141 replies to this topic

[Gal220]

I'll bite, some immunocompromised cancer & HIV patients may have persistent residual infection, but I hardly think this is the norm.  

 

To opine no one really gets rid of the virus until they get a vaccine afterwards that somehow magically deep cleans the body seems grasping at straws.  

 

Malone bought into this idea to try and get rid of his long covid. 

IVM wound up ultimately resolving it for him, but there are a ton of sob stories of on social media of long covid where they have seemingly tried everything

 

 

There is a method of action for the reactivation of latent viruses(shingles,herpes observed in the clinical trials) and cancers

https://twitter.com/...765299088936961

 

 

They had to modify the immune system to get the shot to work by suppressing toll-like receptors

https://swprs.org/co...nes-and-cancer/

[Gal220]

Am I dyed in the wool anti-vax?  

 

You and 90% of the US who refuse to get the latest booster /shame..

 

 

From Dr. Malhotra

"a number of high profile celebrities, journalists & broadcasters who come to me for medical advice have informed me they will not be having anymore covid vaccines (they know about the unprecedented harms) but are afraid to speak out publicly."

https://twitter.com/...702833167380480

 

 

Cancel culture at its finest, even when death is on the line

[joesixpack]

You and 90% of the US who refuse to get the latest booster /shame..

 

 

From Dr. Malhotra

"a number of high profile celebrities, journalists & broadcasters who come to me for medical advice have informed me they will not be having anymore covid vaccines (they know about the unprecedented harms) but are afraid to speak out publicly."

https://twitter.com/...702833167380480

 

 

Cancel culture at its finest, even when death is on the line

 

I have no trouble with vaccines that work.

 

I have trouble with vaccines that do not prevent infection, and do not prevent spread. Authorities have now admitted this is the case. But, they claim, without any evidence, that they prevent death and long Covid. Bullshit.

 

When a major US official, like one did yesterday, says if your booster is 2 months old, you need another one, I have some questions.

 

A booster every two months? At $130.00 a pop?

 

Does anyone really need an explanation for what is going on here?

 

No therapeutics, except for remdisiovir (spelling) at 15K for administration, and it does nothing? Thousands for Paxlovid for a drug with huge adverse events, and in 50% of the cases result in a new Covid infection?

 

WTF?

 

Spit in my face, don't tell me it's rain.

 

And edit that Antivaxer title for this thread, it is a lie.

 

Sorry for the rant, I know that you are not the person that can edit the title of the thread.

Edited by joesixpack, 03 December 2022 - 08:11 AM.

[Hip]

Why are you calling us "AntiVaxers"?

 
Because every single post about the vaccines in the COVID threads are negative posts. There's no balanced reasoning in these posts, like "there are some very rare side effects, but by and large the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh the negatives".

 

We none of this balanced reasoning, just a constant tirade against the vaccines (not to mention against masks, lockdowns, and anything else that official government policy recommends). So that fits the definition of an antivaxer I mentioned earlier: someone who goes online and slams the vaccines.


 

I have trouble with vaccines that do not prevent infection, and do not prevent spread. Authorities have now admitted this is the case. But, they claim, without any evidence, that they prevent death and long Covid. Bullshit.

I think what you are trying to say is that you wish the COVID vaccines would prevent infection 100% of the time, and prevent spread 100% of the time. 
 
Rather than the fact that these vaccines only reduce transmission, and reduce the chances of infection.
 
Well we would all like 100% effective vaccines. 
 
We would also all like cars that are 100% effective in preventing injury in a serious car crash.
 
There are lots of things we would like, but they are not always possible. That's known as the reality of the situation. 


 

But, they claim, without any evidence, that they prevent death and long Covid. Bullshit.

There really is no hope. If after the studies demonstrating a massive reduction in death rate from these COVID vaccines you still do not accept that, then I certainly have no intention of making any more effort to discuss this. Why should I bother?

 

This review paper, which analysed COVID vaccine effectiveness from dozens of studies conducted all around the world, found that on average that the vaccines reduced death by 99%.

