• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Vitamin C's adverse effects


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 ikaros

  • Guest
  • 334 posts
  • 5
  • Location:EU

Posted 12 September 2006 - 06:15 PM


I've been considering for some time now to up my vitamin C dose (currently 400 mg a day), because of all the possible health benefits described in many various studies, but as a careful individual, especially in the field of supplements, I decided before to do some "strictly" negative research on vitamin C to find out if there's something really considerable which would not justify high vitamin C intake. I found problems with large intake of C and association with calcium-oxalate stones, increased uric acid excretion, impaired B12 status, iron overload, systemic conditioning, or increased mutagenic activity, but all of these seemed to have been debunked. Which did bother was this:

Taking Too Much Vitamin C Can Be Dangerous, Study Finds

Those who think that if a little vitamin C is good, more must be better should think again, says a team of British researchers, who found that a supplement of 500 milligrams a day could damage people's genes.
Many Americans take that much, or more, in hopes of preventing colds and reaping the widely celebrated antioxidant benefits of vitamin C. Antioxidants, which block cellular and molecular damage caused by the highly reactive molecules called free radicals, are believed to protect against heart disease, cancer, eye disorders like cataracts and macular degeneration, and other chronic health problems.
But the British researchers, chemical pathologists at the University of Leicester, found in a six-week study of 30 healthy men and women that a daily 500-milligram supplement of vitamin C had pro-oxidant as well as antioxidant effects on the genetic material DNA. The researchers found that at the 500-milligram level, vitamin C promoted genetic damage by free radicals to a part of the DNA, the adenine bases, that had not previously been measured in studies of the vitamin's oxidative properties.
The finding, published in the current issue of the British journal Nature, corroborates warnings that have been issued for decades by an American physician, Dr. Victor Herbert, professor of medicine at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York. Dr. Herbert has shown, primarily through laboratory studies, that vitamin C supplements promote the generation of free radicals from iron in the body.
''The vitamin C in supplements mobilizes harmless ferric iron stored in the body and converts it to harmful ferrous iron, which induces damage to the heart and other organs,'' Dr. Herbert said in an interview.
''Unlike the vitamin C naturally present in foods like orange juice, vitamin C as a supplement is not an antioxidant,'' Dr. Herbert said. ''It's a redox agent -- an antioxidant in some circumstances and a pro-oxidant in others.''
In contrast, vitamin C naturally present in food, he said, has no oxidizing effects.
Vitamin C supplements in large doses have been linked to genetic damage as far back as the mid-1970's. In a study then, Canadian researchers found that use of the vitamin in doses larger than in the British study, but not much larger than the amounts some people take to ward off colds and the flu, damaged genetic material in three systems: bacterial cells, human cells grown in test tubes, and live mice.
The lead author of the new study, Dr. Ian Podmore, said that at 500 milligrams, vitamin C did act as an antioxidant on one part of the DNA, the guanine bases. Oxidation of guanine to oxoguanine is what is usually measured to determine the degree of DNA damage through oxidation.
As expected, when the volunteers took a daily 500-milligram dose of vitamin C for six weeks, oxoguanine levels indeed declined, ''which is why vitamin C is generally thought to be an antioxidant,'' Dr. Podmore said.
But when they measured a second indicator of DNA oxidation, oxoadenine, the researchers found that it had risen rather than declined, ''indicating genetic damage to this DNA base,'' Dr. Podmore said.
A colleague, Dr. Joseph Lunec, said that at the 500-milligram level, vitamin C's ''protective effect dominated, but there was also a damaging effect.''
''There should be caution about taking too much vitamin C,'' Dr. Lunec said. ''The normal healthy individual would not need to take supplements of vitamin C.''
In the United States and Britain alike, the recommended daily intake of vitamin C for healthy adults is 60 milligrams, which can be easily obtained from foods -- by drinking about six ounces of orange juice, for example. Larger amounts are recommended for smokers and for pregnant and lactating women, but even these amounts can be readily obtained from foods.
Dr. Lunec took issue with the late Dr. Linus C. Pauling, the Nobel laureate chemist who took 12,000 milligrams of vitamin C daily and suggested that people could take as much of it as they wanted with no ill effect.
''We think that's not the case, to say the least,'' Dr. Lunec said. ''You can have too much of a good thing.''

