15 replies to this topic

[Galaxyshock]

I've been playing with this idea a bit. Fear of death is obviously the most primal thing that drives us away from danger and pain. But if this fear is given enough room it can become rather pathological thing in human psyche and lead to erratic behaviors. Most in the western world live in sort of a "one life trance" meaning people compulsively seek peak experiences and buy expensive stuff that they think is (or rather they're told to) required to fully experience life. And the thought of losing it all in death scares the hell out of them so they reject the thought and turn into "getting more life" with more hedonic pursuits, workaholism, drugs etc. to make the thought go away. Many world leaders are at an old age already and idea the inevitable death that is getting closer probably contributes to their pursuits of rejuvenations through any means possible like Putin and Xi discussing organ transplants and such.

 

As longevity enthusiasts we of course share this fear and look into remedies to extend our lives to maximum. But I feel that when it is fear-driven the means to longevity can become rather collectively destructive. I see a scenario of life extension becoming a zero sum game where someone's extended lifetime is taking something away from others. Then again robotics, transhumanism and such do seem to give the possiblity of taking the collective step to eventual immortality without "stealing from others".

 

Kappa-opioid network is the main driver of fear signaling in the brain. I notice by taking larger doses of Naltrexone that antagonizes all opioid receptors a marked reduce in all fears including that of death. This along with meditation has strangely given such strong effect that I feel really peaceful at night time and wouldn't even mind if I never wake up once I go to sleep. Not saying my life is depressing or something to have this sort of escapistic thought, but I feel like I have come into terms of death as more of a neutral thing than endless darkness or something which is an idea that easily comes into mind. Death = nothing, and when you think about nothing, you make it "something".

 

I've also had a couple of psychotic episodes that have collapsed my reality and thrown me into utopian and dystopian type of existances where time-space continuum seem to take new turns. It's quite hard to describe the experiences and I'm not going to babble about them more now, but those episodes have humbled me and my world view so that perhaps this life I am currently living is not the first or last one. This has lead me to lose the somewhat egoistic "one life ideology" and driven me to at least leave a net positive impact on the world around me by helping others.

 

Some heavy Ketamine users report with continous "visits" to the K-hole that mortal, human fears like that of death can start decreasing as they return to this reality. The NMDA-receptor network seems to be the key to attaching our consciousness to reality and it's mortal challenges. It seems repeated dissociative experiences can make the brain forget some of the initial primal programming that drives us. Quantum physics kinda indicate that subjective death doesn't necessarily even exist but I need to have closer look into it.

 

What are your thoughts of all this, is the fear of death more of an evolutionary drag that we should start slowly getting rid of as technologies and rejuvenation therapies slowly get more advanced and perhaps the longevity escape velocity is at some point reached? Does it require the society be utopian-like where the life threatening dangers are no longer present or is it something that we should start thinking about and implementing now?

[Mind]

James Strole says something similar here: 

[Galaxyshock]

Interesting video, yeah he does seem to have similar mentality. Perhaps indeed there's much more potential to conscious engineering the human body to work on higher homeostasis. I do think of the brain as a biocomputer and the mind as the silent operator of it. Rewiring the opioid system is where it all starts and I believe if humans as collection of conscious beings manage to get rid of those infantile fears of abandonment and the unknowness of death, we can start living much more pleasant and longer lives in harmony. Interestingly the opioid antagonist medication Naltrexone I mentioned also shows strong anti-cancer potential through blocking the opioid growth factor–receptor axis and studies indicate that low-dose-Naltrexone possibly extends both healthspan and lifespan. Not saying this medication is the holy grail or something, but possibly a very valuable tool.

[Dorian Grey]

I worked in healthcare for 35 years, & one of the most terrifying things I witnessed were terminal patients willing to try anything to stay alive just one more month.  

 

A lot of it is often families, who feel they need to prove their love for a parent/grandparent by urging them to "fight on" to an end that is often very bitter indeed.  Then, they like to say that death was a blessing, as their loved one was suffering so much.  Yep...  Because you insisted they go through this for you!  

 

I recall my 94 year old grandmother's death.  She was doing OK living at home with her granddaughter, but had a fall, & broke her dominant arm.  Doctors said she wouldn't survive the surgery to fix it as it had shattered like an egg shell.  They put it in a sling and said it would scar down into a little flipper-like thing, and she'd just have to use her other arm.  They did give her opioid pain meds, though, and plenty of them, as this was back in the days before opioids were frowned upon.  

