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benefits of vegetarianism? Myth?


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#1 Ghostrider

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:33 PM


A few weeks ago, I sat down to eat a dinner consisting of steak. Although I ordered the steak to be cooked "medium", it was a bit too rare for my tastes. I could seek some blood run out of it as I stabbed my fork into the steak and I felt a bit disgusted. I also don't like eating chicken or other tender meats outside of seafood as it seems to resemble human flesh a bit too closely (no I don't have a baseline for this comparison :-)). At college, once a year they had this anti-carnivore exhibit which showed images from the slaughtering of a cow. So I have given thought to giving up meat entirely or severely cutting back on my consumption of meat. Are there any cognitive benefits derived from not eating meat? Any overall health benefits? Longevity?

#2 Shepard

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:35 PM

The vegetarians will say 'yes'. The non-vegetarians will say 'no'. There are already a few discussions on this topic throughout the board.

#3 Mark Hamalainen

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 08:14 PM

Are there any cognitive benefits derived from not eating meat? Any overall health benefits? Longevity?


The health and longevity benefits of your diet aren't really dependent on whether you eat meat, you can do either type of diet well or poor. Given that, it is a moral choice for you to make... whether you're comfortable with the unnecessary suffering and murder of animals or not.

#4 Pablo M

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 10:28 PM

The vegetarians will say 'yes'. The non-vegetarians will say 'no'. There are already a few discussions on this topic throughout the board.

Good point. I am a vegetarian, and I advise you to make up your own mind. If you find yourself repulsed by meat this might be an indication not to eat it.

#5 explorer

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 10:39 PM

I've been a vegetarian for only about a year now. I think you can be healthy with or without meat. Everything in moderation. I think eventually I'll probably eat some chicken or seafood......... but I'm not dieing for any yet !

#6 scottl

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 10:53 PM

The key is what is right for each person. I don't think the concept of biochemical individuality gets stressed enough i.e. one cannot prescribe the same diet, supps, exercise, etc for everyone and expect it to be optimal for everyone. Some people thrive on vegetarian diets, some do OK on either diet (with or without meat), and some (and I are one) do best on a diet with meat.

So how do you know which group you fall into? Eat a HEALTHY diet without meat and then try a healthy diet with meat. See yow you feel. try this test several times until you have some sense. IF you are eatting a veggie diet and get cravings for e.g. beef that may well be telling you something (sugar cravings can be perhaps said to be universal, but not e.g. beef cravings).

Harvey raises a supurb point:

"So the choice to be vegetarian or not is not the primary choice, in my opinion. It is a choice to eat healthy or not"

Others are advertisements for why my signature is there.

#7 doug123

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 11:10 PM

A vegetarian needs to take as a dietary supplement:

1. B-12 (I would suggest Methyl b-12, as it's in the best form)

Clin Chem Lab Med. 2005;43(10):1164-9
The vegetarian lifestyle and DNA methylation.Geisel J, Schorr H, Bodis M, Isber S, Hubner U, Knapp JP, Obeid R, Herrmann W.
Department of Clinical Chemistry, Saarland Medical School, Homburg, Germany. kchjgei@uniklinik-saarland.de

Vegetarians have a lower intake of vitamin B12 than omnivores do. Vitamin B12 deficiency (holotranscobalamin II <35 pmol/L or methylmalonic acid >271 nmol/L) was found in 58% of 71 vegetarians studied. Higher homocysteine levels (>12 micromol/L) found in 45% indicate disturbed remethylation of homocysteine to methionine. The methylation of DNA is strongly linked to homocysteine metabolism. Since DNA methylation is an important epigenetic factor in the regulation of gene expression, alteration of the methylation pattern has been associated with aging, cancer, atherosclerosis and other diseases. Three observations indicate that DNA methylation could be diminished by a vegetarian lifestyle. The vegetarian diet has a low content of methionine, remethylation of homocysteine is reduced by vitamin B12 deficiency and elevated homocysteine levels can induce the generation of S-adenosylhomocysteine (SAH), a potent inhibitor of methyltransferases. In our study we observed a significant correlation between SAH and whole-genome methylation (r=-0.36, p<0.01). This observation underlines the role of SAH as a potent inhibitor of methyltransferases. The methylation status was not correlated with homocysteine or S-adenosylemethionine (SAM). These results indicate that the degree of methylation does not depend on the supply of methyl groups and that the reverse generation of SAH has no influence. In addition to whole-genome methylation, the specific promoter methylation of the p66Shc gene was studied. However, the latter did not correlate with SAH, SAM or homocysteine. Obviously, the promoter methylation of the p66Shc gene is controlled in a specific way, without following the general regulating influence of SAH. In conclusion, an inhibitory effect of SAH on whole-genome methylation was found, but from our data no interaction between vegetarian lifestyle and DNA methylation could be determined.