The research team is now studying the effects of lower doses of vitamin C, ''to see if we can maximize the protective effect and minimize the damage,'' Dr. Lunec said. Given the new finding, he said, ''it would be unethical to test higher levels.''


http://query.nytimes...757C0A96E958260

The above article is the only one which seems to be an argument which would make me cautious of going over the 500 line, at least in long-term supplementation.

Your comments?

#2 ikaros

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 334 posts
  • 5
  • Location:EU

Posted 12 September 2006 - 06:18 PM

This went to the wrong forum, maybe someone could move it to the supplements area.

#3 Pablo M

  • Guest
  • 636 posts
  • -1
  • Location:Sacramento

Posted 12 September 2006 - 06:45 PM

Try the Vitamin C Foundation's top 10 misinformation page: http://www.vitamincf...ion.org/topten/. Do a page search for "DNA." I'm just about as health-concerned as anyone can be and I am not worried about ascorbate damaging my DNA.

I found problems with large intake of C and association with calcium-oxalate stones, increased uric acid excretion, impaired B12 status, iron overload, systemic conditioning, or increased mutagenic activity, but all of these seemed to have been debunked.

I'm glad you added that last part, because that's a freakin laundry list of vitamin C misinformation stories.

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#4 goku

  • Guest
  • 292 posts
  • -1

Posted 13 September 2006 - 06:20 AM

How new is this study though? Are we sure it's not valid?

#5 ikaros

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 334 posts
  • 5
  • Location:EU

Posted 13 September 2006 - 10:08 AM

Try the Vitamin C Foundation's top 10 misinformation page: http://www.vitamincf...ion.org/topten/. Do a page search for "DNA." I'm just about as health-concerned as anyone can be and I am not worried about ascorbate damaging my DNA.


The site tells of a Merck study which has been refuted, however the one I posted was not mentioned. I did find a pubmed article of a later study by the same researcher who did the first study reporting pro-oxidative effect on DNA and it looks much less menacing:

Dietary supplementation with different vitamin C doses: no effect on oxidative DNA damage in healthy people.Herbert KE, Fletcher S, Chauhan D, Ladapo A, Nirwan J, Munson S, Mistry P.
Dept. of Cardiovascular Sciences, University of Leicester Robert Kilpatrick Building, Leicester Royal Infirmary, Leicester LE2 7LX, UK.

BACKGROUND: Antioxidants are believed to prevent many types of disease. Some previous studies suggest that dietary supplementation with vitamin C results in a decrease in the level of one of the markers of oxidative damage-8-oxoguanine in the DNA of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC).AIM OF TRIAL: To investigate the effect of different dose levels of dietary supplementation with vitamin C on oxidative DNA damage.METHODS: A randomised double-blind placebo-controlled trial was carried out using three different levels (80, 200 and 400 mg) of dietary vitamin C supplementation in a healthy population of 160 volunteers; supplementation was for a period of 15 weeks followed by a 10 week washout period. Peripheral blood samples were obtained every 5 weeks from baseline to 25 weeks.RESULTS: An increase in PBMC vitamin C levels was not observed following supplementation in healthy volunteers. There was no effect found on 8-oxoguanine measured using HPLC with electrochemical detection for any of the three supplemented groups compared to placebo. 8-oxoadenine levels were below the limit of detection of the HPLC system used here.CONCLUSIONS: Supplementation with vitamin C had little effect on cellular levels in this group of healthy individuals, suggesting their diets were replete in vitamin C. The dose range of vitamin C used did not affect oxidative damage in PBMC DNA.