 

My sister soon called, and said she was just sipping water and pain pills, and wasn't eating anything at all.  Wanted to know if she should send her to assisted living.  I said no, she's doing exactly what she wants, and that is to end a good life with a good death.  I reminded her of Star Trek, and the Klingons, who often spoke of the importance of a good death.  For them, it was death in battle, but for you & I, I would expect a good death to occur at home, feeling comfortably numb and floating off on an opioid cloud.  

 

I also recall euthanizing a cat I'd had for many years.  I paid extra for a home visit euthanasia, & turns out I had to help by holding the cat while the vet snuck up behind and gave a jab of sedative to snow the cat while she started an IV to administer the big guns medicine to stop the heart.  All went well, but within seconds of getting the jab, the cat began to purr quite loudly.  I about burst into tears when the vet said: "Oh yeah...  They do that".  Purr while being euthanized?  YEP.  The vet said she thought they did it to comfort themselves, but really didn't know.  

 

As I approach my 70th birthday, I'm at peace with dying, though I'd really rather not suffer, and I definitely won't be going through any Hail Mary chemo or surgeries to try and eek out an extra few months if misery.  In fact, my experience with the cat has me interested in MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying), which is legal in the state of California, where I live.  

 

I remember during COVID, pondering whether or not I'd want to go to the hospital and get put on a vent, or die peacefully at home.  Wound up getting hydroxychloroquine so I didn't need to go to the hospital when I got COVID; but this certainly cleared my head on how I'd like my life to end.  

 

I have a living will filed with my medical provider, and am NO CODE if I have a heart attack.  My wife is a Registered Nurse, so it took a bit of convincing to get her to believe I truly wanted this, and would be quite upset to come around to find her bouncing on my breastbone doing CPR, only to languish in an ICU with a massive stroke.  

 

Almost more than anything else at this point, I'd like a good death, whether like my grandmother, or even the kitty.  Avoiding the Medical Industrial Complex is key, unless they happen to have a good MAID program, and you qualify for it.  In California, you must have a terminal illness, with a prognosis of 6 months or less to live without MAID.  

 

Best of Luck to you all when the time comes.  When in doubt...  Choose peace!  Not war!  

[YoungSchizo]

I feel like my life is just starting at the age of 41 with the courtcases I'm involved in. 2 wins and I'm a millionaire even though I fictively shot a bullet through my head a million times in my fantasy ever getting schizophrenic at the age of end 20.

 

I'm still looking for quality of life, not quantity. If I ever get terminal illness I will end my life by euthanesia since it's legal in the Netherlands, and if I have the money for it I would go for cryonics of the whole body instead of just the head/brain. 

 

I doubt however the human race will exist within 100 years by their own ignorance unless they manage to colonize other planets/moons. Traveling to another star with planets is a waste of time since they have to turn a living body/mind into light and reverse it to space-travel to the nearest earth like planet.

 

I however still doubt the death is the end of one's spirit in a infinite universe.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 21 September 2025 - 06:07 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I agree the dying process may often feel more scary than the death itself. Isn't "First, do no harm" kinda in the oath of healthcare practitioners and I would apply it so that to prolong suffering would equal to doing harm. Then again the situation is often not unambiguous in the case of terminal illness with all kinds of experimental treatments out there and surely with strong painkillers and tranquilizers the patient can usually be made feel comfortable. But if the terminally ill truely wants to end it, it shouldn't require other's approval.

 

One of my earliest memories from childhood is the thought of some day dying and never living again, which was very scary at the time. Perhaps that has driven me to seek things that would make it less likely to happen or even falsifying the thought itself. I turned 34 this year and do hope to live a full life. I feel that perhaps coming in terms with death is part of self actualization so that the death itself doesn't come as some sort of final humiliation to a life that wasn't really lived. But it shouldn't be anybody else's idle opinion how to live your life.

