19 replies to this topic

[Four_Aces]

how do nootropics interact with other commonly used drugs such as weed, alcohol and lsd?

[Centurion]

topic: 
Synergy with Cannabis, which nootropic enhances your high

Try headbutting a hard surface, knocking back three shot of tequila, strangling yourself and then branding your arse with an iron saying WHAT WERE YOU THINKING

[Shepard]

You'd be better off checking out some threads at Mind and Muscle.

[Four_Aces]

centurion, have i offened you? why did you try nootropics then?

have i voilated the "image of the immortalist"?

if a thread is out of bounds, let a moderator remove it.

[Centurion]

centurion, have i offened you? why did you try nootropics then?

have i voilated the "image of the immortalist"?

if a thread is out of bounds, let a moderator remove it.

How could you possibly offend me, we don't even know each other?
You haven't voilated anything don't worry about that, but combining powerful prescription drugs with recreational substances for a kick or a high is a very dangerous road, you should have a think where it might take you before you set off down it.

[Four_Aces]

these are not really prescription drugs. they are legal drugs we buy from the internet. i don't think they are all powerful substances either. a lot of people describe find them subtle. and yes, of course, nootropics with more powerful effects should probably not be combined with other drugs.

but why you think it's dangerous to combine many powerful prescription drugs?? look at people's "stacks". how many drugs are combined there... 5, 20 at once?

Edited by ahoffm, 01 November 2006 - 01:41 AM.

[Centurion]

these are not really prescription drugs. they are legal drugs we buy from the internet. i don't think they are all powerful substances either. a lot of people describe find them subtle. and yes, of course, nootropics with more powerful effects should probably not be combined with other drugs.

You're being insanely general here, you're going to have to read up on individual drugs before you even begin. You can't decide all nootropics are subtle and therefore harmless, modafinil is far from subtle yet is considered by most here as a good nootropic. (Also, a prescription drug) Become more discerning, it's your health and your mind you're dealing with here

but you think it's dangerous to combine many powerful prescription drugs?? look at people's "stacks". how many drugs are combined there... 5, 20 at once?

Pretty much everyone here designs their stack based on research and with a view to enhancing wellness rather than getting a quick buzz. Additionally many people here have stacks which are 10,20 items long yet still have very few nootropics.

If you think that messing around with multiple psychoactive substances in a haphazard manner all for a quick kick is not dangerous you're in for a shock.

[Four_Aces]

alcohol and piracetam seem to interact with one another.

in a thread, xanadu said:

Piracetam seems to enhance the effects of other drugs including alcohol. Just become more moderate when you are using pir which you should every day.

[Centurion]

Piracetam isn't the only nootropic out there........
Although it is the safest and definitely the subtle kind to which you were referring. I can attest to the subtlety of its effects.
All I'm doing is suggesting you use caution, so you don't accidentally come to harm.

[Centurion]

If its of any use to you when I was making use of cannabis I found that having the lights out helped. Particularly if you're listening to music or talking to people in the room with you.

[Four_Aces]

I will try and use caution. im glad we got that cleared up!

thats true about having the lights out. (in bed is especially comfortable)

when i tried mushrooms i found a large difference when my eyes saw black. everday visual information seems unnecessary/less important to process.

[mitkat]

how do nootropics interact with other commonly used drugs such as weed, alcohol and lsd?

It's really hard to say without defining what nootropics you had in mind, combined with what recreationals (and yes, be prepared to be stomped on for suggesting such things exist in the realm of 'immortalism'). I find high-quality choline gives me a bit of an uncomfortable rush if I take too much...and yes, it's that uncomfortable. So, I would never combine that with something that might be...rushy. Centurion just had a bit of a mad experience with piracetam and booze himself, he's no prude [lol] [thumb]

Seriously though...I wouldn't combine the two. From a harm reduction standpoint, you can stand taking a day or two off nootropics if you're going to do anything recreational, drinking, etc. As listed in many other threads, more does not equal better, good or bad stuff. Personally, if I'm going out drinking, I make sure to get my full anti-oxidant stack on before and afterwards. I have found it to be a good preventative of any unpleasantries.