PMID: 16197315 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


2. L-Carnosine

Would carnosine or a carnivorous diet help suppress aging and associated pathologies?Hipkiss AR.
Centre for Experimental Therapeutics, William Harvey Research Institute, Barts' and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry, UK. alanandjill@lineone.net

Carnosine (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) is found exclusively in animal tissues. Carnosine has the potential to suppress many of the biochemical changes (e.g., protein oxidation, glycation, AGE formation, and cross-linking) that accompany aging and associated pathologies. Glycation, generation of advanced glycosylation end-products (AGEs), and formation of protein carbonyl groups play important roles in aging, diabetes, its secondary complications, and neurodegenerative conditions. Due to carnosine's antiglycating activity, reactivity toward deleterious carbonyls, zinc- and copper-chelating activity and low toxicity, carnosine and related structures could be effective against age-related protein carbonyl stress. It is suggested that carnivorous diets could be beneficial because of their carnosine content, as the dipeptide has been shown to suppress some diabetic complications in mice. It is also suggested that carnosine's therapeutic potential should be explored with respect to neurodegeneration. Olfactory tissue is normally enriched in carnosine, but olfactory dysfunction is frequently associated with neurodegeneration. Olfactory administration of carnosine could provide a direct route to compromised tissue, avoiding serum carnosinases.

PMID: 16804013 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


3. Creatine Monohydrate:

Posted Image

4. Acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR)

Posted Image

5. R-alpha-lipoic acid (at least 100-200mg per 2000mg ALCAR) to assist with extra free radicals from ALCAR

I'll get back to this topic later...

#8 emerson

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 06:49 AM

I've never seen too much science behind this topic. As with some other posters, I'd say it's more important to eat 'well', no matter what the source. Beyond that, it's a matter of personal ethics.

#9 doug123

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 07:35 AM

My brother and sister both used to be vegetarians...for some reason they decided to switch over....I've been vegetarian since I was about 13 or 14. Now I'm the only vegetarian in my whole family.

If I did eat meat, I would feel 1000% times better eating free range animals (such as are available at Whole Foods Market).

I believe there are more than ethics involved...there is also the question of finding a dead carcass appetizing (I don't -- geez, is that thing like..dead? Ew!)...I think that is a rather primitive instinct...that, with the passing of the agricultural revolution, I believe should pass as well. It is also very inefficient to use animals as a food source. It is not a long term viable solution considering the current population growth statistics.

The bottom line is we don't NEED to kill to eat AND the food alternatives are quite excellent for a vegetarian if you know how to cook or live where vegetarianism/veganism is also considered "hip" and "sexy" -- especially in LA, San Diego, and many other parts of California I've visited.

#10 pwk11

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 05:44 PM

Ive been on Atkin`ws diet for 6 years. I eat mostly lean meat ,and was eating a stick of butter with lemon and garlic over the meat most days, 4 eggs and pork roll every morning.Almost no carbs. Plus supplements and psylium husk powder for fiber. I lost 40 lbs{240 to 200lbs},and I bought a home cholesterol checker[total,hdl,triglycerides,and ldl and ratio from an equation}.My total dropped from 317 to 200, triclycerides at 77, hdl 95,and ratio 3:1 after 6 months on the diet. I was shocked. But Atkins said this will happen when eating high fat/protien diet without the carbs. All counts are still the same 5+ years later. And the numerous miday energy dips are much less as well.
I supplement as well with magnesium,calcium,vit c,d,ect.
I also last year tried red yeast rice which brought my total choleserol down to 180. My wieght
stayed between 198-205lbs {i am 6`1" tall with more than average muscle from medium lifting} for the entire time. As long as I stick to diet.
Also a freind of mine went on a vegie diet and due to the lack of essential fats{needed for the skin},his face became very lined and gaunt.
Usually when I tell people all this they just say " Well It just cant be right. I mean, all ive ever heard about diet since I was a kid goes against it"
Well very low fat and high exercise diet{1 hour a day in stairmaster on high setting,and wieght lifting,and martials arts classed 3x a week} kept me fat,tired,and with high cholesterol. Go figure. Paul

#11 ajnast4r

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 12:41 AM

atkins diet is a great way to kill yourself really early


as far as whats healthier... both can be equally healthy if planned right. although eating meat does up your cancer risk significantly.

i personally am a vegatrian... and i dont know any vegetarians that choose to be so for health reasons, its almost universally for ethical reasons.

