matter whether I am rich or poor, happy or depressed, or somewhere in between, I can have meaning in my life throughout the whole spectrum. You seem to suggest here that if everyone was rich and good looking - they would all be happy and have great meaning in their life.

[Cris]

Life can have no meaning unless it was intentionally designed; i.e. only a creator style god could provide a meaning. But there is no apparent or obvious reason to life. The thread starter proposes an appeal to emotionalism in the form of love as the meaning of life. This is an overly puerile and simplistic perspective but which does appeal to a mindless mass of the population. But what we observe are individuals that have evolved to be dependent on each other and hence strongly encouraged to propagate the species. Love plays a powerful role in that evolutionary mechanism and nothing more.

The meaning of life is a nonsense question, what makes more sense is the question each individual can ask themselves – what purpose can I create for myself?

I do not a see a future transhumanist society of immortals being controlled by urges to procreate. Those are vestiges of our evolutionary past ideally suited to short lived life forms, and love is a primitive mechanism that has done its duty.

Love requires a dependence on others and I don’t see myself with an open ended lifespan having any need for a particular dependence on others. Love should become nothing more than an occasional pleasure for those that still see emotions as having value.

The question should be – what purposes can we assign ourselves as individuals or as groups, or as a species.

[MichaelAnissimov]

For a while I've found this (Interim) Meaning of Life to be the most philosophically satisfying:

http://www.sysopmind...ningoflife.html

I've always felt that a complete Meaning of Life should encompass the Meaning that other sentients feel in their own lives, too. A decent Meaning of Life should also be memetically convergent; it should be approachable from a variety of routes, probabilistic rather than absolute, uphold values common to all humanity, subject to revision and improvement, and must include a component prompting the bearer to critically seek better alternatives.