44 replies to this topic

[Centurion]

Just how much alteration would you be ok with. Increased brain capacity, musclular strength, imagine for a second pretty much anything was possible, what would you do?

[mitkat]

Oh, I don't know...considering the amount of facial modification I've had over the years, I'd be in for a lot

No seriously, any sort of CNS/cerebral implant/augmentation I'm not ready for. Not in the 1st generation of "mods", whatever P.C. term will be invented for them. It's too risky, I'm going to sit that one out a bit.

But as far as other things go, more minor modifications that I've read about seem fairly non-invasive, and beneficial. One that comes to mind that's been done (with fairly limited success) is the fingertip magentic implants. This could be incredibly useful, and at the very least experience enriching (dare I say...sensory expanding? Nope, sounds cheesy.)

I'm looking forward to getting my eyes fixed when I'm older, much older. I'd love to have a set of my own eyes, cloned - although since I have very, very weak eyes now, it might be more prudent just to heal my current ones? I don't know, but dammit, they'll be some interesting options coming out, for sure.

[the big b]

I am ok with pretty much every type of alteration, however if it some how involves the loss of my reproductive organs, that would be where I draw the line.

[Centurion]

Same here man, id take everything thats going. Id be a freakin cyborg

[mitkat]

Same here man, id take everything thats going. Id be a freakin cyborg

Haha, I thought you might say that

I'm okay with the idea of mods, but I like so much of what I am now in many ways; how I look, how I act - I'd worry about meddling too much with all sorts of crap that would change who I am entirely. Something I am very interested in is the ability to regulate learning disabilities, brain function diagnostics, things like that..that's where I see a lot of good coming from.

Also a big nod on the no-no reproductive organ touchie.

[Centurion]

lol, you know me too well.
Yeah memory upgrades would rock. Imagine having semiconductor memory chips to access at will. I don't mind being touched, just not modified (I kid, I know what you meant)

[mitkat]

I don't mind being touched, just not modified

Dammit! [lol]

I imagined robotic arms on an assembly line just...goin' for me. It was not cool.

[Centurion]

Ah robotic arms yeah that is kinda freaky. What about that new japanese sex android?

[Mind]

Short term: I will probably get lasik eye surgery within a year or two.

Long term: pretty much everything.

[ikaros]

You know...perfection might make life boring in a way, so I would just satisfy with good health and extended life-span. Being a cyborg entails dead psychology...but then again it's only my oppinion.

[kylyssa]

I'd currently love to do lasik but I've been evaluated as a poor candidate - sooooooo, as soon as they've figured out something similar for people with severe dry eye and Sjogren's syndrome I will be all over that one.

I'd like my hearing reinstated in my deaf ear and improved in my hearing impaired ear - hey, go for broke, make it superhuman hearing while you're at it. I'd like my legs repaired to full function, knee joint overhauled, nerve damage repaired, arches repaired - but I'd want to keep the tire track imprint scar on my right leg, it's kind of cool. I'd like to get repair of the nerve damage in my left arm. I'd like my skull returned to it's former integrity without plates or mesh - and I'd like that in natural bone, please. You know, it'd probably be easier to make a brainless clone and replace my whole body with a 15 year old duplicate.

I'd like to get some brain plug ins and tweaks including the reversal of brain damage. I'll take a neurotransmitter balancer, please. While we're at it, give me back some balance control and more use of my left hand.

I'd prefer biological upgrades just because I have a bit of experience with inorganic repair items - they have downsides you just don't think of before hand. Like there's this one titanium screw attaching my patellar tendon that is about a sixteenth of an inch or possibly less from the surface of my skin (hey, cool, you can see that it's a Philips head!) and if my leg gets chilled (I live in Michigan) I can feel the heat getting sucked out by the screw. It's like getting jabbed bone deep by an icy carpenter's nail. OK, now imagine a socket in your head - it doesn't seem like such a great idea in that context. I'd at least need a well insulated cover flap to it so I guess I'm not totally opposed to a few wires and sockets as long as my technician thinks about such things.

I'm pretty much up for any mod or upgrade though I wouldn't want the first run of any of them. I don't even buy the first model year of a car.

[lunarsolarpower]

I'm pretty much up for any mod or upgrade though I wouldn't want the first run of any of them.  I don't even buy the first model year of a car.

