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Pills and pills go round and round


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#1 kottke

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 07:13 AM


Well its that time again when somebody has the bright idea of creating a new stack using the knowledge they've gained over the years to certainly insure they know what they're talking about. [wis]

So the stack goes like this:

Per day-

Random probiotic at whatever x amount

Modafanil (Provigil) 200mgs x 1

Tianeptine (Stablon) 12.5mgs x 3

GPC Choline (AOR) 250mgs x 2

Relentless Improvement Premium Piracetam 800mgs x 4 (3200mgs)

Seal Oil (Terra Nova Brand) 500mgs x 4

Vitamin C 3grams

Milk Thistle (Bluebonnet-though i will probably switch) 175mgs x 3

NAC (Twinlab for now) 600mgs x 1

Tumeric/Curcumin (Vitamin World) 450mg root + 50mg Extract? x 1

No chosen B-Complex

No chosent Daily Vitamin

SLEEP~

Ashwagandha (Sensoril) 225mgs x 1

Magnesium (Natures Plus) 200mgs x 1


----Possible Adjuncts - Royal Jelly, Sprulina, DGL, Mixedd Vitamin E, Melatonin


I am trying to acheive cognitive enhancement and "brain restoration"

If i anyone sees any sort of contradictions or has some advice on my stack please let me know. Ive studied all of these compounds thuroughly and have found little interaction possibilities bewteen them. Some possible ones however are: Tianeptine-seal/fish oil due to beta oxidization, Tianeptine-Modafanil, Tianeptine-Ashwagandha.

Im also ordering the prescription drugs from www.indianmeds4u.com which ive heard very good things about. You can even see reviews on www.drugbuyers.com. If someone thinks otherwise give me the heads up. Sweet.....

#2 sentrysnipe

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 07:22 AM

Change your Milk Thistle to Silybin Phytosome
http://www.iherb.com...VU0M6kOyjyMo0xw

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#3 doug123

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:35 AM


Modafanil (Provigil) 200mgs x 1

Tianeptine (Stablon) 12.5mgs x 3


GPC Choline (AOR) 250mgs x 2

Relentless Improvement Premium Piracetam 800mgs x 4 (3200mgs)

Seal Oil (Terra Nova Brand) 500mgs x 4

Vitamin C 3grams

Milk Thistle (Bluebonnet-though i will probably switch) 175mgs x 3

NAC (Twinlab for now) 600mgs x 1

Tumeric/Curcumin (Vitamin World) 450mg root + 50mg Extract? x 1

No chosen B-Complex

No chosent Daily Vitamin

SLEEP~

Ashwagandha (Sensoril) 225mgs x 1

Magnesium (Natures Plus) 200mgs x 1


Uh...a couple of the elements in that "mix" of pills might have (un(known interactions and possible deleterious side effects. Have you tried seeing a Psychiatrist yet since this topic? I bet with the help of a qualified physician you could simply some of the prescription drugs and find one that you really like and possibly cut all of them out if you eat a healthy diet and excercise! Oh well, maybe keep the modafinil. It appears to be safe....

Do you exercise? I would suggest at least try jogging a couple of miles on a treadmill or around your neighborhood every day for a while to get some possilbe neurogenesis effects. Get a little bit of healthy muscle mass (not all crazied out though) and you'll have to fight the ladies off!

(ALL are peer reviews, BTW)..

J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2006 Mar;31(2):84-92.

Antidepressant effects of exercise: evidence for an adult-neurogenesis hypothesis?

        * Ernst C,
        * Olson AK,
        * Pinel JP,
        * Lam RW,
        * Christie BR.

Neuroscience Program, UBC Hospital, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC.

It has been hypothesized that a decrease in the synthesis of new neurons in the adult hippocampus might be linked to major depressive disorder (MDD). This hypothesis arose after it was discovered that antidepressant medications increased the synthesis of new neurons in the brain, and it was noted that the therapeutic effects of antidepressants occurred over a time span that approximates the time taken for the new neurons to become functional. Like antidepressants, exercise also increases the synthesis of new neurons in the adult brain: a 2-3-fold increase in hippocampal neurogenesis has been observed in rats with regular access to a running wheel when they are compared with control animals. We hypothesized, based on the adult-neurogenesis hypothesis of MDD, that exercise should alleviate the symptoms of MDD and that potential mechanisms should exist to explain this therapeutic effect. Accordingly, we evaluated studies that suggest that exercise is an effective treatment for MDD, and we explored potential mechanisms that could link adult neurogenesis, exercise and MDD. We conclude that there is evidence to support the hypothesis that exercise alleviates MDD and that several mechanisms exist that could mediate this effect through adult neurogenesis.

PMID: 16575423 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Curr Alzheimer Res. 2006 Feb;3(1):49-54.

Environment, physical activity, and neurogenesis: implications for prevention and treatment of Alzhemier's disease.

* Briones TL.

