20 replies to this topic

[DukeNukem]

Does anyone here have even the slightest hint they can offer me on how to contribute to SENS?!?!

There's nothing on the ImmInst front page (maximized failure!!!).

I tried to contribute to the MPrize several months ago but gave up after being cleverly foiled despite my attempts. Now I have basically given up trying to contribute to SENS.

If it's hard for me, I wonder how close to impossible it is for most others.

Scott

[eternaltraveler]

There's nothing on the ImmInst front page (maximized failure!!!)

Though many of us volunteer with the methusulah foundation and Imminst, they are separate orgs, and some at imminst believe routes other than SENS are the way to go. I agree with you though. It wouldn't hurt to have a link to the Methuselah foundation donation page somewhere.

The methusulah foundation donation page is here:
http://www.mprize.or...il&purpose=sens

[doug123]

Does anyone here have even the slightest hint they can offer me on how to contribute to SENS?!?!

There's nothing on the ImmInst front page (maximized failure!!!).

I tried to contribute to the MPrize several months ago but gave up after being cleverly foiled despite my attempts.  Now I have basically given up trying to contribute to SENS.

If it's hard for me, I wonder how close to impossible it is for most others.

Scott

There is no way to just "join the Methuselah Foundation" -- and that donate page isn't as user friendly as it could be. It took me at least two or three correspondences with Kevin to figure out that I had to put main@methuselahfoundation.org in the send to box to send money through PayPal...

Also, first time visitors should be able to "join" first to receive updates and such without having to donate any money, in my opinion.

That way, folks can learn more about SENS and the Methuselah Foundation before making a donation, which certainly is rational -- some folks need a bit of time to figure out what's going on and ask some preliminary questions. Also, there are no "Methuselah Foundation Forums" -- which would certainly be a welcome addition and allow for question/answer type stuff in absence of the "join" option. It'd be cool if there were some short webcasts where potential donors could "meet the mice and researchers behind the Mprize." Show some pics of the longest living mice...explain a bit about what CR and GH receptor knock out means...that kind of stuff...an "introductory video" that took a potential donor through the labs and gave a bit of summary information behind Dr. de Grey and his work -- I think would be quite effective in getting more donors.

ImmInst did kind of make a recent change to the front page to highlight the $3.5m donation by Peter Thiel...however, I think ImmInst should display how much it has donated directly to aging research...ImmInst has made a sizeable donation to the Methuselah Foundation (almost $4,000).

Edited by nootropikamil, 25 September 2006 - 06:17 AM.

[kevin]

There is no way to just "join the Methuselah Foundation" -- and that donate page isn't as user friendly as it could be.

Thanks for the feedback Adam, please let us know how you would improve it.

People should be able to "join" first to receive updates and such without having to donate any money, in my opinion. 

It's not as obvious as it might soon be, but there *is* an 'enter your email to receive updates' box on the right lower side of most pages. We have hundreds of *subscribers* who have not donated but receive email from us to keep up to date on our activities.

As for the rest of your excellent suggestions below.. we're working on a couple of them and will continue to move forward as need and resources dicate and allow respectively. Rest assured, we're working as hard as we can to advance our common vision.

That way, folks can learn more about SENS and the Methuselah Foundation before making a donation, which certainly is rational -- some folks need a bit of time to figure out what's going on and ask some preliminary questions.  Also, there are no "Methuselah Foundation Forums" -- which would certainly be a welcome addition and allow for question/answer type stuff in absence of the "join" option. It'd be cool if there were some short webcasts where potential donors could "meet the mice behind the Mprize."  Show some pics of the longest living mice...that kind of stuff...an "introductory video" that took a potential donor through the labs and gave a bit of summary information behind Aubrey and his work -- I think would be quite effective in getting more donors.

ImmInst did kind of make a recent change to the front page to highlight the $3.5m donation by Peter Thiel...however, I think ImmInst should display how much it has donated directly to aging research...ImmInst has made a sizeable donation to the Methuselah Foundation (almost $4,000).