 

But if you don't want to believe science, and prefer to believe that the vaccines are Bill Gate's plan to inject nano robots into the world population, or whatever the latest crazy ideas that circulate on social media, that's up to you. 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 03 December 2022 - 08:49 PM.

[Empiricus]

How many people did COVID vaccine enthusiasts posting on this website persuade to get vaccinated?  Of those persuaded, how many were seriously injured or killed by vaccine side effects? 

[joesixpack]

How many people did COVID vaccine enthusiasts posting on this website persuade to get vaccinated?  Of those persuaded, how many were seriously injured or killed by vaccine side effects? 

 

Well, I can comment on what may be the number of deaths caused by the vaccine. The CDC has reports that indicate about 1.1 million "sudden deaths" since the experimental vaccine's release.

 

People should not attack the source of the information on the CDC reports, as we all know, mainstream media will not report stories like this.

 

Instead, attack the information released by the CDC that the story reveals.

 

https://thewashingto...id-vax-release/

 

Here is some additional information on sudden deaths, by all means read the follow on messages.

 

https://twitter.com/...sage5300595/pg1

Edited by joesixpack, 04 December 2022 - 07:02 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

We might also wish to consider who actually finds and reads posts here at longecity, if we wish to determine whether or not we may be causing public good or harm.  

 

The google MEDIC update of 2018, quite effectively eliminated our little community here from nearly all first page search results.  For instance...  If you google: How many people have Longecity's antivaxers killed so far?, you will not see this thread appear in the first page of search results.  Indeed, it would be difficult to see anything from longecity pop-up on almost any google search you might wish to do.  

 

I've posted here on Ferrotoxic Disease, which is a relatively uncommon term, and have looked to see if my posts show up on google.  The ones where I reference or attach scientific papers sometimes show up well down the list of results, but if published literature is not included in the post, it is essentially invisible.  

 

I used to be group leader of a very active MDjunction group, and the google MEDIC update not only killed the group, but the whole MDjunction website, which was quite large.  

 

Since the google MEDIC update, we've dwindled down to quite a small circle of friends here.  I doubt much of our work can or does benefit or harm anyone in the general public.  Whether or not we've killed-off any of our members?  I guess it's possible, but hardly a genocide event.  Google MEDIC, for all intents & purpose had rendered us largely invisible.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 04 December 2022 - 06:59 AM.

[joesixpack]

We might also wish to consider who actually finds and reads posts here at longecity, if we wish to determine whether or not we may be causing public good or harm.  

 

The google MEDIC update of 2018, quite effectively eliminated our little community here from nearly all first page search results.  For instance...  If you google: How many people have Longecity's antivaxers killed so far?, you will not see this thread appear in the first page of search results.  Indeed, it would be difficult to see anything from longecity pop-up on almost any google search you might wish to do.  

 

I've posted here on Ferrotoxic Disease, which is a relatively uncommon term, and have looked to see if my posts show up on google.  The ones where I reference or attach scientific papers sometimes show up well down the list of results, but if published literature is not included in the post, it is essentially invisible.  

 

I used to be group leader of a very active MDjunction group, and the google MEDIC update not only killed the group, but the whole MDjunction website, which was quite large.  

 

Since the google MEDIC update, we've dwindled down to quite a small circle of friends here.  I doubt much of our work can or does benefit or harm anyone in the general public.  Whether or not we've killed-off any of our members?  I guess it's possible, but hardly a genocide event.  Google MEDIC, for all intents & purpose had rendered us largely invisible.  

I never thought of that I use Duck Duck Go. But you are right, I never come across posts from this site on any search engine.

 

Maybe we should either complain? Or be thankful.

[Empiricus]

We might also wish to consider who actually finds and reads posts here at longecity, if we wish to determine whether or not we may be causing public good or harm.  

 

The google MEDIC update of 2018, quite effectively eliminated our little community here from nearly all first page search results.  For instance...  If you google: How many people have Longecity's antivaxers killed so far?, you will not see this thread appear in the first page of search results.  Indeed, it would be difficult to see anything from longecity pop-up on almost any google search you might wish to do.  

