23 replies to this topic

[John Doe]

Everyone says alcohol use/abuse kills brain cells. Is this true? How bad is the effect?

I'm a law student and I do a lot of social drinking. But I would stop in a heartbeat if I knew that it was making even a slight dent in my general intelligence, which I don't expect to significantly increase until intelligence-enhancement-technologies become available in the coming decades (pills, neural implants, whatever).

So, I wanted to just confront the evidence. How much damage have I done?

[caston]

Alcohol is a group 1 carcinogen. Acetaldehyde is produced by the body to break down alcohol and can cause DNA damage in high amounts. There does appear to be lowered intellectual capacity during a hangover but the effects are temporary.

It does cross the blood brain barrier and I don't know what the long term effects of it are.

Check out:

http://en.wikipedia....hol_on_the_body

I found the following:

http://www.gurney.co...ets/effects.htm

http://www.alcohol-d.../neuropsych.htm

http://alcoholism.ab.../blus050614.htm


IMHO people that drink a lot of alcohol look physically older than people that don't.

It would be interesting to iron out a safe-drinking strategy for immortals. I like the occasional drink at social situations but I have a limited social life so I don't drink very often.

Edited by caston, 27 August 2006 - 10:06 AM.

[superpooper]

Someone posted a study on Mind and Muscle that alcohol decreases neurogenesis but most of it could be countered with antioxidants. I couldn't find the study though.

This is a good article about it's action in your brain, probably doesn't answer your question though: http://www.mindandmu...D=3&artID=99953

[stormheller]

Straight edge is the way to go.

[Shepard]

I never really understood the whole sXe thing. Wasn't it guys who didn't have the connections (friends) for illicit substances and couldn't get laid?


Kidding...

[John Schloendorn]

How much damage have I done?

Face it, you're a booby [tung]

[MichaelAnissimov]

I've been drinking on a social basis for more than six years now, and I'm just as intelligent as I've always been.

It's not occasional drinking that threatens intelligence, it's alcoholism and all the HUGE negatives that come with that (my mother was in AA for many years and there are many older alcoholics in my family). If you get drunk every night for years on end, it does eat away at your brain and your body in general.

The concerns can be social/emotional. If you are under the influence and get pissed off at someone, is it because you have a legimate issue or because you are drunk? What if you hit on a female colleague and regret it the next day, etc...

But probably the greatest threat from alcohol is the gigantic risk-associated probability spike produced by consuming alcohol and putting yourself in unsafe situations. Nearly everyone (around my age) drinks, but they're also too lazy to walk and always drive everywhere... so many people drive drunk multiple times per week. In my view, this is suicidal. People need to either A. drink no more than a couple beers in a night (not likely) or B. walk or take a cab!!!

I think that one's information diet has a heck of a lot more to do with how 'intelligent' they are than what chemicals they put in their body. 99.9% of movies and television are utter crap, and if you talk about them with people who are seriously very intelligent, they will be laughing at you on the inside.

[superpooper]

Oh yeah I forgot that they did studies the brains of alcoholics, some had brain damage and some didn't. In the cases where there was brain damage, there was usually a b-12 deficiency.

[doug123]

It seems, based on the available evidence, that chronic alcohol use might be involved in the causes of "neurodegenerative and psychiatric diseases such as drug abuse, depression, and dementia."(1)

(1)

Hippocampus. 2006;16(3):287-95.
Alcohol and adult neurogenesis: roles in neurodegeneration and recovery in chronic alcoholism.

* Nixon K.

College of Pharmacy, University of Kentucky, Lexington, Kentucky 40536, USA. Kim-nixon@uky.edu

The concept of "structural plasticity" has emerged as a potential mechanism in neurodegenerative and psychiatric diseases such as drug abuse, depression, and dementia. Chronic alcoholism is a progressive neurodegenerative disease while the person continues to abuse alcohol, though clinical and imaging studies show that some recovery may occur with abstinence. The neural plasticity observed in chronic alcoholism coupled with conflicting reports on alcohol-induced hippocampal neuropathology make this disease ripe for reconsideration in terms of the phenomenon of adult neurogenesis. This review describes opposing neurogenic processes that occur with alcohol intoxication and abstinence following alcohol dependence and how these opposing events relate to neurodegeneration and recovery from chronic alcoholism. © 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 16421863 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

There is also some other evidence that points to women having a genetic predisposition to neurotoxic effects of alcohol:

J Am Med Womens Assoc. 2004 Summer;59(3):225-7.
Do women possess a unique susceptibility to the neurotoxic effects of alcohol?