[doug123]

I know you guys are volunteers pouring your heart and souls into this, so it's just constructive criticism:

I never saw that "email update" thing before. It's kind of hidden...the donate page, first off, has too much info on it, if you compare it with other organizations that receive lots of donations:

Red Cross: http://www.redcross....ate/donate.html

Amnesty International: http://web.amnesty.o...ages/donate_now

Peace Corps: http://www.peacecorp...nors.contribnow

My opinion is that the donate page should be as simple as possible. But that's just me. Maybe make more steps, but each simpler?

[DukeNukem]

Though many of us volunteer with the methusulah foundation and Imminst, they are separate orgs, and some at imminst believe routes other than SENS are the way to go.  I agree with you though.  It wouldn't hurt to have a link to the Methuselah foundation donation page somewhere.

The methusulah foundation donation page is here:
http://www.mprize.or...il&purpose=sens

Thanks Elrond. I checked out the link, but here's the deal. I talked to Kevin in PM yesterday, and he gave me info on contributing to the MPrize (I think -- as I'm deeply confused at this point). I was going to become a 300 member. I had my check all written out, and before putting it inside an envelop I asked him if Peter would match 50%. He then revealed that that was only for contributions to SENS. And I have no idea how to do that.

The link you gave me above is doubly confusing because it says both MPrize AND SENS. Are they one and the same? Again, despite my efforts, I have no idea what the hell to do. You'd think that something as fundamentally important as contributing money to these critical projects would be made as easy as possible, yet just the opposite is the case based on my experience.

Maybe my interest in doing this will return in a year or so.

Scott

[kevin]

Hi Scott,

Sorry if you're confused...

Just to clarify..

The press release here,

http://www.mprize.or...display&ID=0107

states..

Additionally, from now until the end of 2009, Mr. Thiel promises to match every Dollar donated to the Methuselah Foundation for SENS research with a 50 cent matching contribution from himself, up to a maximum of $3 Million of matching funds.

and perhaps this text at the top of the donate page for SENS Research that Justin directed you to which states..

Creating a SENS Research Donation

Your donation will be applied to directly fund research based on the SENS proposals of Dr. Aubrey de Grey. With an engineers eye to using current technology to remove the damage that accumulates with age, new approaches will show that we don't need to know all the intricacies of the aging process to increase healthy longevity. With your donation, you will be helping directly to place the tools in the hands of the future-looking scientists working on the problem and accelerate the arrival of real anti-aging medicine.

might be helpful.

The options on the rest of the page include explanatory text which we hope is clear but of course not everyone understands the written word in the same fashion. This is why there is often live help at some websites, even with finely tuned information pages. If you would like, I am more than willing to chat on the phone to discover what it is that you find unclear. It would be quite informative for us I believe. Just PM me and we can set up a time if you would like to try that, at my expense of course.

Thanks for your consideration.

Kevin

[DukeNukem]

Kevin,

I saw all of that stuff, but you told me that "He'll match any donations towards SENS research .50 cents for every dollar but NOT the Mprize."

Yet the link you refer to is for the MPrize.

Are they the same or are they different?!?!?!?!?!

If there are in fact two unique pots to contribute to, they should be separated in a very clear fashion. Additionally, the SENS pot should have a notice that points out that funds will be matched by Peter at a 50% rate -- a strong selling point for contributing to SENS.

Even after this thread, I've moved no where closer to understanding how/where to contribute to SENS. And I think this reflects strongly on ImmInst overall as a weakly run organization.

[doug123]

I think there should be an easier way to contribute...and to join as a 300 member. SENS and Mprize do look like the same site.

Apparently, the procedure to donate to the SENS challenge was much easier...Scott donated $2,000.

[John Schloendorn]

I think the websites should get a strict hierachy:

(1) Methuselah Foundation
(1.A) Mprize
(1.B) SENS

The good stuff (blogs, donate buttons, total money counter, ect.) should be on methuselahfoundation.org. Specific project info, detailed money counters and donate buttons for specific branches should go to the respective branches MPrize and SENS.

[doug123]

I think the websites should get a strict hierachy:

(1) Methuselah Foundation
(1.A) Mprize
(1.B) SENS

The good stuff (blogs, donate buttons, total money counter, ect.) should be on .org. Specific project info, detailed money counters and donate buttons for specific branches should go to the respective branches MPrize and SENS.

Wow. I never knew there were 3 sites integrated into one...I am not clear on the differences between the Methuselah Foundation (1), Mprize (1.A), and SENS (1.B) (and I am a 300 member).