 

You point to the truly important and interesting question about culpability.  That's how many people have been killed or maimed by the medical profession as a result of being steered away from safer, non-pharmaceutical and non-surgical therapies for their health issues as a consequence of alternative treatments getting buried in search results?  And how many people have needlessly died or continue to suffer from serious illnesses that were treatable with therapies that Google prevented them from discovering?  

Edited by Empiricus, 04 December 2022 - 07:39 AM.

[joesixpack]

Yep, I'm fully vaxxed and boosted (J&J in April and November 2021).  Had all my childhood jabs too, and a tetanus boost 5 years ago.  

 

Just say NO to the flu jab though, and won't be getting the omicron jab either.  

 

Am I dyed in the wool anti-vax?  

 

Well, as I said before, I take vaccines that work, I don't take the vaccines that don't work. Flu and Covid 19, after the first 2 dose's come to mind.

 

And to answer the question posed by Hip starting this thread:

 

"Would anyone care to estimate how many people the antivaxers posting on the various Longecity COVID threads have killed so far, with their antivax propaganda?"

 

The answer is: NONE

 

​There are no antivaxers here, and the only people reading this website, have made their own, informed decisions on what vaccines they are willing to take. No deaths reported here.

 

Feel free to take all the boosters you like, please report back on the results.

Edited by joesixpack, 04 December 2022 - 08:32 AM.

[johnhemming]

As for anecdotal information I have had covid at least twice, I have had the original 2 UK vaccinations and also 2 UK boosters.  I, however, am uncomfortable about the tendency for the state to pressurise people to have medical interventions.

[Gal220]

Here is some additional information on sudden deaths, by all means read the follow on messages.

 

https://twitter.com/...sage5300595/pg1

 

Some other accounts to check out for individual stories

https://twitter.com/DiedSuddenly_

https://twitter.com/DrJamesOlsson

https://twitter.com/...c=hashtag_click

 

 

Edward Dowd and Ethical Skeptic are tracking the data

https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic

https://gettr.com/post/p20lmto8538

 

 

@Dorian

In general, most search engines will push down sites critical of vaccines like Robert Kennedy's Childrens Health Defense, unless there is a strong match

So there is an illusion they arent completely hiding them, like Google.  Search engines thinking for you...

 

Yandex.com is the only one I have found that does not censor negative vaccine sites.

[joesixpack]

Some other accounts to check out for individual stories

https://twitter.com/DiedSuddenly_

https://twitter.com/DrJamesOlsson

https://twitter.com/...c=hashtag_click

 

 

Edward Dowd and Ethical Skeptic are tracking the data

https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic

https://gettr.com/post/p20lmto8538

 

 

@Dorian

In general, most search engines will push down sites critical of vaccines like Robert Kennedy's Childrens Health Defense, unless there is a strong match

So there is an illusion they arent completely hiding them, like Google.  Search engines thinking for you...

 

Yandex.com is the only one I have found that does not censor negative vaccine sites.

Thanks for this information.

[Hip]

How many people did COVID vaccine enthusiasts posting on this website persuade to get vaccinated?  Of those persuaded, how many were seriously injured or killed by vaccine side effects? 

 

 Do you remember that the NZ data I shared earlier in this thread demonstrated that the vaccines caused almost no deaths?

[Hip]

The google MEDIC update of 2018, quite effectively eliminated our little community here from nearly all first page search results. 

 

The 2018 Google "medic update" to its search algorithm hit all alternative health websites hard. Any health or medical website which was non-official got relegated into oblivion in Google's search results. 

 

This is sad, but the blame can be pinned on the alternative medicine practitioners, for their gross exaggeration (and often strong anti-pharma stance).

 

For my own health, I like to explore both conventional as well as alternative treatments. However, the super-exaggerated hype you see on some alternative websites it beyond the pale.