#12 zarathustra

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:55 AM

atkins diet is a great way to kill yourself really early


Prove that or at least give some arguments!

There are many people who have eaten low carb for fifty years or even longer without a problem.

The austrian doctor wolfgang lutz, author of "life without bread", has eaten a low carb (less than 70 grams a day) high animal fat diet for about fifty years and he is still alive. He is 93 years old now. Here's picture:

Posted Image

Edited by zarathustra, 07 August 2006 - 04:15 AM.


#13 Shepard

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:26 AM

The austrian doctor wolfgang lutz, author of "life without bread", has eaten a low carb (less than 70 grams a day) high animal fat diet for about fifty years and he is still alive. He is 93 years old now.


Well, I'm convinced.

#14 doug123

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 08:56 AM

Jeremy: you are developing an excellent sense of humor. ;) But don't forget: sarcasm kills.

#15 ajnast4r

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 12:27 PM

ok well a extremely small percept of the population are set up genetically that they can live on a diet like that...for the rest of us... high animal fat = early death

this arguement has been pretty much beated to death

#16 pwk11

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:32 PM

It`s been beaten to death and not resolved because most people live and debate from thier "beliefs? instead of facts. I was one of those until I tried the diet and tested myself.{results listed my original post} The main fear people have of this diet is thier cholsterol levels getting too high. It was mine as well. But they dropped drastically as Atkin`s said they would{it went up at first however,then dropped and stayed down}.And stayed down. I have MORE energy now.LESS energy dips due to more stedy blood sugar. Ive been on it 6+ years.
Dr. Atkins has been telling people this since the 1950`s.He lived to 73 very healthy on the diet with millions of people doing the same worldwide. And still people refuse to SEE these FACTS.
But one thing I`ve learned over the years is, "it`s USLESS to agrue with people`s belief systems"
All I can do is share my story.
I hear about the "balanced diet" I grew up with.Watching my entire family get fatter and fatter on it. Most unhealthy by now. Some dead.
WE all know from trying to balance these nootropic supplements just how individual a task balancing actually is.
Atkin`s said his diet isnt for everyone,but it is for most.
I grew up hearing," it`s not the bread, it`s what you put on it."
I KNOW now that for me and MANY others Ive communicated with,....it`s the bread.

#17 ikaros

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:11 PM

I've understood that Atkins diet is burdensome to kidneys and liver, especially because of the high protein and fat content which might have negative effects in the long run. Though I am not a vegetarian, I limit my meat (mostly fish) intake to about 15% of the things I eat, also fat consumption is about 5%. I used to have many skin problems, but they reduced to almost zero after the change. I think I felt more energetic when I ate meat, but I've managed to counteract the drop through supplementation.

#18 zarathustra

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:30 PM

ok well a extremely small percept of the population are set up genetically that they can live on a diet like that...for the rest of us... high animal fat = early death

this arguement has been pretty much beated to death



I can't believe that such highly educated people in here still believe in this myth!

please, do me a favour and study the articles on the following sites:

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
http://www.thincs.org/

or read these books:

http://www.amazon.co...ie=UTF8&s=books
http://www.amazon.co...4347814?ie=UTF8

#19 zarathustra

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:52 PM

If you're wondering how my diet looks like:

I've been eating a very low carb high animal fat diet for about 18 months. I began this diet initially to treat my various health problems, basically skin problems (acne and eczema), but also brain fog, nervousness, low energy, disturbed sleep and some more minor symptoms.
I had tremendous success with improving various of my health problems. My skin is almost totally clear! It's not dry anymore and very soft. Almost all eczemas are gone. My terrible brain fog syndrome, from which I suffered very badly, seems to be gone for good. I had a constantly clear mind for the last half year or so.