* Prendergast MA.

Department of Psychology, University of Kentucky, Lexington, USA.

Neurodegeneration and neurological impairment associated with alcohol dependence have been observed predominantly in alcohol-dependent men. Thus little research has examined the neuropathological consequences of alcoholism in women. Recent evidence obtained from both human and animal studies, however, suggests that women may well be at greater risk of alcohol-induced brain injury than men are. Further, researchers have used animal models to identify molecular events that may contribute to this putative sex difference. Such data are likely of significance in both understanding women's unique susceptibility to neurotoxic effects of alcohol and addressing the possibility that the medical management of alcoholism in women and men may require distinct approaches. As a whole, these findings clearly indicate the need for a significant expansion of both clinical and basic science research of this topic.

PMID: 15354377 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And finally, it appears the most dangerous time to ingest alcohol is during the development of the brain...and considering how many high school/college age students get "drunk," that might have some negative implications.

Apoptosis. 2000 Dec;5(6):515-21.
Ethanol-induced apoptotic neurodegeneration in the developing brain.

        * Olney JW,
        * Ishimaru MJ,
        * Bittigau P,
        * Ikonomidou C.

Department of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine, St Louis, MO 63110, USA. olneyj@psychiatry.wustl.edu

It has been known for three decades that ethanol, the most widely abused drug in the world, has deleterious effects on the developing human brain, but progress has been slow in developing animal models for studying this problem, and the underlying mechanisms have remained elusive. Recently, we have shown that during the synaptogenesis period, also known as the brain growth spurt period, ethanol has the potential to trigger massive neuronal suicide in the in vivo mammalian brain. The brain growth spurt period in humans spans the last trimester of pregnancy and first several years after birth. The NMDA antagonist and GABAmimetic properties of ethanol may be responsible for its apoptogenic action, in that other drugs with either NMDA antagonist or GABAmimetic actions also trigger apoptotic neurodegeneration in the developing brain. Our findings provide a likely explanation for the reduced brain mass and neurobehavioral disturbances associated with the human fetal alcohol syndrome. Furthermore, since NMDA antagonist and GABAmimetic drugs are sometimes abused by pregnant women and also are used as anticonvulsants, sedatives or anesthetics in pediatric medicine, our findings raise several complex drug safety issues. In addition, the observation that ethanol and several other drugs trigger massive neuronal apoptosis in the developing brain provides an unprecedented opportunity to study both neuropathological aspects and molecular mechanisms of apoptotic neurodegeneration in the in vivo mammalian brain.
PMID: 11303910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Shepard]

99.9% of movies and television are utter crap, and if you talk about them with people who are seriously very intelligent, they will be laughing at you on the inside.

That's pretty funny.

[PeriPhysis]

Hello
Recently I've been reading about alcohol consumption and acording to some studies I've seen, the key, I think, is to consume it with moderation as it seems to have benefits that abstinence does not.
Wine has been long known as healthy in moderation, but now it seems that some of the health benefits attibuted to wine polyphenols are coming from the ethanol itself.

I've found out this on pubmed:

Wine in moderation: how could and should recent in vitro and in vivo data be interpreted?
"Epidemiological data suggest that the moderate consumption of alcoholic beverages may significantly reduce the risk of death from cardiovascular disease and indeed from all causes. Data also suggest that the ethanol component common to all alcoholic beverages confers primarily this protection and other data suggests that the wine-specific polyphenolic compounds confer additional protective effects."