 

Tweaking the brain chemistry a bit to make death feel less scary may sound a bit shady, but the idea isn't to turn into some kind of sociopathic denial of it but rather to change the perspective and make the bogeyman of death appear something to remind you to take this opportunity of life seriously so the decrease in fear-drive gives more room for life-drive if that makes sense. Besides modulating the opioid network with kappa-opioid receptor antagonists (or agonists if you like to dig deeper to the fear with Salvia or something), psychedelic drugs are probably a great way for that perspective and finding peace in the inevitable.

 

I think the same way @YoungSchizo, in an infinite time and space, everything that is possible happens and maaany many times. So respect this life but also don't count out the possibility that at somewhere in time you are given a new opportunity to shine 

[Dorian Grey]

I've always been fascinated with religion, and how every culture & country seems to have had a substantial need to create and maintain some sort of religious belief.  It may be the primary purpose is to help deal with the psychology of death, and whether it is permanent, or perhaps might simply be a transition to another dimension?  

 

I was raised Christian, but haven't been a regular at church in half a century.  Funny though, I still know right from wrong, and when tempted to do wrong, feel I'm not really getting away with anything.  I like the Hindu/Buddhist concept of Karma, and the concept of past and future lives is also intriguing.  

 

I try to be a realist when it comes to death.  Perhaps I'll be born again, or transition to a different existence?  Perhaps there is nothing, and that's OK too.  I know I'm not going to have any regrets, regardless.  I've been a good person throughout my life and deserve salvation if there is any such thing.  I also believe there is a God, and the universe and all it contains didn't just happen.  

 

Science likes to think humans evolved from algae, but if you think about it, how could a human eye, fluid filled, light sensitive, with a lens controlled by muscles possibly have evolved through random selection?  This just doesn't fly in my book.  

 

Don't know if my religion is what has prepared me for death, but I am ready.  Like a Klingon though, I want to have a good death.  Heart disease & cancer are what kills most of us who make it to our 7th decade, and I'll choose heart disease over cancer any old day.  The trick is...  Not to fight it.  I'm doing all I can to avoid and delay it, but when it comes, please don't initiate extraordinary measures to prolong things, as this is how most bitter ends occur.  

[Mind]

  

 

Science likes to think humans evolved from algae, but if you think about it, how could a human eye, fluid filled, light sensitive, with a lens controlled by muscles possibly have evolved through random selection?  This just doesn't fly in my book.  

 

 

 

I always find it interesting that atheist scientists scoff at the idea that God created the universe in an instant, but then they go on to say that the universe was created in an instant in the "big bang". Lol.

 

This is a good topic, but I would suggest to be aware of how your body and brain changes as you age. Hardly anyone in their 20s ponders very long about a "good death", or MAID, or the afterlife. Not only because of sociological factors (single, got your whole life ahead of you, going to change the world), but also because of physiological factors. When we are younger, we sleep better, wake up with more energy, think more clearly, etc., because our bodies and brains have not accumulated too much of the damage of aging.

 

When we get older, the days become tougher to endure because of various ailments and aging in general. Our brains slow down and we can't remember as much. Experiencing "normal" aging makes us reflective as we get closer to death. We become numb to life because our bodies are breaking down.

 

The key to finding solutions to aging is remembering how vital and hopeful you were when you were younger. Cling to those memories. Reversing aging will likely bring back some of the vigor of youth. Your brain will be clear again and you will wonder how you ever got into a mindset of accepting death at such an early age, like 70, 80, 90.

 

Otherwise, yes, with the current health system, it is frightening to consider "terminal" illness. The US system puts you on a bunch of expensive drugs that don't cure anything, just long enough to drain your bank account (or the taxpayers bank accounts), so that you are destitute and in suffering at the very end.

[Galaxyshock]

My angle of approach to different religions is that of positive curiosity: how do they explain the phenomenon of life and death, and where does everything come from according to their principles. Any kind of fanaticism-fundamentalism is usually when things go wrong and the religion then ends up doing more harm than good, but that's often really the individual's fault of taking things to extreme. Science is based on observing and measuring, but quantum physics reveal that the act of observation changes the system that is observed, so how could science ever end up with some kind of final truth? Perhaps that which is hidden remains hidden, and it's like trying to find darkness using a light, to seek some kind of all-explainatory discovery. Not saying we shouldn't try to understand what is happening, everyone should, but a lot of the answers may very well be coded within.