 

If you look up any chronic disease (like multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, heart disease, etc) on conventional medical websites, you will get an honest appraisal of the efficacy of pharmaceutical treatments. Most treatments cannot do much, and the conventional websites do not promise to cure you.

 

But look up the same disease on some alternative health websites, and they will tell you with a straight face that their suggested treatments "can completely reverse Parkinson's" and any other disease you care to mention!

 

The alternative health people would have you believe that all the most advanced drugs in the world cannot do much, but taking a few vitamins is going to cure your serious disease. Talk about using blatant dishonesty to sell a product. 

 

So the people to blame for the Google medic update are the alternative medicine practitioners themselves, for downright unbridled hype of their own products. Had they remained honest, and had they not taken this anti-pharma stance, but embraced conventional medicine as well as alternative medicine, I don't think the Google medic update would have been necessary.

 

 

 

History just repeats itself with the way this forum approaches COVID treatments. All the conventional stuff is heavily criticised, whereas alternative ideas are hyped up beyond all restrains. 

[Mr Serendipity]

At the end of the day it all comes down to personal choice and medical freedom.

 

Personally I don't trust the government, the mainstream media, or the healthcare system. Paranoid perhaps, but I have my reasons. I didn't get the vaccine, but I also got covid early on before the vaccines were available (the only advice the NHS gave then was to take some paracetamol), and even though covid was brutal for me (and I ended up taking hydroxychloroquine for the last couples of weeks), I believed afterward I had natural immunity which was another reason for me not to get the vaccine when they were available.

 

I have no regrets not taking the vaccine. I have no regrets not wearing a mask. Let people make their own choices in life regarding their health.

[Hip]

As for anecdotal information I have had covid at least twice, I have had the original 2 UK vaccinations and also 2 UK boosters.  I, however, am uncomfortable about the tendency for the state to pressurise people to have medical interventions.

 

Is there actually any pressure applied by Western governments, though, or is the strong pro-vaccine messaging from government just a counterbalance the strong anti-vaccine messaging publicised by highly organised antivax groups that ply their trade on social media, such as the group run by Robert F Kennedy Jr (who makes $millions of the filthy lucre from his antivax operation — the man is like the Grim Reaper)?

 

 

It is interesting to look at the spiritually enlightened Buddhist Kingdom of Bhutan, a country whose official philosophy is to promote "Gross National Happiness" instead of the Gross Domestic Product. Bhutan believes that the happiness and welfare of the people should always be the primary concern in life, not how much profit a country can make. So with such a great consideration for the people, what happened in Bhutan, you might ask, regarding the COVID vaccines?

 

Well Bhutan has always thought vaccines are very important for the health and happiness of the population, so when it came to the COVID vaccines, they were very well organised in getting this lifesaver out to the populace. And Bhutan had one of the highest COVID vaccination rates in the world with 94% of adults choosing to get vaccinated. 

 

If only the West were as spiritual and people-oriented as these Buddhists.

Edited by Hip, 05 December 2022 - 03:28 AM.

[Empiricus]

Is there actually any pressure applied by Western governments, though, or is the strong pro-vaccine messaging from government just a counterbalance the strong anti-vaccine messaging publicised by highly organised antivax groups that ply their trade on social media, such as the group run by Robert F Kennedy Jr (who makes $millions of the filthy lucre from his antivax operation — the man is like the Grim Reaper)?

 

 

It is interesting to look at the spiritually enlightened Buddhist Kingdom of Bhutan, a country whose official philosophy is to promote "Gross National Happiness" instead of the Gross Domestic Product. Bhutan believes that the happiness and welfare of the people should always be the primary concern in life, not how much profit a country can make. So with such a great consideration for the people, what happened in Bhutan, you might ask, regarding the COVID vaccines?

 

Well Bhutan has always thought vaccines are very important for the health and happiness of the population, so when it came to the COVID vaccines, they were very well organised in getting this lifesaver out to the populace. And Bhutan had one of the highest COVID vaccination rates in the world with 94% of adults choosing to get vaccinated. 