That's a great thought. For example retinal implants currently have extremely limited resolution (between 12-60 electrodes/pixels if I remember correctly) though there are better ones in the works. I personally think that dental implants integrated with fuel cells powered by blood glucose would be a really cool way to go cyborg. No one would even have to know you had a portable device on you. Think about it though, if your ipod, wireless access, and calculator were part of your anatomy, how would educational institutions deal with that? How would those without compete? I've seen the future and it's not gonna be cheap.

[halcyondays]

I'm up for pretty much anything. Wouldn't stick with biological for that long, that's all I know. Probably keep the human form for a while, but would likely start to experiment with other forms and go from there. Who knows, maybe someday we will discover we can convert our "consciousness into pure energy and remove physical bodies altogether, the possibilities are endless.

I would be a little iffy on the no sex organs thing, but if you have the technology to switch back and forth at will, I'm sure at some point you would move beyond animal instinct as you upgraded and it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

[kylyssa]

A gender flexible body would be cool.

[Centurion]

I bet you're interesting in bed :o All sorts of ideas in that head of yours

[garethnelsonuk]

My list of desired upgrades (using technology that's either already here or that already works in lab animals and therefore should work in humans soon):

Tissue regeneration (whole organs or limbs, works in lab rats and will probably be transferable to humans some time soon)
Embedded EEG interface to small PDA (questionable whether enough processing power could be carried in PDA, use for monitoring mental state, input data to PDA)
Glasses with HUD and camera
Wifi + GPS, GSM connection on PDA (for portable internet access and map navigation)
On/off switch (implant to put to sleep for x number of hours and then wake up - releasing appropiate chemicals into bloodstream, fairly simple to imlement right now)
Monitoring of concentration / other mental states via EEG, automated interventions programmable (i.e binaural audio on earphones, automated release of appropiate nutrients or drugs etc)

When it becomes safer or when i'm older:
Automated defibrillator / artificial heart (in many many decades time if there aren't methods to prevent my getting heart disease by then)
Laser eye surgery
Retinal implant instead of HUD
Direct interface to audio nerves instead of earphones
Direct electrode implant into motor cortex instead of EEG
Implant the PDA into my body somewhere

Rather than blood-glucose fuel cells standard batteries in an external rechargable pack can be used for anything that isn't vital to life

And I don't even call myself a transhumanist

[Reno]

You guys should watch the movies Ghost in the shell and GITS2. Those movies show some of the pros and cons to cybernetic modification.

[kylyssa]

Oooh, retinal implants (HUD) and wireless access to the internet - who knows, the communication equipment might be all you need in your body, processing power could be elsewhere.

[jc1991]

When/If it becomes possible, I'll probably go for a complete substrate change. (Which, for me, means a neuron by neuron uploading process.) My optimal substrate would be designed for safety and computational power, but not necessarily for everyday activity.

A modular avatar system sounds interesting for purposes of everyday social interaction and general “walking around.”

[Clifford Greenblatt]

How much alteration do you think you could undergo before you are no longer you but you become someone else?

[Centurion]

Now there's a cracker of a question. I'm pretty sure we could all write pages on philosophy, biology, and psychology and probably still not come to a universal consensus. The issue of self is probably one of the most complex and evasive issues you could encounter.

To pose a rediculously simple answer, I would still consider me to be myself so long as my personality, as has developed naturally throughout my lifetime has control over any artificial aspects such as enhanced cognition. This raises some thorny issues as enhanced cognition and ability will invariably influence personality, as does everyday social power in many cases. I will stick with my answer however. So long as my personality remains true to my development prior to alteration without any huge deviation, I am still me.

[mitkat]

Now there's a cracker of a question. I'm pretty sure we could all write pages on philosophy, biology, and psychology and probably still not come to a universal consensus. The issue of self is probably one of the most complex and evasive issues you could encounter.

To pose a rediculously simple answer, I would still consider me to be myself so long as my personality, as has developed naturally throughout my lifetime has control over any artificial aspects such as enhanced cognition. This raises some thorny issues as enhanced cognition and ability will invariably influence personality, as does everyday social power in many cases. I will stick with my answer however. So long as my personality remains true to my development prior to alteration without any huge deviation, I am still me.

Indeed...not to paraphrase, but you'll be you as long as you want to be you. (I think)

[lunarsolarpower]

How much alteration do you think you could undergo before you are no longer you but you become someone else?

What fraction of the molecules that make up your body can you replace with identical new ones before it's no longer you? I doubt there will ever be a determinable point where the "younit" as Ettinger calls it is replaced.

