32 replies to this topic

[biknut]

My doctor's complaining about my cholesterol levels. I'm not going to take any of the drugs he wants to push on me. I read that policosanol is used for lowering cholesterol, but results are inconsistent. What's the deal?

Can anyone recommend a brand that works?

[Pablo M]

I read on AOR's site that they stopped sales of policosanol because of inconsistent results. I have read hardly anything about policosanol, but in my view, a negative review from AOR is strong reason to avoid it.

The cheapest, most effective lipid therapy is niacin. I would be willing to bet serious money that in conjunction with high doses of vitamin C it will be a very effective treatment for you.

[biknut]

Thanks for the reply Pablo. I can understand the lack of response about Policosanol. A search on this site doesn't really turn up much information. I never heard of it before yesterday.

I'm planning to do a little more research and I'll check out niacin too.

[health_nutty]

My doctor's complaining about my cholesterol levels. I'm not going to take any of the drugs he wants to push on me. I read that policosanol is used for lowering cholesterol, but results are inconsistent. What's the deal?

Can anyone recommend a brand that works?

What does your diet and exercise program look like?

[biknut]

I exercise to excess. Diet is a different story. I often eat poorly, but I don't over eat.

I control my weight with exercise.

My latest test for cholesterol was, Total, 248, LDL 181
Triglcyerides are always very low.

[chipl]

Look into cinnamon. My understanding is that about 4 grams a day and tapering to two over a month or more works as well as many of the prescribed drugs.

[biknut]

Ummm, Cinnamon. Sounds interesting. I just lately started putting a little cinnamon in my oatmeal. Not anywhere near 4 grams though.

How would one go about taking 4 grams of cinnamon? I wonder how much is in a tablespoon?

I also noticed a product online that is supposed to lower cholesterol, and one of the ingredients was Niacin.

[chipl]

I get mine encapsulated from Puritan. I have also encapsulated my own but the price is often right at Puritan. I take niacin every day too.

[bgwowk]

With those numbers, you are a walking time bomb. You can try niacin, but at the doses required to make a difference, niacin will be just as hazardous as statins, maybe even more hazardous. Don't mess around. TAKE THE STATINS.

If you want to get off statins, cut calories and lose more weight. I don't know any CR people that need statins.

[biknut]

cut calories and lose more weight.

I was afraid you were going to say that. Never the less, I could stand to lose 15 lbs (20 really). No way I'll take statins. That's poison.

[Shepard]

You can look into sesamin. Clean up your diet. What's your exercise regimen like?

I wouldn't really be any more comfortable with policosanol or red yeast rice than I would with statins or fibrates for a long-term solution.

[health_nutty]

I exercise to excess. Diet is a different story. I often eat poorly, but I don't over eat.

Diet is the most important factor. Think of Diet having a 95% and supplements having a 5% effect.

You say that statins are poisin yet you are eating in such a way that is doing obvious harm to your body.

I suspect you already know what you should be eating. The way I keep my goals is to write them down on the
back of one of my business card and read it at least 3 times a day. This is extremely important to keeping my
goals. You need to reprogram your subconscious to make healthy eating a habit. Simple willpower is only
temperary and you will soon revert back to old eating habits.

I would suggest something like this:
I am a health person
I eat 6 servings of veggies a day
I eat a half a cup of oat bran a day


That being said you can also look into aged garlic extract, CoQ10, and niacin but you really need to give your diet the
number 1 priority.

[bgwowk]

No way I'll take statins. That's poison.

LDL unbalanced by HDL is a much worse poison than statins for almost everyone. LDL is right now actively damaging the arteries of your heart, brain, and other organs in ways that will cause you terrible problems in later years. If you hate statins, let that be your motivation for losing weight so you can get off of them. Being "on" LDL is much worse.

[Pablo M]

Niacin will have side effects but not as many as statins. For one, it doesn't deplete your body of coenzyme Q10. The Canadian statin drugs have a warning about this; I've seen them. Not in the US though. There are also other reasons to avoid statins, especially when safer alternatives like niacin exist. Also keep in mind that niacin benefically effects more cardiovascular risk factors than statins do. Niacin raises HDL, lowers LDL, Lp(a), fibrinogen and triglycerides. Statins lower LDL and possibly C-reactive protein. The main side effect of niacin (the histamine flush) will diminish in time. I can take 1000mg of niacin without the slightest feeling of warmth. You may not wish to take 3000mg your very first time taking niacin when you're out to dinner with friends, but once you get used to it you should have no trouble. Also keep in mind that Niacin has actually been shown to reduce mortality (Coronary Drug Project).

[chipl]

Thought this was the case, blueberries: http://www.newstarget.com/002906.html I take concentrated blueberry extract soft gel capsules as well as eat them as often as possible. Costco has them in again right now, I think it was just $3.00 for four pounds, frozen. I'm not sure but cranberry extracts might do similar things. I take concentrated gel caps of them too.

All the mentioning of exercise can't be ignored. Find something you enjoy doing and do it. I'm walking a lot and working in a community garden as much as possible. It feels great.