 

If only the West were as spiritual and people-oriented as these Buddhists.

 

Developing countries exhibit blind reverence for what is the standard of care in the for-profit United States system.  

 

Imagine being a top public health official in little Bhutan.  Are you going to defy the recommendations of FDA, CDC, Harvard, Stanford, and the Mayo Clinic?  What are your credentials?  Most of the educated people in your poor little country revere American science and tech.  They don't realize the American medical system is optimized for the accumulation of investor wealth rather than human health and longevity.  

[joesixpack]

Developing countries exhibit blind reverence for what is the standard of care in the for-profit United States system.  

 

Imagine being a top public health official in little Bhutan.  Are you going to defy the recommendations of FDA, CDC, Harvard, Stanford, and the Mayo Clinic?  What are your credentials?  Most of the educated people in your poor little country revere American science and tech.  They don't realize the American medical system is optimized for the accumulation of investor wealth rather than human health and longevity.  

 

To the dufe that emojdied "ill informed", you are an idiot. The poster nailed it right on the head.

[joesixpack]

"Is there actually any pressure applied by Western governments, though, or is the strong pro-vaccine messaging from government just a counterbalance the strong anti-vaccine messaging publicised by highly organised antivax groups that ply their trade on social media, such as the group run by Robert F Kennedy Jr (who makes $millions of the filthy lucre from his antivax operation — the man is like the Grim Reaper)?"

 

From Hip, above, my comments are below.

 

Are you shitting me? Ever heard of Mandates? Take the vaccination or loose your job. Pushed on health care workers, and public workers in most states. Pushed by the Feds. Also the Military mandates, which Biden just backed off of today. A little late for for all those workers who lost their jobs over it because of people like you. 

Edited by joesixpack, 05 December 2022 - 07:00 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

It is unfortunate the WHO, Bill Gates & politician MDs like Fauci who haven't treated a patient in decades have teamed up with the distinctly for profit Big Pharma companies to rule over the world of modern medicine.  

 

Tedros (WHO) and Bill Gates aren't even doctors, yet they exert the greatest influence on pandemic & vaccine policy on the planet.  

 

Meanwhile, doctors like Zelenko, McCullough, & Kory who are actually treating patients in the field and reporting success are dismissed as charlatans, and actively struck-off by their governing bodies.  Actual patient testimonials are aggressively removed from public forums by Big Tech, with the blessing of those in political power.  

 

We live in interesting times.  

[Hip]

Developing countries exhibit blind reverence for what is the standard of care in the for-profit United States system.  

 

I am not so sure. People in developing countries often have a knack of selecting the best things that come out of the 1st world, and ignoring the bad things.  

 

Furthermore, vaccine hesitancy in each country does not correspond to whether the country is a 1st world or 3rd world nation.

 

If you look at the June 2021 data for the degree of vaccine hesitancy by country in Figure 1 of a study, you see that vaccine hesitancy is high in the US and France, and these are 1st world nations; but hesitancy is also high in Nigeria, Russia, South Africa and Ghana, which are all developing countries. 

 

But vaccine hesitancy is very low in Brazil and Peru which are developing nations too. 

[Hip]

Ever heard of Mandates? Take the vaccination or loose your job. Pushed on health care workers, and public workers in most states. Pushed by the Feds. Also the Military mandates, which Biden just backed off of today. A little late for for all those workers who lost their jobs over it because of people like you.

 
Let's begin by understanding that antivaxers are a strangle death cult, like these weird religious cults that all commit suicide!

 

 

Now you might argue that if an antivaxer wants to go ahead and kill themselves, that's their business. 

 

The rock singer Meatloaf killed himself in this way. Meatloaf was fiercely against being coerced into taking the vaccine, and said "if I die, I die, but I'm not going to be controlled". Well he caught COVID — and died. But he stated he preferred death to coercion, so that was his decision. 

