46 replies to this topic

[jaydfox]

I've been drinking more and more caffeine lately, finding that I've built up a nasty tolerance. The first few doses of the day actually increase my mental fog, so I have to either have a whole bunch or none at all. And of course, none at all is only an option for one or two consecutive days. sigh.

[Ghostrider]

Caffeine free for about a 1.5 mths... drinking only water, and feeling much better.

Yeah, it's been a while since I consumed caffeine. I currently drink a lot of water and tea though.

[emerson]

I've only been able to get fully off of caffeine once or twice, and I always come crawling back. For whatever reason, while some people seem to be fine after a couple days, I'm usually pining and clutching my head in pain for at least that two week estimate.

The kicker for me was green tea. It's looking too good a potential to give up for the sense of freedom that non-addiction to caffeine brings.

[doug123]

Yeah...it's a little off topic...

Yeah I'm quitting smoking.

**looks at pack next to mouse ...  [mellow] **

I'm trying to back into exercising to offset the addiction.

Your mouse is likely to get cancer from second hand smoke...

Today's news is Exercise plus nicotine replacement helps smokers butt out...you might want to follow through on the exercising idea...

Another reason to quit smoking:

BBC: News source

Smokers 'suffer more knee pain'

Osteoarthritis of the knee is more painful and more damaging in smokers, a study reports.

Men who smoked had more progressive disease and reported higher levels of pain, a US team found.

Around a million people suffer from osteoarthritis in the UK - a condition causing inflammation and loss of cartilage in the joints.

The study in Annals of Rheumatic Diseases supports previous research showing smokers feel more back pain.

The researchers followed 159 men with symptomatic osteoarthritis of the knee for 30 months.

It's not unique to knees, there's a strong relationship with smoking and worse back pain
Professor David Felson

Overall, 12% of the participants were current smokers.

MRI scans of the knee showed that the smokers had a more than two-fold increased risk of loss of cartilage in the knee joint - a process that occurs as the disease progresses.

Men who smoked also had higher pain scores than men who didn't smoke throughout the study.

The greater amount of pain was unlikely to be due to increased cartilage loss as cartilage does not have pain fibres.

Pain threshold

Study author Professor David Felson, professor of medicine at Boston University Medical School said there were a few potential explanations for the pain finding but it could be explained by changes in pain thresholds in smokers.

"There is data elsewhere that shows smokers feel more pain. It's not unique to knees, there's a strong relationship with smoking and worse back pain.

"My guess is it's a general increase in musculoskeletal pain and that something in cigarette smoke sensitises people to lower pain thresholds," he said.

Osteoarthritis is much more common in women but there were too few women smokers in the study to measure the effect on them.

However Professor Felson said the results would probably be the same: "There's no reason it would be different in women as I don't think the biology is likely to be different but we can't be sure."

"It's an additional reason to stop smoking as it may lessen the pain and rate of cartilage loss," he added.

Dr Peter Stott, a GP in Tadworth, Surrey and member of the scientific advisory committee of the National Osteoporosis Society said it was hard to be categorical about the findings as the research was preliminary but it was another reason to stop smoking.

"It's interesting but there could be a number of reasons for the findings which are unrelated to smoking.

"One is that smokers are different emotionally as they have a tendency to be addicted and to need things that give them relief such as cigarette smoke.

He added: "The finding that needs to be looked at in another study is the cartilage loss because other studies have shown smoking is protective."


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/6214218.stm

Published: 2006/12/07 00:31:37 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[doug123]

Yeah I'm quitting smoking.

**looks at pack next to mouse ...  [mellow] **

I'm trying to back into exercising to offset the addiction.

Your mouse is likely to get cancer from second hand smoke...

Today's news is Exercise plus nicotine replacement helps smokers butt out...you might want to follow through on the exercising idea...

Well hankconn, it appears that exercising while you are smoking is a better idea than just smoking...

News source: Scientific American

December 15, 2006

Exercise may reduce smokers' lung cancer risk

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Women who smoke may be able to reduce their lung cancer risk with exercise, a new study shows. But the investigators caution that any relative benefit is dwarfed by the benefits gained from kicking the habit.

In the study, women who reported high levels of physical activity were 23 percent less likely to develop lung cancer than those who were the least active, report Dr. Kathryn H. Schmitz of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia and colleagues. And among women who smoked, greater activity was tied to a 28 percent lower lung cancer risk, while women who were ex-smokers showed a 37 percent lower risk with more activity.

Nevertheless, smokers remained at much higher risk of lung cancer than those who had never smoked, or those who had quit, Schmitz and her team note. "Quitting smoking is the single most important action a smoker can take to reduce risk of lung cancer," they note.

Studies investigating the effect of exercise on lung cancer risk have had mixed results. To better understand the relationship, they looked at 36,929 women participating in the Iowa Women's Health Study who were followed from 1986 to 2002. Those who reported participating in vigorous activity at least twice a week, or moderate activity more than four times weekly, were classified as having a high physical activity level.

Overall, the researchers found, women who were the most active were 23 percent less likely to develop lung cancer, while those who were moderately active (meaning they exercised vigorously once a week or moderately one to four times weekly) had a 21 percent lower risk than those who were the least active. Women who reported vigorous physical activity more than once a week reduced their lung cancer risk by 29 percent.

Exercise also reduced lung cancer risk among smokers, but had the strongest effect for ex-smokers, the researchers found.