[halcyondays]

How much alteration do you think you could undergo before you are no longer you but you become someone else?

Why would you be someone else? Is a patient who has lost their memory still not themselves? They aren't the person they used to be but they are still themselves. You aren't the same person you were 5 years ago, or 10, or however many years you have been alive. People are constantly changing themselves and the entire idea of self isn't some static idea even if we think that is the case.

[Agarikon]

I'd want to retain my human form. I have a skeleton made of lightweight diamond (or stronger) compound. A heart that pumps more efficiently, blood that carries more oxygen, throughout my body and into brain that has more brain cells. Skin as strong as spiders silk that heals 5 times as fast. I'd like small sleek helmet to take on and off with eyes encircling so that I can have 360-degree peripheral vision.

I’d like muscles 10 times stronger that won’t ever deteriorate and never need exercising…oh but surely I will run through forests, jump boulders, climb jungle trees and swim the ocean for the glory of it all. I want the latest personal flyer jet pack that makes hovering a breeze.

Five or six times a year I’ll go to the center…to get transfers. After 2 hours I’m a virtuoso on the cello, piano and trumpet. I have read 25,000 books 100 times each, and I’m fluent in Japanese, Russian, Spanish and Latin.

[MichaelAnissimov]

Now there's a cracker of a question.

Like a question only a white guy would ask?

I am ok with pretty much every type of alteration, however if it some how involves the loss of my reproductive organs, that would be where I draw the line.

Embrace your future as a psychokinetic, levitating superpenis. Ironic how the reproductive organs have undergone the least change among body parts over the course of "evolution", and have therefore are in need of bringing up to date more than anything else.

[kylyssa]

How much alteration do you think you could undergo before you are no longer you but you become someone else?

Every second that I continue living I am changing, mentally, emotionally, and physically. It requires no artificial improvements for this to happen. A constantly changing evolving of self is what already exists. We can already grasp conscious control of this to some degree. I see transhumanism as taking as much control over the process as possible.

In the course of my overly eventful life I have experienced many deep changes most of them not of my choosing. In many ways they have radically altered me but in a powerful sense my kernel of "self" has remained. I am not a naive child but I am still Daddy's little girl and always will be. Physically, emotionally and mentally speaking, I am far more powerful than the toddler who played chess in Japan. Emotionally and mentally speaking I am far more powerful than the youth who fought her way off the streets. I have taken a rather major involuntary downgrade on my body and brain since then but I am still as much myself as anyone ever is through the passage of time.

I believe there's a far greater chance of erosion of self with losses rather than with upgrades. I suffered low self-esteem but what esteem I did have derived from my intelligence. When I was assaulted and experienced brain damage I woke to the world much slower, much more dull. I had to relearn how to cause my mouth to create speech and had to take gait training to walk without hitches. I continue to have small tics and the math savant, chess genius toddler is dead along with some of my spatial relations sense, perhaps forever. The first time the tiles on the wall didn't tell me their number without being counted I felt like I was in a nightmare. I felt absolutely lost and unable to connect with my previous self. In time I changed my focus and was forced to grow emotionally to adapt to my different and unimproved body and brain-body connection. I'm fine now, I'm me. I'm a more powerful and versatile version though I've lost processing power and structural integrity. This version of myself has confidence and self-esteem deriving from strength and stubbornness.

If a person chooses to cause deep positive changes physically and mentally, I believe she can easily adapt. She'll face none of the anger or grief or loss, she can just jump right in to the adaptation. I believe a new kind of freedom will come from having control over one's body and mind like never before. When people feel in control they feel less frightened and genuinely confident. Such people accomplish so much more and are much more fun to hang out with. They will change but it will be positive.

[kylyssa]

Soooooooo, if your penis were psychokinetic would it have a mind of its own?

[mitkat]

Soooooooo, if your penis were psychokinetic would it have a mind of its own?

What if it already does? *laughter*

Thanks folks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress! [thumb]

[the big b]

Embrace your future as a psychokinetic, levitating superpenis.    Ironic how the reproductive organs have undergone the least change among body parts over the course of "evolution", and have therefore are in need of bringing up to date more than anything else.

I've decided I don't want you put in charge of the reproductive alteration center. [lol]

I can't imagine the ego of a psychokinetic, levitating superpenis. The pure power would be too much to handle. I can think of nothing more devastating to mankind, as the wars started but such advanced beings could ultimately lead to our destruction.