24 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

ive been working a lot, at a pretty high stress job... and not sleeping as much as i normally do. + winter is coming up... so i know im in for the death flu is if i dont try to keep things in check.

other than sleeping more, any recomendations for immune modulators?

some things ive considered:

maitake sx or d fraction
beta glucans (oat?yeast?)
ahcc

[Pablo M]

maitake sx or d fraction
beta glucans (oat?yeast?)
ahcc

Aha! Even before I read the contents of your post, I suspected that these expensive supplements would be discussed. This seems to be the case for supplements mentioned in conjunction with "immune support." I want to tell you that this does not have to be the way it is. An effective, extremely cheap immune-bolstering supplement is available. It is known as vitamin C. I know that you, ajnast, are not a believer in the megavitamin paradigm, preferring instead an even more natural method of healh support. However, as mentioned by Pauling in his classic How to Live Longer and Feel Better, a diet composed solely of whole raw plant foods can contain up to 16 grams of vitamin C. Thus high doses of ascorbate may be more holistic and "natural" than our current moderately processed and cooked diets. I actually wrote an essay arguing that vitamin C has sattvic qualities as described in the Ayurvedic tradition. I can send it to you if you want.

I'm away from home at the moment and so I don't have access to my precious, precious Pauling books and extensive bookmarks on vitamin C. If you wish I can write up a brief summary of vitamin C's effects with regards to the immune system. My general recommendation would be to start with 500mg of vitamin C at least 4 times daily. But I will post more later.

Edited by Pablo M, 24 September 2006 - 07:30 AM.

[ajnast4r]

i usually knock back atelast a gram a C per day...

do you have 'How to Live Loner and Feel Better' as an e-book, if so can you send it to me when you get home plz?

[Pablo M]

Sorry, it's actually 'How to Live *Longer* and Feel Better.' That was my bad. I don't have it as an ebook and I have never seen it available as such, legally or otherwise. I'd recommend you just order it from Amazon. One of the best health books of all time, in my opinion.

i usually knock back atelast a gram a C per day...

It's possible that just isn't enough. Try taking more and see how you feel.

[ajnast4r]

k ill check it out. thanks pablo


any other suggestions?

[xanadu]

For stress, rhodiola rosea is excellent. Lowering your stress levels will make you less vulnerable to disease.

[Athanasios]

Yeah, I was going to recommend an adaptogen. In the personal regimen section, ajnast4r says that "adrenal health" containing 100mg ashwagandha and 200mg rhodiola are a part of the regimen.

Do you drink green tea?

I hear many people tell me that they think green tea keeps them from having the flu. Along the lines of, " I used to get everything going around, and flu every year, but now that i drink green tea, I dont have that problem".

As far as research, I have seen a lot of in vitro stuff that shows green tea inhibits influenza.

[Matt]

Taking Green tea and Resveratrol will help with preventing flu. Vitamin C will help with stress by lowering cortisol and adrenaline