 

The collective DNA carries the memory of two world wars, yet we keep starting new wars where price of human life seems to be very low to some dictators. We should overcome the rather primal territorial brain circuits for humanity's sake and to keep this planet livable, otherwise there is not much point for unlimited lifespans as that could just become extended suffering or the efforts get ruined because of some idiotic war conflict.

[YoungSchizo]

I vote for first getting rid of gravity, I'm 41 and slowely it draging my body down. I'm already short and the older and shorter I get the more it's pulling me into the ground.   

[Galaxyshock]

I vote for first getting rid of gravity, I'm 41 and slowely it draging my body down. I'm already short and the older and shorter I get the more it's pulling me into the ground.   

 

Hehe, the speculated graviton molecule is yet to be found, at least until then I don't see us levitating  . Being short/small isn't exactly bad attribute when it comes to longevity, aren't/weren't many supercentenaries rather small in size like Jeanne Calment was only 150 cm.

 

But yeah it will probably take a long time before humanity is at a phase where wars are no longer started. Maybe it needs some intervention like AI taking over, but hell that could just mean different types of conflicts. Some consider dying in a war some kind of heroic achievement, but perhaps that's just fuel to the flames.

 

I used to think of cryonics as rather desperate attempt to hang on to a biological life with all kinds of scifi scenarios, but I'm now starting to see it more of a deep respect for the opportunity to live as human and of course even a small chance of getting revived is better than no chance at all. Surely it also decreases the background fear of never living again, and the decreased stress from that is pro-longevity itself hehe  .

[High_Probability]

Atheist scientists are rather scoffing at the idea that God created the planets, stars and everything within the universe in an instant (as opposed to the idea that these things formed over billions of years).

I always find it interesting that atheist scientists scoff at the idea that God created the universe in an instant, but then they go on to say that the universe was created in an instant in the "big bang". Lol.

This is a good topic, but I would suggest to be aware of how your body and brain changes as you age. Hardly anyone in their 20s ponders very long about a "good death", or MAID, or the afterlife. Not only because of sociological factors (single, got your whole life ahead of you, going to change the world), but also because of physiological factors. When we are younger, we sleep better, wake up with more energy, think more clearly, etc., because our bodies and brains have not accumulated too much of the damage of aging.

When we get older, the days become tougher to endure because of various ailments and aging in general. Our brains slow down and we can't remember as much. Experiencing "normal" aging makes us reflective as we get closer to death. We become numb to life because our bodies are breaking down.

The key to finding solutions to aging is remembering how vital and hopeful you were when you were younger. Cling to those memories. Reversing aging will likely bring back some of the vigor of youth. Your brain will be clear again and you will wonder how you ever got into a mindset of accepting death at such an early age, like 70, 80, 90.

Otherwise, yes, with the current health system, it is frightening to consider "terminal" illness. The US system puts you on a bunch of expensive drugs that don't cure anything, just long enough to drain your bank account (or the taxpayers bank accounts), so that you are destitute and in suffering at the very end.

Edited by High_Probability, 09 October 2025 - 09:21 PM.

[Mind]

Atheist scientists are rather scoffing at the idea that God created the planets, stars and everything within the universe in an instant (as opposed to the idea that these things formed over billions of years).
 

 

Minor nuance. God could have created the "big bang" and everything evolved from that point, or the universe could have mysteriously and randomly started in an instant and then evolved. Recall, the bible claims that 1 day is like a thousand years to "God".

[YoungSchizo]

Minor nuance. God could have created the "big bang" and everything evolved from that point, or the universe could have mysteriously and randomly started in an instant and then evolved. Recall, the bible claims that 1 day is like a thousand years to "God".

 

False, the Earth is only 6000 years old. Dinosaur fossils are put there by God to make us believe we exist much longer. It's all a conspiracy.   

[YoungSchizo]

On the serious side: There's an article in the newspaper that the James Webb telescope might have mysterious clues the whole universe is in a black hole. Try wrapping your minds on that! 

[Galaxyshock]

Only black hole I've encountered is my wallet 

 

One way to get rid of a fear is to ridicule it. Laughter seems to activate delta-opioid receptors and allow us to devalue fearful experiences. Humor is perhaps a weapon in anti-aging arsenal this way 

Edited by Galaxyshock, Today, 05:17 AM.