PMID: 16021530 [PubMed - in process]


Although it rather suggests that vitamin C does not have any effect on the DNA, neither positive nor negative.

#6 DukeNukem

  • Guest
  • 2,008 posts
  • 141
  • Location:Dallas, Texas

Posted 13 September 2006 - 01:24 PM

Ikaros, the daily arterial damage you're currently taking by NOT taking more vit. C should be of much more concern to you. ;-)

#7 ikaros

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 334 posts
  • 5
  • Location:EU

Posted 13 September 2006 - 01:49 PM

Yeah it's possible. Someone should clean the web from the bad (and refuted) literature on C - it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. And it's funny how they come up with one result and then later with opposing outcomes.

#8 Pablo M

  • Guest
  • 636 posts
  • -1
  • Location:Sacramento

Posted 18 September 2006 - 07:25 AM

ikaros, I was doing some edits to the wiki section on vitamin C overdose as it was just blatantly wrong. The Institutes of Medicine and the Council for Responsible Nutrition have set Tolerable Upper Levels (UL) and Safe Upper Levels from Supplements (ULS) of 2 grams, based solely on gastrointestinal upset. They found no credible evidence of other side effects. If I haven't gotten the abbreviations correct, forgive me. I've been wading through verbose government documents for hours.

#9 Four_Aces

  • Guest
  • 23 posts
  • 3

Posted 24 September 2006 - 09:31 AM

damnit guys, supplements are not natural. if you're getting 500mg of vit c complex from food, that's fine.. but if youre taking 500mg in chemical form, there's no doubt something is going to go wrong.

when you eat vitamins in food, they come as part of a complex. isolating one compound and upping the levels is just dangerous.

"the vitamin C foundation" - seems like a money grab to me!

#10 kenj

  • Guest
  • 747 posts
  • 67
  • Location:Copenhagen.

Posted 24 September 2006 - 10:11 AM

"the vitamin C foundation" - seems like a money grab to me!



A prevalent (many sources can recommend this, for allround health) long-term approach to take vitamin C from mineral ascorbates IMO is staying between 2 and 3G, depending on physical exercise, - well, that's what I do.
A varied vegetable-derived diet packs alot of vit c also.

#11 DukeNukem

  • Guest
  • 2,008 posts
  • 141
  • Location:Dallas, Texas

Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:22 PM

>>> damnit guys, supplements are not natural. if you're getting 500mg of vit c complex from food, that's fine.. <<<

You simply cannot get enough vit. c from food -- you'd become fat. This is the case with many supplements.

#12 Athanasios

  • Guest
  • 2,616 posts
  • 163
  • Location:Texas

Posted 24 September 2006 - 03:02 PM

FWIW, there are studies that contrast Vit C supplementation to getting Vit C from food. One that I remember came to the conclusion that some benefits could only be achieved with the supplement, not just due to quanity. It is worth the search if you are concerned.

#13 Pablo M

  • Guest
  • 636 posts
  • -1
  • Location:Sacramento

Posted 24 September 2006 - 08:20 PM

PubMed link:

Vitamin C and risk of coronary heart disease in women.

Osganian SK, Stampfer MJ, Rimm E, Spiegelman D, Hu FB, Manson JE, Willett WC.

Department of Medicine, Children's Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. stavroula.osganian@TCH.harvard.edu