The benefit of alcohol in moderation.
"Small amounts of alcohol were held to be beneficial in the 19th century, but the idea died out. Scientific evidence that moderate amounts prolonged life, published in 1926, was ignored. Further evidence accumulated from the early 1950s but the belief that alcohol was only harmful had become so ingrained that the idea has been taken seriously only since the early 1980s. Now, the evidence that small amounts reduce the risk of vascular disease by about a third and reduce total mortality in middle and old age is massive. Alternative explanations for the observed inverse relationships have been ruled out and beneficial effects have been shown to be biologically plausible."

Moderate alcohol consumption and lower levels of inflammatory markers in US men and women.
"OBJECTIVE: Moderate alcohol consumption is associated with substantially lower risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). We assessed the relationship between alcohol intake and inflammatory markers to partially explain this beneficial effect...
...CONCLUSIONS: Alcohol in moderation is associated with lower levels of inflammatory markers and may lower risk of CVD through these mechanisms."

Alcohol, wine, and health.
"Alcohol by itself has favorable effects on the level of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and inhibition of platelet aggregation. Wine, particularly red wine, has high levels of phenolic compounds that favorably influence multiple biochemical systems, such as increased high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, antioxidant activity, decreased platelet aggregation and endothelial adhesion, suppression of cancer cell growth, and promotion of nitric oxide production."

Also alcohol may decrease the risk of renal carcer:

Alcohol drinking and renal cell carcinoma in women and men.
Alcohol consumption and risk of renal cell carcinoma: a prospective study of Swedish women.

I found out more but it can all be read from wikipedia here or by searching pubmed there is no point in posting it all here.

see you

[FunkOdyssey]

99.9% of movies and television are utter crap, and if you talk about them with people who are seriously very intelligent, they will be laughing at you on the inside.

Is this a personal opinion, or have you been appointed Official Spokesperson for America's Cognitive Elite? Maybe you could provide a list of the 00.1% of movies acceptable for discussion? [tung]

I know this won't make the cut, but Talladega Nights was the funniest movie I've seen all year. Check it out. [thumb]

[john_shade]

Who the **** cares about your brain cells. I'd rather be happy than smart --- and that is the modus operandi of alcohol.

Of course, like any drug, alcohol should be used with the caveat that it tends to make crazy people even crazier.

[john_shade]

Wow... they censor cuss words. Y'all have virgin ears or something?

[kenj]

Who the **** cares about your brain cells.

I do. Exactly WHY I'm happy.

[Pablo M]

Who the **** cares about your brain cells. I'd rather be happy than smart --- and that is the modus operandi of alcohol.

Any reason you are posting on a forum dedicated to infinite lifespans?

[john_shade]

Because there's no use for living long unless you're happy.

[AdamDavis]

Who the **** cares about your brain cells

I do...you can be intelligent and happy. The brain is precious, and abuse of it in thinking that it will make you happy will actually make you unhappy (junk food, for example, make some happy because of the indulgence factor, yet substances like trans-fats damage the brain and can result partly in things like depression).

That is a rather silly thing to inquire...one of they key aspects of life extensionism is good health, both of body and mind.

Wow... they censor cuss words. Y'all have virgin ears or something?

No, I myself find excessive bad language quite offensive and degrading.

[Shepard]

Who the **** cares about your brain cells. I'd rather be happy than smart --- and that is the modus operandi of alcohol.

How old are you?

BTW, have certain words always been censored? I thought that I had pretty much busted them all out at some point in time.

[AdamDavis]

I thought that I had pretty much busted them all out at some point in time.

So had I [sfty]

[John Doe]

I've been drinking on a social basis for more than six years now, and I'm just as intelligent as I've always been.

It's not occasional drinking that threatens intelligence, it's alcoholism and all the HUGE negatives that come with that (my mother was in AA for many years and there are many older alcoholics in my family).  If you get drunk every night for years on end, it does eat away at your brain and your body in general.

The concerns can be social/emotional.  If you are under the influence and get pissed off at someone, is it because you have a legimate issue or because you are drunk?  What if you hit on a female colleague and regret it the next day, etc...