My carbohydrate intake is about between 30-50 grams a day. My protein intake is about between 100-120 grams a day. The rest of my calories come from fat. About 65-70% of my calories come from fat! I eat lots of good natural fats. I always fry with coconut oil, the most stable fat in nature. I take one teaspoon of cod liver oil from garden of life. I eat about 3 eggs every day. I eat lots of organic raw milk butter, which luckily is available here in every health food store. I eat liver and kidneys once a week and fresh red meat, basically from gras fed animals, almost every day. I also have raw milk cheese quite often. I try to avoid processed meats as good as I can. In the last 18 months, I also almost totally avoided:
-grains
-legumes
-lactose
-processed foods
-nuts (i do eat macadamia occasionally, they are low in carbs and omega-6)
-high oxalate vegetables
-high amounts of raw salads
-high amounts of fruits and berries

From the plant kingdom, I basically eat easy digestable cooked vegetables (potatoes, carrots, cauliflower, broccoli, celery, fennel etc.) and fruits (half a banana or pear at a time).

My diet is inspired by Wolfgang Lutz, Jan Kwasniewski, Weston Price Foundation, Mary and Michael Eades, Anthony Colpo and many others.

#20 ajnast4r

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 05:46 PM

high fat diet causes me to be lethargic & foggy, makes me nauseated, and causes acne...

its not about beliefs, its about genetics... to say all, or even most people could get along on that type of diet is simply untrue.

there is quite a bit of dietary biodiversity, and the minority are the people who can survive well on that type of diet.

http://www.cbsnews.c...ain584585.shtml

#21 pwk11

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 05:51 PM

Yes, I have heard SOOOO many of these testimonials online,in forums and in my personal life that to me,it`s common knowledge.
Again not for everyone.
I know a few people who are vegans.They are wonderful people who care a great deal about animals and the environment,but their faces are drawn and gaunt,and lined from lack of essential fats in their skin. And very pale and frail looking. But they are thin.
Again not all vegans.
Paul

#22 zarathustra

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 06:00 PM

It's always easy to blame genes for individual intolerances.

Have you ever wondered why we humans have such a huge gallbladder? We are very well prepared for fat digestion. It's just that a lot of vegetarians have impaired fat digestion through chronic low fat consumption. It may also be, because they lack certain nutrients needed for bile production. For instance, taurine, an amino acid only found in animal protein, is necessary for bile acid conjugation.

You can't expect to feel good immediately with a high animal fat diet, if you're not used to it. It takes several months or even years until your digestion becomes fully adapted.

In my opinion, most people draw false conclusions, when they try a higher fat meal for one time and have adverse reactions. You can judge a dietary regimen only after several months or even a few years.

#23 pwk11

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 06:27 PM

Yes Atkin`s mentions in his book how he had marathon runners try the diet. At first is was hard for them. I`m sure if they had just tried the diet for that,they would have given up. But it was a long term study so they had to stick with it. They soon aclimated to the diet and did well on it. I believe it did take a couple of months.
I am paraphrasing this as I remember it,I dont have the book at hand.
What I also find interesting is as long as I keep my carbs low,under 50 grams a day,I`m good. When I "slip" and ingest more,it sets up a snowball effect and I continually want more and more carbs.I am a recovering alcoholic 10 years sober and the craving and emotional cycle is exactly the same,only on a smaller scale.I get fearful and feel i MUST have it.Booze is after all sugar. It makes me wonder how much of a part this has to play in alcoholism. paul

Edited by pwk11, 07 August 2006 - 06:41 PM.


#24 kenj

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 08:02 PM

I had tremendous success with improving various of my health problems.


Zarathustra, you may have been improving *some* insulin resistance with the, almost exclusive, high animal fat diet (also avoiding the processed foods) ?, I believe combining (excessive) carbohydrates with trans-fats (french fries OMG, cookies) is the real killer in causing syndrome X-like symptoms and accelerating the "suicide",
also one, with the high meat intake, would get a lot of precursors for (sex) hormone synthesis, yielding greater energy and stamina.

BUT, and this is no religion, I'd STILL follow a (supplement-enhanced) vegetable/fruit-derived diet (the Okinawans with a very high lifespan, do eat ALOT of vegetables (besides having a low calorie intake)) with moderate protein, and moderate healthy fat intake (ideally a CR diet, but I'm not there yet), because I think it is the optimal #1 way to continuously *detoxify* your body, *while* ensuring hGH production and thus, superior health.