OBJECTIVES: Our objective was to prospectively examine the relation between vitamin C intake and risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) in women. BACKGROUND: Results from prospective investigations of the relation between vitamin C intake and risk of CHD have been inconsistent. The lack of clear evidence for a protective association despite a plausible mechanism indicates the need to evaluate further the association between vitamin C intake and risk of CHD. METHODS: In 1980, 85,118 female nurses completed a detailed semiquantitative food-frequency questionnaire that assessed their consumption of vitamin C and other nutrients. Nurses were followed up for 16 years for the development of incident CHD (nonfatal myocardial infarction and fatal CHD). RESULTS: During 16 years of follow-up (1,240,566 person-years), we identified 1,356 incident cases of CHD. After adjustment for age, smoking, and a variety of other coronary risk factors, we observed a modest significant inverse association between total intake of vitamin C and risk of CHD (relative risk [RR] = 0.73; 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.57 to 0.94). Among women who did not use vitamin C supplements or multivitamins, the association between intake of vitamin C from diet alone and incidence of CHD was weak and not significant (RR = 0.86; 95% CI 0.59 to 1.26). In multivariate models adjusting for age, smoking, and a variety of other coronary risk factors, vitamin C supplement use was associated with a significantly lower risk of CHD (RR = 0.72; 95% CI 0.61 to 0.86). CONCLUSIONS: Users of vitamin C supplements appear to be at lower risk for CHD.


This supports the view that vitamin C from diet is simply not enough.

#14 Pablo M

  • Guest
  • 636 posts
  • -1
  • Location:Sacramento

Posted 24 September 2006 - 08:22 PM

if you're getting 500mg of vit c complex from food, that's fine.. but if youre taking 500mg in chemical form, there's no doubt something is going to go wrong.

The only problem with this statement is that the 'natural' vitamin C from food and the 'chemical' vitamin C from supplements are identical.

#15 ikaros

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 334 posts
  • 5
  • Location:EU

Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:04 AM

PubMed link:

QUOTE 
Vitamin C and risk of coronary heart disease in women.

Osganian SK, Stampfer MJ, Rimm E, Spiegelman D, Hu FB, Manson JE, Willett WC.

Department of Medicine, Children's Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts, USA. stavroula.osganian@TCH.harvard.edu

OBJECTIVES: Our objective was to prospectively examine the relation between vitamin C intake and risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) in women. BACKGROUND: Results from prospective investigations of the relation between vitamin C intake and risk of CHD have been inconsistent. The lack of clear evidence for a protective association despite a plausible mechanism indicates the need to evaluate further the association between vitamin C intake and risk of CHD. METHODS: In 1980, 85,118 female nurses completed a detailed semiquantitative food-frequency questionnaire that assessed their consumption of vitamin C and other nutrients. Nurses were followed up for 16 years for the development of incident CHD (nonfatal myocardial infarction and fatal CHD). RESULTS: During 16 years of follow-up (1,240,566 person-years), we identified 1,356 incident cases of CHD. After adjustment for age, smoking, and a variety of other coronary risk factors, we observed a modest significant inverse association between total intake of vitamin C and risk of CHD (relative risk [RR] = 0.73; 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.57 to 0.94). Among women who did not use vitamin C supplements or multivitamins, the association between intake of vitamin C from diet alone and incidence of CHD was weak and not significant (RR = 0.86; 95% CI 0.59 to 1.26). In multivariate models adjusting for age, smoking, and a variety of other coronary risk factors, vitamin C supplement use was associated with a significantly lower risk of CHD (RR = 0.72; 95% CI 0.61 to 0.86). CONCLUSIONS: Users of vitamin C supplements appear to be at lower risk for CHD.


This supports the view that vitamin C from diet is simply not enough.


I have to point out that it's not mentioned how much did the average study subject take vitamin C. Maybe 500 mg or 1 g is already enough to get the optimal benefits.

#16 DukeNukem

  • Guest
  • 2,008 posts
  • 141
  • Location:Dallas, Texas

Posted 29 September 2006 - 06:17 PM

I've recently switched to magnesium ascorbate as my primary source, versus calcium ascorbate. Magnesium appears to practically no negative side affects, whereas I recently read somewhere that too much calcium can tighten muscles (especially leading to back pain, which plagues me to a mild extent), especially when not balanced with magnesium. What I'll likely do is mix both the calcium and magnesium ascorbate powders about 50/50.

#17 Athanasios

  • Guest
  • 2,616 posts
  • 163
  • Location:Texas

Posted 29 September 2006 - 08:46 PM

I like the idea of that mix. I may follow suit.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users