I thought (1) and (1.A) were research project implementations based on Aubrey's SENS proposals...this is not clear enough. This is the kind of confusion that can paralyse potential donors...they will be stuck in the state of "what's going on here? What does a donation do?" And after they have joined, someone might ask a newly registered donor:

"Are you a member of the Methuselah Foundation?" And the new donor could very well say: "No, I donated to the Mprize." To be totally honest, I don't know the difference...can someone elaborate? Honestly, I really thought that when I became a member of the 300, that meant I am also supporting SENS....

Each of these three items listed above should have their own unique websites and donation procedure.

Also: it might be a good idea to have a page set up for each of the researchers and their mice...that have weekly, bi weekly, or monthly updates. First time visitors might get drawn in by a visual description of the donation "at work."

Edited by nootropikamil, 25 September 2006 - 06:18 PM.

[doug123]

I'm not sure I understand the problem, it all seems very clear to me.

Then please explain it all for us.

Matt: are you an Mprize donor or a member of the Methuselah Foundation? Or do you support the Mprize and not the Methuselah Foundation?

Oh, so you don't support SENS, you aren't a member of the Methuselah Foundation...but you support the Mprize. Ah.

Or, you support SENS and the Methuselah Foundation...however, you don't want to support the Mprize. Okay.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

[Matt]

Well I meant I don't understand where the problem lies... so what can I really say about it that hasn't already been said here?

[kevin]

Largely, the confusion is a result of the evolution of the sites..

SENS and the Mprize were initially completely separate while the Methuselah Foundation site didn't exist at all. There was little reason to have a Foundation site when the only effort was the Mprize so efforts were concentrated there.

It has been a largely organic growth process, and a rapid one at that. We are not sure yet that the proposed structure that John outlined is the best way forward for various reasons, but it is obvious that relationships need to be delineated and processes clarified.

Such is the price of success.. we wouldn't have the need to change if the pressure of growth wasn't there.

Many thanks to all for your input.. without you and your support we have no reason to to exist at all.

Kevin

[doug123]

We're just trying to help out. Although you guys have received quite a few donations already, I can imagine that figure doubling quickly if visitors to these organization(s) have a better picture of:

1) Where their money goes: does their donation support SENS, Mprize, or the Methuselah Foundation? Visitors need to know the difference between these organizations, what they do; their purpose, etc.

2) The work done in the laboratory: such info on the mice, researchers, methodologies used to extend mouse lifespan and human extrapolations of these therapies.

Then, obviously, simplify the donation procedure, add some community forums, etc..

[kevin]

Kevin,

I saw all of that stuff, but you told me that "He'll match any donations towards SENS research .50 cents for every dollar but NOT the Mprize."

Yet the link you refer to is for the MPrize.

Are they the same or are they different?!?!?!?!?!

If there are in fact two unique pots to contribute to, they should be separated in a very clear fashion.  Additionally, the SENS pot should have a notice that points out that funds will be matched by Peter at a 50% rate -- a strong selling point for contributing to SENS.

Even after this thread, I've moved no where closer to understanding how/where to contribute to SENS.  And I think this reflects strongly on ImmInst overall as a weakly run organization.

The link I refer to is on the Mprize site but the donation is towards SENS. SENS donations are being accepted by the Methuselah Foundation through the donation page on the Mprize website. Perhaps this is the source of confusion?

I can understand that it would be more clear if the donation page for SENS donations was on the SENS site proper, and this could be the direction we go. I should point out that, as others have, ImmInst and the Methuselah Foundation are completely separate entities, so how the Mprize and SENS donation pages and process work should be no reflection on ImmInst.

[doug123]

I can understand that it would be more clear if the donation page for SENS donations was on the SENS site proper, and this could be the direction we go. I should point out that, as others have, ImmInst and the Methuselah Foundation are completely separate entities, so how the Mprize and SENS donation pages and process work should be no reflection on ImmInst.

Kevin: I think Scott is referring specifically to what he mentioned in his first post in this topic; namely, that the ImmInst front page does not have a link to donate to the Mprize, SENS, or the Methuselah Foundation -- or any other anti aging research for that matter. Another "total failure" is the the ImmInst front page does not even have a clear link to donate to ImmInst or a brief synopsis on the benefits of Full membership...