[Pablo M]

Diet in general has little effect on cholesterol, although I would recommend that you drink black tea and, most importantly of all, avoid sugar in all its forms. Dropping some weight if you need to will also help. I would also strongly urge you to read up on niacin.

You can try niacin, but at the doses required to make a difference, niacin will be just as hazardous as statins, maybe even more hazardous.

I really question this statement. If you are referring to the alleged liver damage of niacin perhaps I can share some information I have on the subject. Dr. Abram Hoffer, one of the pioneers of orthomolecular medicine and the co-discoverer of niacin's lipid effects has perhaps more clinical experience with niacin than any other physician in the world. Has has administered niacin to thousands of patients. He offers much interesting information on niacin, especially with regards to its hepatotoxicity. To summarize, the reputation of niacin as hepatotoxic seems to be the regrettable result of a series of coincidences. Studies in rats initially showed that they developed fatty livers. But follow-up work by Dr. Rudl Altschul at the Mayo clinic showed no effect on the livers. Dr. Altschul attributed this result to the fact that during the time the earlier studies it had been hard to obtain animals without viral infections. Furthermore, as Hoffer discusses in Orthomolecular Medicine for Physicians, liver biopsies of humans have failed to find any evidence of damage. Although niacin does affect liver enzyme tests, Dr. Hoffer feels that niacin interferes with the test for liver function without actually affecting the liver. He has given high doses (30 grams) to schizophrenic patients without toxicity. Now, if niacin really was toxic, one would expect toxic effects to manifest at such enormously high doses. The fact that they have not strongly suggests that niacin is safe. Although Hoffer says he has seen a "few" cases of jaundice, he cannot say with any certainty that this is due to niacin.

See:
http://www.doctoryou.../bvitamins.html
http://www.doctoryou...r_factoids.html
http://www.aor.ca/re...in_no-flush.php

A program I would undertake if I had high cholesterol would be 3g of niacin, 6-10g of vitamin C, 1600mcg of folic acid, 1000-2000mg TMG and adequate B12 and B6.

Edited by Pablo M, 26 September 2006 - 05:46 PM.

[Shepard]

Diet in general has little effect on cholesterol, although I would recommend that you drink black tea and, most importantly of all, avoid sugar in all its forms. Dropping some weight if you need to will also help. I would also strongly urge you to read up on niacin.

You mean dietary cholesterol, not just "diet", right?

I also should have tossed out lecithin.

[Pablo M]

You mean dietary cholesterol, not just "diet", right?

Ah, good call.

[bgwowk]

From the web:

Says Dr. Hoffer: "A person's "upper limit is that amount which causes nausea, and, if not reduced, vomiting.  The dose should never be allowed to remain at this upper limit. The usual dose range is 3,000 to 9,000 milligrams daily divided into three doses, but occasionally some patients may need more. The toxic dose for dogs is about 5,000 milligrams per 2.2 pounds (1 kilogram) body weight. We do not know the toxic dose for humans since niacin has never killed anyone."

Presumably because the people it makes sick stop taking it before it kills them. My perspective is skewed by knowing someone that tried taking naicin on multiple occasions, including with food and with buffers, and always found it to cause intractable nausea after a few weeks using only *200 milligrams* per day. That may be a rare reaction, but it tells you that this is a chemical to be taken seriously. It shouldn't be taken in cholesterol-lowering doses without medical supervision. Supervision is needed anyway to verify that it is having the desired effect.

[Pablo M]

Yes, that effect is known and even Pauling admits that because of biochemical individuality some may need as little as 200mg of vitamin C per day. And this coming from Linus Pauling!

This morning I took a heaping teaspoon of niacin ( flush-causingnicotinic acid form) on an empty so I could report on the side effects for Biknut and I did not experience any flushing or stomach discomfort.

[biknut]

Niacin does look promising, and it's not expensive. Policosanol seems at the very least safe. I may give it a try too. We'll see what happens on the next blood test.

As far exercise, I'm definitely getting plenty. There's no doubt about that. My style of Kung Fu (Hung Gar) is similar to military training. Most people that try it don't last a month. I practically live there.

I have great appreciation for everyone that's taken the time to offer suggestions and concern. I thank each one of you.

Oh yea, and I'm going to fight that devil sugar even harder. (but I got low Triglycerides)

Edited by biknut, 27 September 2006 - 06:53 AM.

[Shepard]

As far exercise, I'm definitely getting plenty. There's no doubt about that. My style of Kung Fu (Hung Gar) is similar to military training. Most people that try it don't last a month. I practically live there.

But do you train too much?

[biknut]

[/quote]But do you train too much?[/quote]

Well for my age, 52, I guess the answer might be yes.

[Pablo M]

Niacin does look promising, and it's not expensive.  Policosanol seems at the very least safe. I may give it a try too. We'll see what happens on the next blood test.

You can get 300 grams of LEF brand niacin for about $10 from babeskin.com. It's in powder form and tastes TERRIBLE, so I would recommend you make capsules with it. Re your idea to take policoasanol and niacin: it may not be a good idea because if your blood test numbers improve, you won't know which substance caused the change.