While exercise could be helpful to smokers who aren't yet willing to quit, and could also be beneficial to women who fear that they will gain weight when they quit, kicking the habit remains "unarguably the most important action for the reduction of lung cancer risk," the researchers conclude.

SOURCE: Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers & Prevention, December 2006

[basho]

So, is coffee good or bad? This thread has left me confused:

The good:
* Cognitive enhancer
* Lowers incidence of liver damage
* Lowers risk of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's
* Contributes to dental cavity prevention
* Helps with weight loss
* Nice social activity
* And... “Researchers at Southwestern University have shown that caffeine may put females in the mood for more sex. Researcher Fay Guarraci, PhD, says female rats that were given a shot of caffeine before mating, were anxious to resume their carnal activities following the first bout”

The Bad:
* Decreases blood flow through the brain
* Increases blood pressure
* Discolours teeth
* Increased vulnerability to stress
* Contributes to anxiety

So, will I live longer if I quit coffee or keep drinking it?

[Shepard]

So, will I live longer if I quit coffee or keep drinking it?

It's going to depend on the individual. Other than use in a fat-loss effort, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for obese people. Even though it does have insulin-sensitizing effects, I'd probably try something else first.

[ajnast4r]

what shepard said, it depends VERY MUCH on the individual... people who metabolise caffeine slowly, apparently die earlier...

owing to the fact that theres no way to tell how fast you metabolize caffeine, and that caffeine is *extremely* addictive...i would say limiting caffeine use to functional and recreational use would be best.

[jnutter]

I've gone through a few particularly brutal cold-turkey caffeine detoxes. I keep going back though.

When I decided to stop drinking diet soda (I figured my regular aspartame-then-sucralose intake was probably dangerous), I found that green tea had just enough caffeine to keep me from experiencing most withdrawal symptoms. Depending on what you drink, I think it tends to have 5-10% the amount of caffeine found in coffee.

My new morning wake-me-up is mate (specifically Teavana's Spicy Nut Mate) with a few drops of Stevia.

[Mind]

I drink green tea on most days. I get about half the caffeine I would get if I was drinking one cup of coffee. Then I also get some caffeine from my sugar free chocolate supplement (I think that is about one third of the caffeine you would find in a normal cup of coffee). I don't think that is too much. What does everyone else think.

When I need an extra kick, maybe once a week, I go for the fancy (sugar-free) energy drinks, like Redline, No Fear, Monster, Reb Bull, whatever is on sale.

Also, I have found that kicking the habit is a lot easier if you start on a weekend when you can just lay around and do nothing for a couple of days. That way you can just sit on the couch and veg, while the headache mulls around in your grey matter.

[maestro949]

I drink green tea on most days. I get about half the caffeine I would get if I was drinking one cup of coffee. Then I also get some caffeine from my sugar free chocolate supplement (I think that is about one third of the caffeine you would find in a normal cup of coffee). I don't think that is too much. What does everyone else think.

I too find find smaller doses from tea much more tolerable than the spikes from coffee or soda. Avoiding the cream and sugar eliminates a lot of unecessary fat, sugars and calories as well. Nothing wrong with that.

The stimulant effect from chocolate that you are probably attributing to caffeine is actually theobromine which is a methylxanthine that has a chemical structure nearly identical to caffeine. The differences are quite significant in their affect on your system. Theobromine is much gentler. See this link for an excellent comparison of the two chemicals. If for any reason you're interested in the cartesian coordinates or bond angles of this molecule, you can find them here.

[Athanasios]

I drink a cup of black coffee in the morning and two cups of green tea in the afternoon, both with xylitol. I have not become desensitized to it, which I expected I would. I also don't feel tired or withdrawn when I don't have the daily coffee and tea. Maybe the adaptogens and melatonin I take affect that.

[garethnelsonuk]

I thought i'd resurrect this thread as i'm currently trying to quit by going cold turkey. I currently consume near a gram daily most days (and more on some days) and when I try to merely cut down the dose creeps back up without me realising.

I already take tons of adaptogens (Rholdiea Rosea, Korean Ginseng, Siberian Ginseng, Ashgwanda) but concerned about the withdrawal symptoms as these may be what holds me back in my goal. Any ideas people?

[Ghostrider]

Best to avoid caffeine and sugar. I stay away from the stuff, but caffeine is kind of helpful on some tests.

[wayside]

When I was drinking a lot of diet cola (1 to 2 liters/day), I would get nasty headaches starting about 24 hours after the last 'dose'. For me it took about 4-5 days to get over it and I felt like crap during the process. Ibuprofen helps, along with a lot of water.

I drink mostly tea now, and not in anywhere near the quantities I was drinking diet cola. So I don't really get headaches any more if I go 2-3 days without.

I think cold turkey is best. You just have to suck it up until the headaches stop.

[maestro949]

When I was drinking a lot of diet cola (1 to 2 liters/day), I would get nasty headaches starting about 24 hours after the last 'dose'. For me it took about 4-5 days to get over it and I felt like crap during the process. Ibuprofen helps, along with a lot of water.

I drink mostly tea now, and not in anywhere near the quantities I was drinking diet cola. So I don't really get headaches any more if I go 2-3 days without.

I think cold turkey is best. You just have to suck it up until the headaches stop.

Do you drink caffeine free tea?

[wayside]

Do you drink caffeine free tea?

No, but I only drink one cup a day, occasionally two. And the green tea supplement I take has very little caffeine as well. So overall I'd estimate I've reduced my caffeine consumption 80-90%.