If I had progressive syndrome X symptoms, I'd up the healthy fat and vegetable intake and lower my protein, besides going heavy with supplementation.
I *may* get a long life on grass-fed cattle, but, I wouldn't swap my bowl of organic vegetables for it! Still, a steak here and there I enjoy.

BTW, I get the same indications for improved health as you (warning! *subjective rave*: maaaagnified sustained, very stable, energy, aSTOUNding skin health, supernaturally improved, razor-sharp awareness [lol]) from following this diet, I'm 6-foot-1 (187 centimeters) and weigh 168 pounds (76 kilos) - 10% bf

#25 zarathustra

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 09:50 PM

Zarathustra, you may have been improving *some* insulin resistance with the, almost exclusive, high animal fat diet (also avoiding the processed foods) ?

The avoidance of processed foods cannot be the primary reason, why my current diet improved various of my health problems, since I avoided processed foods for at least 2 years prior to the start of the low carb diet. Although I ate lots of vegetables, salads, whole grains, legumes, sprouts, fruits, so called healthy fats (the monounsaturated) and moderate protein and took supplements, my health actually DECREASED during that time. I still suffered from acne, hypoglycemia, terrible brain fog, eczema etc.

Don't get me wrong, I still believe that vegetables in moderation can be healthy, but too much of hard to digest plant foods (raw salads, lots of fiber, whole grains etc.) can be very detrimental in a lot of people (especially in those with dysbiosis, leaky gut syndrome etc.)

The Okinawans with a very high lifespan, do eat ALOT of vegetables (besides having a low calorie intake)) with moderate protein, and moderate healthy fat intake (ideally a CR diet, but I'm not there yet), because I think it is the optimal #1 way to continuously *detoxify* your body, *while* ensuring hGH production and thus, superior health.


Well, I don't believe in the "politically correct interpretation" of the Okinawan diet. Proponents of the Okinawan diet often fail to mention some important aspects of the Okinawan diet, which don't fit to their belief systems. For instance:

The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthy—and very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine.19 And the whole pig is eaten—everything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per day—compared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in China—and at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lard—not vegetable oil—is used in cooking.
http://www.westonapr...d_in_china.html

It's also interesting to note, that the Japanese individuals with the highest intake of cholesterol and animal fat actually have the lowest incidence of stroke! This is a rather challenging finding for proponents of the "politically correct interpretation" of the okinawan diet, who tell us, that it is the low fat high carbohydrate aspect (amongst other aspects) of the okinawan diet, that explains their longevity.


Stroke. 2004 Jul;35(7):1531-7. Epub 2004 May 27.

Animal protein, animal fat, and cholesterol intakes and risk of cerebral infarction mortality in the adult health study.

Sauvaget C, Nagano J, Hayashi M, Yamada M.
Department of Epidemiology, Radiation Effects Research Foundation, Hiroshima, Japan. sauvaget@rerf.jp

BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: A traditional diet that is poor in animal products is thought to explain the high rate of stroke in Asian populations. The purpose of the present study was to examine the effect of a diet rich in animal protein, animal fat, and cholesterol on the risk of cerebral infarction mortality in a Japanese population. METHODS: A prospective study of 3731 Japanese men and women aged 35 to 89 years was conducted from 1984 to 2001. Nutrient intake was estimated at baseline from the responses to a 24-hour diary. During the follow-up period, cases of cerebral infarction deaths (as entered on death certificates) were monitored. RESULTS: During the follow-up period, 60 deaths were attributed to cerebral infarction. A high intake of animal fat and cholesterol was significantly associated with a reduced risk of cerebral infarction death. The risk was reduced by 62% (CI, 82% to 18%) for those in the third tertile of animal fat intake, compared with those in the first tertile, with a significant linear dose-response relationship (P=0.0073). The risk of death from infarction was reduced by 63% (CI, 82% to 22%) in the high cholesterol consumption group, compared with the low consumption group. A significant linear dose-response relationship was observed. Animal protein was not significantly associated with infarction mortality after adjustment for animal fat and cholesterol. CONCLUSIONS: This study suggests that in Japan, where animal product intake is lower than in Western countries, a high consumption of animal fat and cholesterol was associated with a reduced risk of cerebral infarction death.