 

 

Unfortunately though, vaccine decisions also affect others and affect the taxpayer. With all these many thousands of unvaccinated people dying each day of COVID in hospital (and it takes 18 days on average to die of COVID, so the unvaccinated occupy a bed for a few weeks before they pop it), this prevents other people from getting the hospital treatment they need, because no beds are available, and because of the strain placed on hospital staff looking after the COVID patients. If the antivaxers would just die quietly at home, that would not cause an issue, but their slow death in hospital drains medical resources.

 

Also, for unvaccinated parents who die of COVID, the taxpayer may now have to help support the spouse and children of those families. So an individual's decision not to vaccinate can cost the taxpayer a hell of a lot of money in social welfare when they die of COVID. Their decision not to vaccinate can also have tragic consequences for the kids who now have to grow up without a father or mother. So if you are a parent, your decision whether to vaccinate has consequences for your spouse and kids. 

 

Furthermore, vaccination offers a degree of protection from long COVID. Now most people with long COVID are going to remain ill for the rest of their lives, unable to work, and requiring support from the state. So the taxpayer has to pay out even more money. It's estimated that long COVID will cost the US about half a $trillion each and every year, for the next 60 years or so.

 

So the bottom line is, antivaxers are not just asking for the right to refuse vaccination; they are also asking for a hell of a lot of money from the taxpayer should they die of COVID.

 

Why should the taxpayer pay for these antivaxers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 06 December 2022 - 02:54 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

 
Let's begin by understanding that antivaxers are a strangle death cult, like these weird religious cults that all commit suicide!

 

 

Now you might argue that if an antivaxer wants to go ahead and kill themselves, that's their business. 

 

The rock singer Meatloaf killed himself in this way. Meatloaf was fiercely against being coerced into taking the vaccine, and said "if I die, I die, but I'm not going to be controlled". Well he caught COVID — and died. But he stated he preferred death to coercion, so that was his decision. 

 

 

Unfortunately though, vaccine decisions also affect others and affect the taxpayer. With all these many thousands of unvaccinated people dying each day of COVID in hospital (and it takes 18 days on average to die of COVID, so the unvaccinated occupy a bed for a few weeks before they pop it), this prevents other people from getting the hospital treatment they need, because no beds are available, and because of the strain placed on hospital staff looking after the COVID patients. If the antivaxers would just die quietly at home, that would not cause an issue, but their slow death in hospital drains medical resources.

 

Also, for unvaccinated parents who die of COVID, the taxpayer may now have to help support the spouse and children of those families. So an individual's decision not to vaccinate can cost the taxpayer a hell of a lot of money in social welfare when they die of COVID. Their decision not to vaccinate can also have tragic consequences for the kids who now have to grow up without a father or mother. So if you are a parent, your decision whether to vaccinate has consequences for your spouse and kids. 

 

Furthermore, vaccination offers a degree of protection from long COVID. Now most people with long COVID are going to remain ill for the rest of their lives, unable to work, and requiring support from the state. So the taxpayer has to pay out even more money. It's estimated that long COVID will cost the US about half a $trillion each and every year, for the next 60 years or so.

 

So the bottom line is, antivaxers are not just asking for the right to refuse vaccination; they are also asking for a hell of a lot of money from the taxpayer should they die of COVID.

 

Why should the taxpayer pay for these antivaxers?

 

Is your data and hypothesis generated from pre-omicron or post-omicron time.  Pre-Paxlovid or post-Paxlovid.  

 

Remember, we're in a completely different universe now, and this changes everything.  

 

I got vaxxed & boosted when disease was severe and treatments were few.  

 

That was then...  This is now.

 

 

Let's NOT go Living in the Past

Edited by Dorian Grey, 06 December 2022 - 04:12 AM.

[joesixpack]

"So the bottom line is, antivaxers are not just asking for the right to refuse vaccination; they are also asking for a hell of a lot of money from the taxpayer should they die of COVID.

 

Why should the taxpayer pay for these antivaxers?" quote from Hip

 

You have devolved from a ranting Vaccine activist, to a complete idiot.