1) Inhibition of influenza A virus replication by resveratrol.
We have previously shown that the life cycles of several viruses are influenced by host-cell redox states. Reports of the antioxidant activities of the plant polyphenol resveratrol (RV) prompted us to investigate its effects on influenza virus replication in vitro and in vivo. We found that RV strongly inhibited the replication of influenza virus in MDCK cells but that this activity was not directly related to glutathione-mediated antioxidant activity. Rather, it involved the blockade of the nuclear-cytoplasmic translocation of viral ribonucleoproteins and reduced expression of late viral proteins seemingly related to the inhibition of protein kinase C activity and its dependent pathways. RV also significantly improved survival and decreased pulmonary viral titers in influenza virus-infected mice. No toxic effects were observed in vitro or in vivo. That RV acts by inhibiting a cellular, rather than a viral, function suggests that it could be a particularly valuable anti-influenza drug.
PMID: 15838800 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2)Antiviral effect of catechins in green tea on influenza
Polyphenolic compound catechins ((-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), (-)-epicatechin gallate (ECG) and (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC)) from green tea were evaluated for their ability to inhibit influenza virus replication in cell culture and for potentially direct virucidal effect. Among the test compounds, the EGCG and ECG were found to be potent inhibitors of influenza virus replication in MDCK cell culture and this effect was observed in all influenza virus subtypes tested, including A/H1N1, A/H3N2 and B virus. The 50% effective inhibition concentration (EC50) of EGCG, ECG, and EGC for influenza A virus were 22-28, 22-40 and 309-318 microM, respectively. EGCG and ECG exhibited hemagglutination inhibition activity, EGCG being more effective. However, the sensitivity in hemagglutination inhibition was widely different among three different subtypes of influenza viruses tested. Quantitative RT-PCR analysis revealed that, at high concentration, EGCG and ECG also suppressed viral RNA synthesis in MDCK cells whereas EGC failed to show similar effect. Similarly, EGCG and ECG inhibited the neuraminidase activity more effectively than the EGC. The results show that the 3-galloyl group of catechin skeleton plays an important role on the observed antiviral activity, whereas the 5'-OH at the trihydroxy benzyl moiety at 2-position plays a minor role. The results, along with the HA type-specific effect, suggest that the antiviral effect of catechins on influenza virus is mediated not only by specific interaction with HA, but altering the physical properties of viral membrane.
PMID: 16137775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3)Vitamin C: Stress Buster
People who have high levels of vitamin C do not show the expected mental and physical signs of stress when subjected to acute psychological challenges. What's more, they bounce back from stressful situations faster than people with low levels of vitamin C in their blood. Earlier studies showed that vitamin C abolished secretion of cortisol in animals that had been subjected to repeated stress In the animal studies, vitamin C fed to rats undergoing stress not only prevented the expected increase in cortisol levels, it prevented the animals from exhibiting the known signs of physical and emotional stress

Source: http://www.medicinen...rticlekey=37379

[doug123]

ive been working a lot, at a pretty high stress job... and not sleeping as much as i normally do. + winter is coming up... so i know im in for the death flu is if i dont try to keep things in check.

other than sleeping more, any recomendations for immune modulators?

some things ive considered:

maitake sx or d fraction
beta glucans (oat?yeast?)
ahcc

Ajna: have you tried excercise yet? I try to jog 2 miles a day on the treadmill...I haven't been "sick" in ages...

Edited by nootropikamil, 25 September 2006 - 10:22 PM.

[Shepard]

Lactoferrin, garlic, maybe taurine, arginine, zinc.

Glutamine might be worth a shot if you have any lying around.

[Pablo M]

As mentioned by the great Linus Pauling and reaffirmed by Hickey and Roberts, taking one gram of vitamin C once daily will be about as effective as taking 200mg once daily. The reason is that, while 1g will raise plasma levels higher than 200mg, both dosages will raise plasma levels for a similar amount of time, thus leaving you unprotected for a significant portion of the day. The "background" level of ascorbate is reported to be 70 µM/l, while repeated high doses can raise this to 250 70 µM/l (see http://www.pubmedcen...?artid=1236801). Thus, a 2 gram dose would give you good protection for a couple of hours, but if you're not repeating it throughout the day it's not protecting you as much as it could be.

[doug123]

Ajna: you might consider adding Vagina Cream to your stack. It seems to be a cure all...I think it might enhance immune response. [lol]

Edited by nootropikamil, 25 September 2006 - 10:22 PM.

[xanadu]

Who is anja?

[ajnast4r]

ive been using that stuff... old news buddy!!
xan,

im aJna... 1st 1/2 of my name.

aJna not aNja btw

[doug123]

ive been using that stuff... old news buddy!!
xan,

im aJna... 1st 1/2 of my name.

aJna not aNja btw

Sorry about misspelling your name, dude. I fixed them in this thread. I tried to pronounce it, and it still doesn't sound right. Is your first name Ajna? How do you pronounce that?