PMID: 15166397 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Also don't forget, the country with the second highest lifespan is Iceland. The traditional diet of Iceland is also very high in animal protein and fat.

Traditional Icelandic food is not particularly palatable to mainstream European tastes. Pickled ram?s testicles, decomposed shark meat, cooked sheep?s head and slatur, a type of sheep intestine haggis, are some of the dishes you want to seek out or avoid. Luckily, the mainstays of the Icelandic diet are simpler: marinated herring, fresh salmon, dried fish, smoked lamb and curd, as well as whale and seal meat. Greenhouse-grown vegetables are common and of good quality. Vegetarians will find Iceland difficult, though Reykjavik has an increasing number of modern and ethnic eateries.
http://travel.guardi...,420714,00.html


The country, with the third highest average lifespan is Spain. Here's a quote from the "Protein Power Lifeplan":

When a group of scientists evaluated the changing dietary patterns in Spain over the past twenty-five years, they found that the consumption of bread decreased, the consumption of fruits and vegetables decreased, and the consumption of even olive oil decreased.9 Over the same time, Spaniards increased their consumption of dairy products and meat of all kinds. In other words the diet of the average Spaniard-at least by our misguided modern nutritional standards-degenerated; he ate more high-fat foods of animal origin, while at the same time low-fat, highcarbohydrate foods went lacking. According to the prevailing pyramid paradigm of what good nutrition is (again, misguided in our opinion), people throughout Spain should be dropping like flies from cardiovascular disease. What the researchers found, however, was that the rates of death from heart disease declined dramatically over this period. Since this didn't fit with what the researchers expected to find, they as all good researchers do, tried to find some way to reconcile their data with what they "knew" to be true. They reckoned that perhaps some isolated areas in Spain contained unenlightened people who ate a lot of meat, fat, and dairy products, fouling up the statistics for the rest of the country. And when they did evaluate consumption on a region-by region basis they found exactly that, but, unfortunately for their hypothesis, the high-meat-eating regions had the greatest declines in the rates of death from heart disease. In their words, "it is also paradoxical that regions demonstrating the highest increases in fat intake displayed the lowest rates of CHD [coronary heart diseasel mortality]."

Edited by zarathustra, 07 August 2006 - 10:00 PM.


#26 pwk11

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 01:17 AM

And "thus spoke zarathustra".
Nice Post.

Edited by pwk11, 08 August 2006 - 06:29 AM.


#27 doug123

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 08:21 AM

And "thus spoke zarathustra".
Nice Post.


What a dude! [thumb]

#28 kenj

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 07:09 PM

Surely the icelanders and spaniards do not eat bucketloads of refined sugar, which I do think is one critical factor in a short and sick life, -
that they DO eat alot of animal protein and fat is, despite their longer lifespan, - not the *optimal* diet still. And the okinawans eat animal protein and fat, but not in excess.

A given total calorie intake for me would have to be packed with cancer-protecting phytonutrients and here, a broad range of vegetables is simply the best choice I can offer myself. Certainly not an excess of animal fat and protein.

#29 xanadu

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 07:38 PM

pwk11 wrote:

" What I also find interesting is as long as I keep my carbs low,under 50 grams a day,I`m good. When I "slip" and ingest more,it sets up a snowball effect and I continually want more and more carbs.I am a recovering alcoholic 10 years sober and the craving and emotional cycle is exactly the same,only on a smaller scale.I get fearful and feel i MUST have it.Booze is after all sugar. It makes me wonder how much of a part this has to play in alcoholism. paul "

Very true! Carbs are killers if taken in excess. Meat is not good though a little fish is OK.

#30 zarathustra

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 10:49 PM

Meat is not good though a little fish is OK


Can you explain why fish is better than meat? Because it contains less saturated fat? Come on, you gotta be kiddin' if you still belief in this myth. No study has ever shown, that replacing white meat for red meat brings any advantages. The correlation between colorectal cancer and red meat is also not proven! It's another myth, that can easily be exposed.

Red meat is one of the most complete foods that exists. Believe it or not, there are people who have lived from nothing but fatty meat for years without adverse health consequences.

Read this article. What you will learn, will shock you:

http://www.biblelife...stefansson1.htm




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