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Living forever can mean suffering forever?

living forever suffering

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#1 Galaxyshock

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 03:24 PM


That's what kinda keeps me hesitant towards therapies that would dramatically increase lifespan. I know healthspan and lifespan are supposed to go hand-in-hand, but given the nature of human life that involves stress, worries and ravages of the old age, I can't help but think that perhaps in some cases it only leads to extended suffering. I mean some people resort of euthanasia to end their misery and see death as a relief. Perhaps I'm not particularly well educated in the topic though and have become overly pessimistic. So feel free to enlighten me.  ;)



#2 adamh

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 08:07 PM

Physical suffering would have to be cured if life is going to be extended. Mental problems might continue.



#3 Galaxyshock

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 05:18 AM

Physical suffering would have to be cured if life is going to be extended. Mental problems might continue.

 

I agree, we don't want immortality to turn into a curse instead of blessing. New mental problems may also appear from going to very advanced age and the information overload to the brain. We already have things like dementia to be resolved, which kinda signals evolution hasn't yet "allowed" us to age without difficult challenges. Maybe my worries are a bit far-fetched though, I'll need to have closer look into life-extension and aging theories. So far I've been mostly about biohacking and improvement of brain health and life quality, but like all of us I age too.  :-D


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#4 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 06:41 PM

Even if the reasons for suffering are not defeated yet, you will have all of the time in the world to wait and/or to work for the reasons for your suffering to be defeated by the science. So... you will not be suffering at the long last.


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#5 Galaxyshock

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 04:49 AM

Even if the reasons for suffering are not defeated yet, you will have all of the time in the world to wait and/or to work for the reasons for your suffering to be defeated by the science. So... you will not be suffering at the long last.

 

Good point. I've just had some dystopic scenarios in mind, like someone being kept alive against their will and tortured extensively. And assuming life-extension happens first before eventual immortality, perhaps someone with disabling condition decides to suffer in hopes of a cure in the future and is given some extra years by life-extending therapies but only ends up suffering more and then die. Could be that these scenarios are a bit "out there" but I think there can be certain kind of a dark side to unlimited lifespans.



#6 Galaxyshock

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Posted 17 March 2024 - 05:08 PM

The opposite path would be permanent bliss and pleasure, which we would all like to see, but is humanity ready for that? It does sound like a dream our primitive brain would try to wake up from. A lot of things need to happen first, in the understanding of human consciousness.



#7 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 17 March 2024 - 05:47 PM

What do you think, that the humanity is ready for? Permanent sorrow  and suffering?

 

Why do you think, that the humanity is not ready for that? What disturbs you?


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#8 Galaxyshock

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Posted 18 March 2024 - 02:26 AM

What do you think, that the humanity is ready for? Permanent sorrow  and suffering?

 

Why do you think, that the humanity is not ready for that? What disturbs you?

 

I think that certain level of pain, suffering and resultant numbness is the human's comfort zone. There's a nature of never satisfied hunger in this existence, always wanting more. Buddhism is one of the answers to this. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, I'll have to think more about these things, you did raise good questions.  :)



#9 adamh

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Posted 24 March 2024 - 10:42 PM

Permanent bliss and pleasure would lead to insanity, I believe. There are drugs that can do this but they stop working after a relatively short while. The brain does not accept that. Rats that had an implant that stimulated the pleasure center of the brain pushed the button that gave the electric dose constantly. They would stop eating and drinking, they pressed the button until they died. Samadhi is supposed to be a spiritual state of bliss, I doubt its like the rats pushing the button

 

 

 

 

 

 



#10 Galaxyshock

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 05:52 AM

Permanent bliss and pleasure would lead to insanity, I believe. There are drugs that can do this but they stop working after a relatively short while. The brain does not accept that. Rats that had an implant that stimulated the pleasure center of the brain pushed the button that gave the electric dose constantly. They would stop eating and drinking, they pressed the button until they died. Samadhi is supposed to be a spiritual state of bliss, I doubt its like the rats pushing the button

 

I agree. Rats in closed environment get addicted to pretty much anything, but in the rat park "heaven" experiment they may try the drug/whatever pleasurable but don't get addicted. I wonder if virtual reality has some benefits to negatives of isolation, or would it just turn into another escapistic addiction. Even to the point the subject would start rejecting reality.

 

It's interesting the brain activity of advanced meditators temporarily look similar to braindead's.



#11 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 07:27 AM

For those, who think, that the "permanent bliss and pleasure would lead to insanity" I recommend a book, which I have cited in this topic in post 4:

https://www.longecit...-the-abandoned/

It postulates very simmilar thing - if you don't work and simply be left to float on the stream, this leads to insanity. Unfortunately it is rare, old, long time abandoned, and is in Bulgarian language.

 

My opinion is that if you deal with nobel things and mainly physical and mental training, and ofcourse if you have no predispositions to psychiatric diseases, you will jump over the pit, and you will not develope insanity. Nobel leasure activities may include books reading, learning something new, etc.

 


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#12 Galaxyshock

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 07:45 AM

For those, who think, that the "permanent bliss and pleasure would lead to insanity" I recommend a book, which I have cited in this topic in post 4:

https://www.longecit...-the-abandoned/

It postulates very simmilar thing - if you don't work and simply be left to float on the stream, this leads to insanity. Unfortunately it is rare, old, long time abandoned, and is in Bulgarian language.

 

My opinion is that if you deal with nobel things and mainly physical and mental training, and ofcourse if you have no predispositions to psychiatric diseases, you will jump over the pit, and you will not develope insanity. Nobel leasure activities may include books reading, learning something new, etc.

 

Yeah I have a fear that like you said "if you don't work and simply be left to float on the stream" would lead to fall into some kind of limbo where the person is good for nothing and riding the high of their own brain chemistry until it runs out or goes psychotic or something.

 

I don't speak Bulgarian but I'm definitely interested in that kind of books.

 

I find it hard to get myself to do physical training etc. if I feel blissful, but I guess it's more a matter of discipline.  ;)



#13 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 09:41 AM

Yup. a self-discipline. It is something, that I have to increase either. A nice way to start is bicycle or veloergometer and legally free courses in internet for mental training.

An example for a free course:

Preventing dementia from the University of Tazmania

https://mooc.utas.edu.au/

 


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#14 adamh

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Posted 07 June 2024 - 10:55 PM

It seems like virtual reality would be much different than being in a zombie state from pressing a button to give a jolt to the brain. That is simply forcing the brain to pump out chemicals to make you feel good. VR would be an actual experience, you could read a book in vr, you could explore distant places and it might seem like you are flying through the clouds or swimming underwater

 

They have some vr headsets out there. One is about $2500 I think or it might be more. I read the reviews and they are getting closer to what I want but I have not jumped in yet. Maybe when the version 2.0 comes out


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#15 Galaxyshock

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Posted 08 June 2024 - 04:28 AM

Virtual reality could definitely offer a wide range of versatile stimulus to the person, definitely better than pressing a button or taking some drug to feel good. But still, would the social interaction in virtual reality replace real life contact, meaning increased levels of oxytocin etc.? The true punishment in prison sentences, a form of forced isolation, is taking away your freedom. Would virtual reality allow enough freedom to escape from the negatives of isolation? I think at the moment not, since you can't really do everything in virtual reality like have an actual sexual intercourse. But things might change in the future, it's a bit wierd to think about.  :-D







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