Department of Medical-Surgical Nursing, University of Illinois, Chicago, IL 60612, USA. tbriones@uic.edu

Age is the biggest risk factor for the development of neurodegenerative diseases. Consequently, as the population ages it becomes more critical to find ways to avoid the debilitating cost of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's. Some of the non-invasive strategies that can potentially slow down the mental decline associated with aging are exercise and use of multi-sensory environmental stimulation. The beneficial effects of both exercise and multi-sensory environmental stimulation have been well-documented, thus it is possible that these strategies can either provide neuroprotection or increase resistance to the development of age-related cognitive problems.

PMID: 16472203 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Neurobiol Aging. 2002 Sep-Oct;23(5):941-55

Exercise, experience and the aging brain.

        * Churchill JD,
        * Galvez R,
        * Colcombe S,
        * Swain RA,
        * Kramer AF,
        * Greenough WT.

Beckman Institute, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 405 N Mathews, Urbana, IL 61801, USA.

While limited research is available, evidence indicates that physical and mental activity influence the aging process. Human data show that executive functions of the type associated with frontal lobe and hippocampal regions of the brain may be selectively maintained or enhanced in humans with higher levels of fitness. Similarly enhanced performance is observed in aged animals exposed to elevated physical and mental demand and it appears that the vascular component of the brain response may be driven by physical activity whereas the neuronal component may reflect learning. Recent results have implicated neurogenesis, at least in the hippocampus, as a component of the brain response to exercise, with learning enhancing survival of these neurons. Non-neuronal tissues also respond to experience in the mature brain, indicating that the brain reflects both its recent and its longer history of experience. Preliminary measures of brain function hold promise of increased interaction between human and animal researchers and a better understanding of the substrates of experience effects on behavioral performance in aging. Copyright 2002 Elsevier Science Inc.

PMID: 12392797 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Trends Neurosci. 2002 Jun;25(6):295-301
Exercise: a behavioral intervention to enhance brain health and plasticity.

    * Cotman CW,
    * Berchtold NC.

Institute for Brain Aging and Dementia, Department of Neurobiology and Behavior, University of California, Irvine, CA 92697-4540, USA. cwcotman@uci.edu

Extensive research on humans suggests that exercise could have benefits for overall health and cognitive function, particularly in later life. Recent studies using animal models have been directed towards understanding the neurobiological bases of these benefits. It is now clear that voluntary exercise can increase levels of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and other growth factors, stimulate neurogenesis, increase resistance to brain insult and improve learning and mental performance. Recently, high-density oligonucleotide microarray analysis has demonstrated that, in addition to increasing levels of BDNF, exercise mobilizes gene expression profiles that would be predicted to benefit brain plasticity processes. Thus, exercise could provide a simple means to maintain brain function and promote brain plasticity.

PMID: 12086747 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Brain Res. 2000 Dec 15;886(1-2):47-53

Neuroprotective signaling and the aging brain: take away my food and let me run.


* Mattson MP.

Laboratory of Neurosciences, National Institute on Aging Gerontology Research Center, 5600 Nathan Shock Drive, 21224-6825, Baltimore, MD, USA. mattsonm@grc.nia.nih.gov

It is remarkable that neurons are able to survive and function for a century or more in many persons that age successfully. A better understanding of the molecular signaling mechanisms that permit such cell survival and synaptic plasticity may therefore lead to the development of new preventative and therapeutic strategies for age-related neurodegenerative disorders. We all know that overeating and lack of exercise are risk factors for many different age-related diseases including cardiovascular disease, diabetes and cancers. Our recent studies have shown that dietary restriction (reduced calorie intake) can increase the resistance of neurons in the brain to dysfunction and death in experimental models of Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease and stroke. The mechanism underlying the beneficial effects of dietary restriction involves stimulation of the expression of 'stress proteins' and neurotrophic factors. The neurotrophic factors induced by dietary restriction may protect neurons by inducing the production of proteins that suppress oxyradical production, stabilize cellular calcium homeostasis and inhibit apoptotic biochemical cascades. Interestingly, dietary restriction also increases numbers of newly-generated neural cells in the adult brain suggesting that this dietary manipulation can increase the brain's capacity for plasticity and self-repair. Work in other laboratories suggests that physical and intellectual activity can similarly increase neurotrophic factor production and neurogenesis. Collectively, the available data suggest the that dietary restriction, and physical and mental activity, may reduce both the incidence and severity of neurodegenerative disorders in humans. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms underlying these effects of diet and behavior on the brain is also leading to novel therapeutic agents that mimick the beneficial effects of dietary restriction and exercise.

PMID: 11119686 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Prog Neurobiol. 2004 Feb;72(3):167-82
Recovery from brain injury in animals: relative efficacy of environmental enrichment, physical exercise or formal training (1990-2002).

        * Will B,
        * Galani R,
        * Kelche C,
        * Rosenzweig MR.