[ajnast4r]

ive been using that stuff... old news buddy!!
xan,

im aJna... 1st 1/2 of my name.

aJna not aNja btw

Sorry about misspelling your name, dude. I fixed them in this thread. I tried to pronounce it, and it still doesn't sound right. Is your first name Ajna? How do you pronounce that?

haha its ok, no one ever spells it right... cos that jn isnt a normal english sound. its ahj-nuh. and its just my 'internet name', my real name is marc

[xanadu]

"my real name is marc"

Then why would you use vagina cream?

[ajnast4r]

"my real name is marc"

Then why would you use vagina cream?

that was a TOTAL joke [lol]

[mitkat]

"my real name is marc"

Then why would you use vagina cream?

Because it was a facetious remark relating to Jay Fox getting the daily show treatment a number of months ago. It's just as humourous suggesting that he take part in this so-called "exercise" you speak of. [lol]

I have upped my vit. c intake to 2 grams a day, ester-c, and I'm feeling proper.

[doug123]

I love Jay's straight faced reply. [mellow]

[ajnast4r]

i of course, started to get sick just like i called... same thing i always get when i combine high stress with no sleep, same symptoms, same everything. never fails, and nothing ever makes it go away.

i started to knock back 2-4 cups of organic green tea (2 bags per cup), and ill be damned if the sickness didnt just up and go away. woke up wed sore throat, runny nose & yellow/green mucous build up... started drinking the green tea. woke up thursday... still stuffy nose, throat is less sore & no mucous. woke up friday... no more soar throat, slightly stuffy nose. woke up today, perfectly fine.

[Athanasios]

Word.

[cellfighter]

Nature's Way Myco-Defense 10 caps taken in 2 doses for 6 days and i'm right as rain. I tried Host Defense from New Chapter but nothing happened. Lucky for me NW's cheaper.

[syr_]

ive been working a lot, at a pretty high stress job... and not sleeping as much as i normally do. + winter is coming up... so i know im in for the death flu is if i dont try to keep things in check.

other than sleeping more, any recomendations for immune modulators?

some things ive considered:

maitake sx or d fraction
beta glucans (oat?yeast?)
ahcc

I think we have to split the options into at least 3 categories:
1. immune system enhancers
2. antiviral and antibacterial substances
3. adaptogens

We all know that stress reduced our own immune system efficiency, but there are also herbs that help your body to handle stress.

In category 1 I would list the 3 substanced that you have mentionned, in this order:
AHCC
mushroom blends (solgar and NOW make very good blends which arent as expensive as AHCC, because it's patented).
cat's claw root *
beta glucans
green and white tea

I have never tried Beta glucans, but I take mushrooms all year round
*Has a dramatic effect on white blood cells to the point to forbid to people undergoing surgery.

In category 2 I list, in this order:
High dose Vitamin C. Oh, Yeah.
allicin
oregano oil
astralgus
echinacea

In category 3 I would list:
-rhodiola rosea
-ashwaganda*
-bacopa monnieri

any single or more has many many positive anecdotal results

*may have unpleasant reactions, search here. I avoid it anyway.

[syr_]

i of course, started to get sick just like i called... same thing i always get when i combine high stress with no sleep, same symptoms, same everything. never fails, and nothing ever makes it go away.

i started to knock back 2-4 cups of organic green tea (2 bags per cup), and ill be damned if the sickness didnt just up and go away. woke up wed sore throat, runny nose & yellow/green mucous build up... started drinking the green tea. woke up thursday... still stuffy nose, throat is less sore & no mucous. woke up friday... no more soar throat, slightly stuffy nose. woke up today, perfectly fine.

I did about the same thing got a bad cold just before I was starting the winter prevention protocol :(
So I megadosed vit C (which means about the double of my normal dose, 3g=>6g), double dosed my mushrooms and raised the zinc intake as well. Killed it in 3 days.