[Centurion]

You ever try a strong coffee followed by a few whiskey? Makes my appreciation of music much deeper and involved

[superpooper]

Some of the people over on avant labs seem to like theanine-phenibut-alcohol combination.

[zoolander]

Actually, combining some nootropic/pharmaceuticals can act to protect you from the harmful effects of illicit substances

For example, combining L-deprenyl with MDMA (Ecstacy)

    The monoamine oxidase-B inhibitor L-deprenyl protects against 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine-induced lipid peroxidation and long-term serotonergic deficits.

        * Sprague JE,
        * Nichols DE.

    Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana, USA.

    3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-induced serotonergic neurotoxicity was assessed in the striatum, hippocampus and frontal cortex of rats by using [3H]paroxetine binding to label serotonin (5-HT) uptake sites and 5-HT and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) levels as markers of serotonergic function. NMDA (40 mg/kg) induced a significant decrease in both [3H]paroxetine binding Bmax and 5-HT and 5-HIAA levels 7 days after treatment. The monoamine oxidase-B inhibitor L-deprenyl (2 mg/kg) administered 30 min before MDMA blocked these decreases. MDMA (40 mg/kg) also maximally increased the formation of thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (an indicator of lipid peroxidation) 12 hr after treatment in all three brain regions studied. This increase in malondialdehyde formation was also blocked by pretreatment with L-deprenyl. Tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH) activity was also significantly reduced 18 hr after MDMA. L-Deprenyl reversed this decrease in TPH activity. Another experiment confirmed that a significant fraction of [3H]dopamine uptake into hippocampal synaptosomes was blocked by 500 nM fluoxetine, a selective 5-HT uptake inhibitor. These data suggest that the deamination by monoamine oxidase-B of excessive dopamine within the 5-HT terminal generates hydrogen peroxide that may lead to membrane lipid peroxidation, and perhaps other oxidative insults, resulting in selective 5-HT terminal degeneration subsequent to MDMA treatment.

    PMID: 7538579 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

and

    Inhibition of MAO-B protects against MDMA-induced neurotoxicity in the striatum.

        * Sprague JE,
        * Nichols DE.

    Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907, USA.

    The effects of the MAO-B inhibitors, L-deprenyl and MDL-72974 on MDMA-induced serotonergic neurotoxicity in rats were examined. MDMA alone produced a significant decrease in the number of 5-HT uptake sites, measured as a decrease in the Bmax for binding of [3H]paroxetine, and in 5-HT and 5-HIAA levels in the striatum. L-Deprenyl and MDL-72974 attenuated this MDMA-induced decrease in serotonergic markers. The data suggest a key role for MAO-B in the expression of the neurotoxicity produced by MDMA in the striatum.

    PMID: 7542394 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Additionally, post loading with 5-HTP can help restore serotonin depletion after MDMA use

    Patterns of use and harm reduction practices of ecstasy users in Australia.

        * Allott K,
        * Redman J.

    Department of Psychology, Monash University, Vic. 3800, Australia. kelly.allott@med.monash.edu.au

    Harm reduction refers to the use of strategies to prevent or reduce harmful consequences associated with illicit drug use. There is a paucity of research concerning the harm reduction practices employed by ecstasy users. This study aimed to explore the prevalence, nature and factors associated with harm reduction practices employed by ecstasy users in Australia, with a specific focus on the practice of preloading and postloading--the use of pharmaceuticals and natural products prior and subsequent to ecstasy use. One hundred and sixteen Australian residents aged 18 years and over who had used ecstasy at least once in their lifetime were recruited via convenience sampling, 'snowballing' and via web-based advertisements and completed an anonymous questionnaire. Participants reported using a wide range of strategies for minimising ecstasy-associated harm. The most common strategies used for reducing negative side effects, 'comedown' or neurotoxicity were drinking water, limiting or reducing ecstasy use, taking breaks and taking vitamins or other natural substances. Forty percent of the sample had tested their ecstasy pills for the presence of MDMA. Forty-one percent and 47% of participants had engaged in pre- and postloading, respectively, with the most common pre- and postloading substances being multivitamins, 5-HTP, magnesium and fruit or fruit juice. Younger mean age and 'high' total occasions of ecstasy use was significantly associated with preloading, and 'high' total use and frequency of use was associated with postloading. The results indicate that ecstasy users are aware of the potential for harm associated with ecstasy use and attempt to minimise harm by actively employing strategies. By exploring the pattern of harm reduction practices among ecstasy users, this study has highlighted the need for further research into the efficacy and potential clinical drug interactions associated with such practices, as well as the need for investigation of how such practices may affect patterns of ecstasy use.