Laboratoire de Neurosciences Comportementales et Cognitives, Institut Federatif des Neurosciences, Universite Louis Pasteur, UMR 7521, CNRS, Strasbourg, France. bruno.will@psycho-ulp.u-strasbg.fr

In the 1960s, it was shown for the first time that enriched housing enhances functional recovery after brain damage. During the 1970s and 1980s, many findings similar to this initial one have been reported, enlarging greatly its generality. Over the last 13 years, many different kinds of brain damage were modelled in animals or even directly studied in humans. Overall, these recent studies corroborated earlier findings, although occasional exceptions were reported. Other critical data, obtained mainly in intact animals, showed that enriched housing increases neurogenesis in the adult hippocampus. Recent evidence that this neurogenesis is involved in hippocampal-dependent learning supports the original interpretation of the enrichment effects as being the result of an accumulation of informal learning experiences (e.g., [. Heredity, environment, brain biochemistry, and learning. In: Current Trends in Psychological Theory. University of Pittsburgh Press, Pittsburgh, pp. 87-110;. Brain changes in response to experience. Sci. Am. 226, 22-29]). Other components of enriched environment, such as physical exercise, may have additive effects with those of training. The comparison of the relative effectiveness of enriched experience, of physical exercise and of training on structural and/or functional assessments of recovery, shows that training/learning is generally more effective than physical exercise and that enriched experience is a more potent therapy than either of these two other treatments. The combination of enriched experience with some other neurosurgical and/or neuropharmacological treatments may further improve its therapeutic effectiveness. Finally, other recent reports emphasize that the treatment parameters may be changed in order to approximate clinical/rehabilitation conditions and, nevertheless, remain effective. Copyright 2004 Elsevier Ltd.

PMID: 15130708 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Prog Brain Res. 2000;127:35-48
Activity-dependent regulation of neuronal plasticity and self repair.

        * Kempermann G,
        * van Praag H,
        * Gage FH.

Salk Institute for Biological Studies, Laboratory of Genetics, 10010 North Torrey Pines Road, La Jolla, CA 92037, USA.

Plasticity is an essential characteristic of the brain: it is part of how the brain functions and is continuous while the brain interacts with the outer world. The state of activation and the level of activity of the entire organism affect the brain's plastic response. Brain plasticity has many substrates, ranging from synapses to neurites and entire cells. The production of new neurons is part of plasticity even in the adult and old brain, but under normal conditions neurogenesis only occurs in two privileged regions of the adult brain: hippocampus and olfactory system. At least in the hippocampus, physical activity stimulates neurogenesis by acting on the proliferation of neuronal stem cells. More specific functions such as learning may be able to recruit new neurons from the pool of cells with neurogenic potential. In a broader context neuronal stem cells can likely be found throughout the brain. Therefore, novel approaches to neuroregeneration will, when most effective, make use of the activity-related effects on neuronal stem cells in the adult brain to activate these stem cells in a targeted manner to enhance brain function.

PMID: 11142036 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Edited by nootropikamil, 25 August 2006 - 08:48 AM.


#4 ikaros

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:51 AM

Modafanil (Provigil) 200mgs x 1


How's modafinil working for you, kottke? I'm also considering to add that to my med stack. Right now I'm taking methylphenidate for my slight ADD (or whatever it is due to its changing nature), it works, but I hate the idea that I'm basically taking an amphetamine. My doc thinks otherwise, but she also thinks that the moon affects my behaviour (no seriously).

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#5 kottke

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 05:45 PM

Well ikaros i havent actually received the modafinil yet and the tianeptine should be here today. I havent actually received most of the supplements i jotted down, but will be getting a fair amount of them from my new job (health food store) tomorow or within the week. and your doctor sounds a little whacky Ha I bet your doctor was like "do you ever get that funny feeling when your out and moon is just blairing on you. It sends shivers down my spine....i think you should stay out of that moonlite cause it just aint good for nobody nohow and frankly your behavior is getting a little funny and you just need leave my office....werewolf...yea you heard me."

Adam: Im doing some daily calistinics at the moment but not actually running like i should. I think once i begin to do that i'll feel alot better. I also dont eat meat anymore only seafood and veggies.. and the phsyciatry recomendation man...i know i know what your saying man but i do not have medical insurance and i cannot see one at this time. I understand how Modafinil works and i understand how Tianeptine works (not on the molleculuar level) and i know that one or the other or both have the possibility of helping me in my condition..see you and most people on this board are at least at a "normal" level and your trying to enhance your cognition beyond the bounds...i however am not at a "normal" level and i am actually dealing with severe depression/anxiety problems and am lurking in parts of the mind that should not be lurked into.... Before i left to europe i had an MRI done and doctor showed me a large lesion on the left prefrontal cortex..so its still there from my last MRI after the accident;probbaly prolonged from heavy use of other substances. So im at the point where i need something more then natural to help my condition and that involves pharmacutical drugs.

But im not going to dirty the forums with my personal problems you can see alot of those here


Im thinking im just going to cut the Ashwagandha, and not add any of the adjuncts for a long period of time. That silymarin extract looks great and im going to get on top of that. Thank you sentysnipe. Anything else look helpful to the stack?




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