 

Who is asking for  a "hell of o lot of money from the taxpayer"?

 

Here is a hint, when a pharmaceutical company requires a "no responsibility, no legal liability" agreement before producing a "vaccine", you have a real problem.

 

Meatloaf died, no-one knows if he was vaccinated, but he probably was, because he was a performer. Your wacky claims and conclusions are also garbage.

 

Again, the consensus is the vaccine does not prevent infection, it does not prevent spread, and the claim that it does not prevent death or long covid, has no basis in fact or research. 

 

So give us some facts, or get lost, you are getting a little tedious.

 

And again, there are no Anti Vaxers here. We are offended by your repeated claims in that regard.

 

So please refrain from that diatribe. And if you have something positive to add to the conversation, please provide it. That is all.

Edited by joesixpack, 06 December 2022 - 06:52 AM.

[Empiricus]

 

Furthermore, vaccination offers a degree of protection from long COVID. Now most people with long COVID are going to remain ill for the rest of their lives, unable to work, and requiring support from the state. So the taxpayer has to pay out even more money. It's estimated that long COVID will cost the US about half a $trillion each and every year, for the next 60 years or so.

 

How could you or anyone else know how long these people will suffer?   Who are you to consign them to a life sentence?  

 

I had chronic fatigue syndrome, but had made a full recovery within about 10 years.  

 

The duration of long covid in bad cases is unknown.  Assertions that the afflicted will be ill with long covid for "the rest of their lives" are mere speculation and lack any empirical basis.  It's not just Hip making such unfounded claims, the media has frequently fear-mongered that long covid will never go away.  They've even published reports on miserable people who allegedly killed themselves after just a year of long covid, actually believing they would never recover!   

Edited by Empiricus, 06 December 2022 - 09:54 AM.

[Hip]

How could you or anyone else know how long these people will suffer?   Who are you to consign them to a life sentence?  

 

I had chronic fatigue syndrome, but had made a full recovery within about 10 years.  

 

The duration of long covid in bad cases is unknown.  Assertions that the afflicted will be ill with long covid for "the rest of their lives" are mere speculation and lack any empirical basis.  It's not just Hip making such unfounded claims, the media has frequently fear-mongered that long covid will never go away.  They've even published reports on miserable people who allegedly killed themselves after just a year of long covid, actually believing they would never recover!   

 

How I am guessing that long COVID will be a lifetime sentence in most cases? Because I know a lot about ME/CFS.

 

It looks at this point that long COVID is just myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). Identical symptoms. ME/CFS usually starts after a viral infection with certain viruses, such as enterovirus or EBV. So SARS-CoV-2 may just be another virus that can cause ME/CFS.

 

Some people have had ME/CFS from SARS-CoV-1 for nearly 20 years (from the SARS epidemic of 2003), and studies show they are not recovering. So we might expect the same with SARS-CoV-2.

 

 

If you look at longitudinal studies on ME/CFS, you find that recovery is rare; ME/CFS is usually a lifetime affliction. I've been on ME/CFS forums many hours daily for the 16 years that I have had ME/CFS, and I can verify from observing and talking to many thousands of ME/CFS patients that recovery is very rare.

 

Note that lots of people recover from post-viral fatigue after about 6 months or so. That's well known. But if the post-viral fatigue continues for more than a year or two, then it seems to turn into ME/CFS, and becomes a permanent condition. Nobody knows why, but that is observed.

 

 

The only people who promote the idea that recovery from ME/CFS is common are the bullshitting psychiatrists who say that ME/CFS is an imaginary psychosomatic condition rather than a real biological disease. The ME/CFS community despise these psychiatrists with a vengeance. 

 

 

 

If you recovered from ME/CFS within 10 years, you are an exception. Did you have proper ME/CFS as defined by the Canadian consensus criteria? People can have fatiguing illnesses which are not ME/CFS. And were you at the moderate or severe level of ME/CFS, or mild?

[Hip]

Who is asking for  a "hell of o lot of money from the taxpayer"?