I agree that it's a "maximized failure"...because as far as being "Advocates for research for unlimited lifespans" goes -- anti aging research is the only game in town -- and ways to take action should be on the front page as it is in line with the mission. ImmInst should give the Mprize, SENS, or the Methuselah Foundation free banner space to donate to their research (on the front page, possibly?) as the mission would only be furthered by it and ImmInst is also non profit.

The ImmInst front page should have links to information on how to advocate (aka support) this important research. If there is any other research aimed at extending healthy human lifespan, let me know about it.

As far as I know, SENS, Mprize, and the Methuselah Foundation are the only game in town.

[jaydfox]

As Elrond stated (way up at the top), ImmInst and the Methuselah Foundation are two separate organizations. We have two different leadership structures. The missions of each org have elements in common, but are fairly distinct.

We can't fix their donation process, but we can make suggestions. It helps that Kevin is a member (and leader) here at ImmInst. So let's get this worked out.

ImmInst, on our part, can provide better/more prominent links to the MF website, to whichever page Kevin feels appropriate. Kevin? Just the donation page? Or is there an information page (other than the home page) that might have better explanations?

[DukeNukem]

Jay, I have always assumed that the Methuselah Foundation and the MPrize were essentially the same: it's the MFoundation that is managing the MPrize. I never knew there was a separate bucket for SENS. This is the bucket I want to contribute to because of the 50% bonus kicker.

I'll wait until all of this pans out and things become more clear before I join... For example, does SENS have a 300 program? I'm sure at some point in the future, maybe a few years, all will become clear. Until then, back to investing in stocks... ;-)

[jaydfox]

Duke, As it turns out, you can be a 300 member and donate to SENS. This was not possible until a few months ago.

When the 300 program was devised, I think it was meant as a way to get the MPrize up to $10 million and beyond. I'm only guessing of course, but this makes the most sense to me. At the time, Aubrey was using figures of $5 to $10 million when describing his ambitions for the prize.

Anyway, 300 people, each paying at least $25,000, would mean at least $7.5 million. Some would pay more than $25,000, and many other people would donate smaller amounts like $10 or $100. So in theory, by the time the MPrize could fill the ranks of the 300, there would be $10 million in cash and long-term commitments.

Now, there is a complicated set of accounting that goes into figuring out the various totals on the MPrize detail page:
http://mprize.org/in...zedetaildisplay

I used to know the details, back when I used to actively help Kevin with the site. The details have grown even more complex since then. Suffice it to say, it was policy for quite some time to require 300 commitments to be paid towards the MPrize fund itself. This made the math easier to track, and it also helped preserve the original intent of the 300 (to boost prize value).

At some point in the last several months, the requirement that 300 donations go to the MPrize was lifted. Now, 300 donations can go to SENS research. So even current 300 members can make their donations for the next few years go to research, in order to mobilize Thiel's matching funds. But I don't know how the Methuselah Foundation people feel about this, or whether they have a plan for this. For example, if current 300 members decide to donate to SENS research, then the projected MPrize fund could actually decrease, since it currently assumes all pending commitment payments will be going to the prize.

But the point is, you can be a 300 member and donate to SENS research. I'm 90% sure of this. (The other 10% is that maybe I'm getting Methuselah Foundation expense contributions mixed up with SENS research contibutions.)

[Da55id]

Sorry for the confusion: Rather than reiterate good points made above - I'll state some authoritative fundamentals for the record.

The Methuselah Foundation is a Virginia non-profit corporation that is a 501c)3 public charity with full IRS recognition for tax deductibility. This foundation's operations include both the Mprize and SENS.

Until recently all 300 member's donations were allocated to the Mprize. As The Methuselah Foundation expanded operations to include the SENS research initiatives such as LysoSENS and soon MitoSENS, the board of directors and advisors to the Methuselah Foundation recommended that (primarily new) members of The Three Hundred would be able to donate to support SENS research via their membership. This recommendation was adopted.

There will be a meeting of the long term volunteers and advisors of the Foundation in November to iron out a number of current wrinkles and plow the road ahead. Naturally any great changes we could make to ease confusion should not wait for that meeting.

I hope this info is useful
Cheers,
Dave Gobel
Co-founder
Methuselah Foundation