Oh yea, and I'm going to fight that devil sugar even harder. (but I got low Triglycerides)

That's a really good plan. [thumb]

[syr_]

I read on AOR's site that they stopped sales of policosanol because of inconsistent results. I have read hardly anything about policosanol, but in my view, a negative review from AOR is strong reason to avoid it.

The cheapest, most effective lipid therapy is niacin. I would be willing to bet serious money that in conjunction with high doses of vitamin C it will be a very effective treatment for you.

I used it but since my protocol consisted in other drugs too, I cant say if policosanol was worthless or not. I read that on AOR website a few months ago and for the same reason as you, I'm ruling out policosanol for a further cholesterol therapy.

Red rice yeast and panthethine (which is superior to B5 in all means) are the actual best nutraceutical choices.

[livelong]

Red rice yeast and panthethine (which is superior to B5 in all means) are the actual best nutraceutical choices.

My doctor just prescribed red rice yeast for me when I went to see him about my borderline high cholesterol. One 600mg capsule twice a day.

[scottl]

Red rice yeast and panthethine (which is superior to B5 in all means) are the actual best nutraceutical choices.

My doctor just prescribed red rice yeast for me when I went to see him about my borderline high cholesterol. One 600mg capsule twice a day.

red yeast rice is the same as a statin, so you need at least 100 mg and probably 200 mg Coenezyme Q-10 since these deplete the body of coenzyme Q-10.

[syr_]

I think RRY is less toxic than statins (based on statin content and actual RRY dosage), but I have no proof of this claim.

That dosage you got prescribed, livelong is the standard. When my levels were completely out of whack, i took 1200mg x2 for 1 month.

[saxiephon]

Monday, January 01, 2007

Are Statin drugs an expensive version of vitamin D?

For the past few decades, modern medicine has been warning the public away from high-dose vitamin D supplements, claiming high-D may induce calcium overload, severe headaches and other health problems. Many researchers have pursued the development of vitamin D analogues, near look-alike molecules that can be patented and overcome the alleged side effects.

But on second look, the allegations against high-dose vitamin D appear to vanish. Imagine how preposterous this claim. Why standing in the bright sun at midday for an hour in the summer in a southern latitude area will produce 10,000 units of vitamin D. For vitamin D is a natural hormone/vitamin, produced in the skin upon exposure to UV-B rays. But the National Academy of Sciences says more than 2000 IU of vitamin D (this is a trivial 50 micrograms or 1/20th of 1 milligram) is the upper safe limit.

Dr. Reinhold Vieth of the University of Toronto has conclusively shown that vitamin D toxicity doesn’t begin till 40,000 IU (international units) are consumed daily for a prolonged period of time. Furthermore, the optimal blood level of vitamin D is now believed to be in the range of 75-80 nanomolar/liter concentration. Millions of people, particularly those who live in northern latitudes, have vitamin D blood concentrations one third of the optimal range. Shortages of vitamin D are now being linked to osteoporosis, rickets, cancer, autoimmune disease (rheumatoid, lupus, sarcoid, fibromyalgia), high blood pressure, obesity, mental depression, diabetes, age-related loss of muscle tone and heart failure. [Journal Nutrition 136: 1135-39, 2006; 136: 1117-22, 2006]

Why the major effort to warn the public away from vitamin D? There are a lot of drugs that vitamin D could potentially replace. One class of drugs that vitamin D could possibly replace surprisingly came into view in a recent report in The Lancet, a British medical journal.

David S. Grimes of the Blackburn Royal Infirmary in Britain states: “There are many reasons why the dietary-heart-cholesterol hypothesis should be questioned, and why statin drugs might be acting in some other way to reduce the risk of coronary heart disease. I propose that rather than being cholesterol-lowering drugs per se, statins act as vitamin D analogues (molecular look-alikes), and explain why. This proposition is based on published observations that the unexpected and unexplained clinical benefits produced by statins have also been shown to be properties of vitamin D. It seems likely that statins activate vitamin D cell receptors.’ [Lancet 368: 83-86, 2006]

Early on, European researchers reported that one type of statin drug (simvastatin) raises blood plasma levels of vitamin D. [Cas Lek Cesk 133: 727-29, 1994]

Other researchers in Europe report that patients with a familial high-cholesterol have low concentrations of vitamin D and that a statin drug (Mevacor) actually increases vitamin D levels while lowering circulating cholesterol levels. [Cas Lek Cesk 128: 1254-56, 1989]

Statin drugs have been heralded as wonder drugs, with proposed benefits for bone health, prevention of macular degeneration, prevention of cancer and many other disorders. The list of potential applications for statin drugs mirrors those of vitamin D. [Lancet 368: 83-86, 2006]

The widely disseminated but mistaken concern that high-dose vitamin D is toxic has thwarted research grants. Will modern medicine provide the research funds needed to prove it has been using a liver-toxic form of vitamin D to treat heart disease for the past two decades? © 2007 Bill Sardi, Knowledge of Health, Inc.