    PMID: 16226850 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Mitkats response is a sound and smart approach. Pre-load with vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and even some isolated amino acids such as Taurine, which will help you get through an event in the safest way possible. Keep in mind that I use the word "safe' very losely when referring to the use of illicit substances as it's never safe in my eyes.

I guess what you are looking for you might find here at:

erowid.org

[ikaros]

I find modafinil mixing pretty well with alcohol producing such clearheaded drunkeness, though modafinil in the first place isn't a great idea for creative socializing if you might have an idea what I'm talking about.
Phenibut and alcohol seems to cause stiff neck [glasses] , which will turn into quite a freakshow if you're at a party - I almost could not move my head from side to side. This is just not me...I've had other people reporting this effect on phenibut.

[kylyssa]

how do nootropics interact with other commonly used drugs such as weed, alcohol and lsd?

Are you looking for something to offset the damage caused by marijuana, alcohol, and LSD?

Synergy is where two things work together towards a common result and increase each others' effect. Since nootropics have effects (it can be argued whether they even have effects at all, though) opposite to those of marijuana and alcohol chances of them having synergy with such substances is extremely low.

[mitkat]

I used to volunteer with a harm reduction rave-safe type organization in Toronto during high school when I was part of the rave community. I always emphasized consuming 5-HTP for ecstacy users, and that was one of the main drugs being dosed. We "pushed" vitamins too, but admitted I didn't know nearly as much about vitamins that I do now, and really wish I did - although younger ravers did love those chewable flintstone vitamins .

Oh man...remember back when you used to just think "whatever multivitamin = good"?


Sorry if I missed it, but what nootropics were you or have you been taking ahoffm? PM me if you like.

edit: i heart spelling errors

Edited by mitkat, 06 November 2006 - 02:40 AM.

[xanadu]

kylyssa wrote:

"Synergy is where two things work together towards a common result and increase each others' effect. Since nootropics have effects (it can be argued whether they even have effects at all, though) opposite to those of marijuana and alcohol chances of them having synergy with such substances is extremely low."

How do you figure nootropics have effects "opposite" those of marijuana or alcohol? As a matter of fact, piracetam does potentiate both those substances as well as others.

zoo wrote:

"Keep in mind that I use the word "safe' very losely when referring to the use of illicit substances as it's never safe in my eyes."

What is your definition of illicit substances? Are you saying those things proscribed by law are necessarily bad or unsafe and those things not so proscribed are therefore safe? If so, you are placing way too much faith in government and authority in general. Would you say that you are authoritarian in your views? Governments disagree on many things so a product deemed safe in one country, such as piracetam, might be considered unsafe in another country. Marijuana seems to help treat glaucoma and prevent alzheimer's, among other benefits. Alcohol is legal most places. Is alcohol safe then?

[brutale]

My main experience along this line is that modafinil and alcohol don't mix well for me.

Fortunately, I find myself having almost no interest in drinking when I take modafinil. Prior to that, I was a regular 1-2 drinks per evening guy. I felt that it was probably good for me (polyphenols from red wine, benefits of low alcohol consumption on HDL, etc.).

Now, I'm having a hard time getting myself to finish that glass of wine, and my HDL appears to have dropped. [:o] Perhaps more exercise will do the trick.

Piracetam allegedly potentiates the effects of some drugs. I recall seeing a study in which piracetam was used in coke users -- it didn't help (if my memory is right) and actually increased the incidence of usage slightly.

I'm pretty negative on street drugs ... see the recent meth thread on the damage it causes. As Nootropikamil correctly observed, nootropics may be able to play a role in helping people recover from damage related to substance use. I hope more research is done in this area.