 
What I said should be self explanatory. It costs the taxpayer money to support single parent families. It costs the taxpayer money to support people with chronic diseases who are not able to work. Most people are aware of that.
 
Furthermore, young children don't like it when their parents die. It's deeply emotional upsetting, and negatively affects them the rest of their lives. 10.5 million children have lot a parent to COVID worldwide. 

 

You seem to be against coercion of vaccination, presumably because you think each person is an individual who must be allowed to make their own choice. What I am trying to point out is that no man is an island, and individual vaccine decisions affect the whole of society: hospitals, the taxpayer and the families of love ones who die unvaccinated of COVID.

 

You might think as an individual you have the right to drive at 100 mph past an infant school, but society has laws to discourage you from doing that, because your behaviour can have a detrimental effect on others. When others can be harmed, laws need to be made to protect them. If you can understand this point, then you can begin to understand the moral and economic rationale for vaccine coercion. 

 

Again, the consensus is the vaccine does not prevent infection, it does not prevent spread, and the claim that it does not prevent death or long covid, has no basis in fact or research.
 
So give us some facts, or get lost, you are getting a little tedious.

 
I gave you the facts earlier with a link to a review study about how the vaccines prevent death. Why did you not read it?
 
In Taiwan, the government were effective at getting the vaccine message across by explaining everything to the public by using cartoon characters. Childish but effective. If you don't want to read the studies, then maybe search for some more simple vaccine explanations.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 06 December 2022 - 09:42 PM.

[Empiricus]

How I am guessing that long COVID will be a lifetime sentence in most cases? Because I know a lot about ME/CFS.

 

It looks at this point that long COVID is just myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). Identical symptoms. ME/CFS usually starts after a viral infection with certain viruses, such as enterovirus or EBV. So SARS-CoV-2 may just be another virus that can cause ME/CFS.

 

Some people have had ME/CFS from SARS-CoV-1 for nearly 20 years (from the SARS epidemic of 2003), and studies show they are not recovering. So we might expect the same with SARS-CoV-2.

 

If you look at longitudinal studies on ME/CFS, you find that recovery is rare; ME/CFS is usually a lifetime affliction. I've been on ME/CFS forums many hours daily for the 16 years that I have had ME/CFS, and I can verify from observing and talking to many thousands of ME/CFS patients that recovery is very rare.

 

Note that lots of people recover from post-viral fatigue after about 6 months or so. That's well known. But if the post-viral fatigue continues for more than a year or two, then it seems to turn into ME/CFS, and becomes a permanent condition. Nobody knows why, but that is observed.

 

The only people who promote the idea that recovery from ME/CFS is common are the bullshitting psychiatrists who say that ME/CFS is an imaginary psychosomatic condition rather than a real biological disease. The ME/CFS community despise these psychiatrists with a vengeance. 

 

If you recovered from ME/CFS within 10 years, you are an exception. Did you have proper ME/CFS as defined by the Canadian consensus criteria? People can have fatiguing illnesses which are not ME/CFS. And were you at the moderate or severe level of ME/CFS, or mild?

 

I'm recovering from long covid myself, and the symptoms of long covid are distinct from my former CFS symptoms.  There is fatigue in both illnesses, but long covid fatigue is totally different.  CFS fatigue was more debilitating. I would take long covid over CFS any day.  Having had both, I don't believe that long covid is related to CFS, even though both check some of the same boxes.

 

I think patients you find of many disease forums are not a representative sample.  I think aspects of disease forum culture can be detrimental to the recovery of the members, especially where there is a bias towards conventional medicine. Many disease forums receive funding from drug companies, and this can impact the moderation policies, putting certain treatment modalities off-limits.  In the worst of these forums, the members believe a pharmaceutical company is one day going to develop a cure for their disease, and they believe that's their best hope.  I suspect many of those who recover don't stick around, or never got sucked into the culture of such a forum.   

[joesixpack]

You might find the FLCCC Long Covid Protocol helpful.

 

https://covid19criticalcare.com/treatment-protocols/