But probably the greatest threat from alcohol is the gigantic risk-associated probability spike produced by consuming alcohol and putting yourself in unsafe situations.  Nearly everyone (around my age) drinks, but they're also too lazy to walk and always drive everywhere... so many people drive drunk multiple times per week.  In my view, this is suicidal.  People need to either A. drink no more than a couple beers in a night (not likely) or B. walk or take a cab!!!

Oh, I understand all of *those* risks. I was focusing on the dangers to the brain. Another forum member found a couple of intriguing (disturbing?) studies...

I think that one's information diet has a heck of a lot more to do with how 'intelligent' they are than what chemicals they put in their body.  99.9% of movies and television are utter crap, and if you talk about them with people who are seriously very intelligent, they will be laughing at you on the inside.

Wow. Are "seriously very intelligent" people also hideously insecure?

[crayfish]

I stopped drinking altogether three years ago, and have touched nary a drop since.

Then some studies threw spanners into the works by suggesting that moderate alcohol drinkers life significantly longer than lifelong teetotalers, that IQ is higher in moderate drinkers, and a few other bits and bobs. Interestingly (to me) ethanol stimulates retinoic acid receptor expression in the brain, a protein which normally decreases with age in the brain and (I hope) might be considered a driver of ageing. All in all, I'm actually considering easing my blanket ban attitude and letting a glass of wine here and there slip back through the net...

[doug123]

News source: Medical News today

Brains Of Recovering Alcoholics Regenerate Surprisingly Fast
18 Dec 2006

A new study shows that the brains of alcoholics who give up alcohol start to show signs of tissue regrowth and recovery within the first two months of abstinence.

The study is published in the online neurology journal Brain.

Scientists already know that chronic abuse of alcohol leads to brain damage which in the most part is irreversible. Long term alcohol abuse impairs brain function and metabolism, changes its structure, and reduces its size.

However, a team of researchers from Germany, Italy, UK and Switzerland have shown that some of the damage can be reversed by sustained abstinence from alcohol.

The scientists followed 15 long term alcoholics over a period of abstinence lasting nearly two months. They used various types of brain scan and computer models to find out how their brains changed during that time. They found that for the most part, their brains increased in size by as much as 2 per cent, and metabolic and psychological performance also increased, as did attention span.

One patient however showed no improvement. He had been drinking for 25 years, the longest period of alcohol drinking of the group.

An interesting point about this study is that the brain increases did not occur all over the mass of brain, but in specific areas.

Among the areas showing partial regeneration were the "superior vermis" (involved in subconscious proprioception such as hand-eye co-ordination) and the frontal lobes. The frontal lobes are the part of the brain that is well developed in humans compared to other animals; it enables us to do things like control impulses, plan, organize, co-ordinate, communicate and socialize.

Other studies of abstinence effects on the brains of alcoholics have also shown increased brain size before - but these results have mostly been explained by increase in water content or tissue hydration. This study has the scientists excited because it shows that the increased brain size is linked to real tissue growth, and in the white matter in particular (white matter comprises axons which help messages move between brain cells).

The scientists also call for more studies into what is going on when the brain recovers from alcohol toxicity since these could be useful for helping with other brain disorders.

"Manifestations of early brain recovery associated with abstinence from alcoholism."
Andreas J. Bartsch, György Homola, Armin Biller, Stephen M. Smith, Heinz-Gerd Weijers, Gerhard A. Wiesbeck, Mark Jenkinson, Nicola De Stefano, László Solymosi and Martin Bendszus.
Brain 2007 130(1):36-47; doi:10.1093/brain/awl303

Written by: Catharine Paddock
Writer: Medical News Today
Article URL: http://www.medicalne...hp?newsid=59318


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[aikikai]

From not drinking any alcohol at all for some yeras, I have now started to drink some moderate levels of alcohol, red wine mostly. But primary I drink alcohol free red wine, just for the resveratrol.

The only thing tha worries me is some brain cells damage, but as I eat high doses of antioxidants, the risk is minimal. And new science shows that the brain is capable through the life to produce new brain cells.