15 replies to this topic

[tracer]

Has anyone got any take on which is better for fat-loss. The supp companies propaganda machines are running overtime again and for me it is very unclear. Any opinions?

[syr_]

They are different and the action is quite complex. In short, both may work in improving body composition, which one better could be individual response, though. Anyway, 7oxo has poor oral bioavailability, you should use a topical of it, like Ab-solved.

[Shepard]

Anyway, 7oxo has poor oral bioavailability, you should use a topical of it, like Ab-solved.

Do you know of anywhere that still has any stock left?

[scottl]

http://www.mindandmu...63

nutraplanet is good people and good service, and they have homebrew stuff.

[tracer]

To formulate a transdermal from the powder should be relatively simple.

You could use either DMSO or a Pleuronic Lecithin Organogel as a good transporter, failing which there are many Benzyl Alcohol/Ispopropyl Myristate based formulae.

Alternately, you could formulate a sublingual using Hydroxypropyl-Beta-Cyclodextrin. It may also be possible to make chewing gum out of it if you can find a gum base with a low melting point.

I reckon DHEA will also suffer from significant second pass elimination although I will have to check on that one... it should also complex with HPBCD easily.

Hence, I'm possibly going to make a little bit cof chewing-gum with both in it, and an aromatase inhibitor like formestane as well.

[syr_]

Do you know of anywhere that still has any stock left?

I have 2 bottles in stock

[brutale]

syr_,

you remarked that 7-oxo (= 7 keto?) dhea has poor oral bioavailability? My understanding is the ordinary DHEA has decent bioavailability -- check out the numerous studies of oral DHEA in various conditions on Pubmed.

Is 7 keto less bioavailable orally than DHEA?

Thanks.

[tracer]

I haven't checked, but in theory. DHEA is very similar in structure to the androgens (its two conversion steps away) and all non alpha-alkylated androgens of which I am aware are subject to very significant first-pass elimination unless they manage to piggy-back on lipids and enter the lymphatic system (a-la some prohormones). I will investigate this, but I'm not worried about this, since even if there are issues with oral bio-availability there are ways around it.

[vortexentity]

If I recall correctly 7OXO is competitive for a certain rate limited enzymes as required for the formation of cortisol. It seems that this is one of the reasons it helps with weight loss better than regular DHEA. Not much is required to be effective. I ran out of my stock and my weight loss has certainly tapered off. It was going much faster when I was taking the 20mg size 7OXO I purchased on closeout last year.

I also think it made me a bit sharper than normal. It is slightly neurostimulating and hormone ballancing as well as aiding in fat loss IMHO.

[starr]

If I recall correctly 7OXO is competitive for a certain rate limited enzymes as required for the formation of cortisol. It seems that this is one of the reasons it helps with weight loss better than regular DHEA. Not much is required to be effective. I ran out of my stock and my weight loss has certainly tapered off. It was going much faster when I was taking the 20mg size 7OXO I purchased on closeout last year.

I also think it made me a bit sharper than normal. It is slightly neurostimulating and hormone ballancing as well as aiding in fat loss IMHO.

How do you feel now that you're off of it? I was taking regular DHEA for a couple of months and as soon as I stopped my blood pressure got very low and I felt really tired.

[vortexentity]

I ran out of the 7OXO and have not found an affordable source for it as yet. The effect was purely one of less weight loss and a little less of the mental sharpness I had been experiencing. I did find and start taking Pregnenolone in place of the 7OXO and it is not quite the same but does seem to help. It is the immediate precursor of DHEA and several other neurosteroid type chemicals.

[syr_]

syr_,

you remarked that 7-oxo (= 7 keto?) dhea has poor oral bioavailability?  My understanding is the ordinary DHEA has decent bioavailability -- check out the numerous studies of oral DHEA in various conditions on Pubmed.

Is 7 keto less bioavailable orally than DHEA?

Yes, 7oxo = 7-keto.
And, yes, normal DHEA has good bioavailabilty, altough for high doses a transdermal delivery is preferred.

[macanizer]

bump

Any good source for the topical 7-oxo? I ordered Avant Labs' Ab-Solved but got an email saying they're out of stock. Everywhere else I've looked says it's discontinued.

[Shepard]

http://www.1fast400....roducts_id=1197

[edward]

Seems to me that with hormones one should be getting a blood test to determine the amount of DHEA one is actually producing and then tailor your supplementation to bringing levels to that of say a 21 year old. Too much DHEA has to go somewhere metabolically (converted to progesterone, testosterone etc.) and supplementing it could throw things out of whack. Personally I would want only the amount of DHEA that is needed and definitely no more as I am not a fan of gross hormonal imbalances, been there done that and its not fun. If you have insurance and a reasonable doctor, lab tests should be cheap and are well worth the time to find out what you need and what you don't need. Randomly supplementing hormones like you would non toxic vitamins is a recipe for disaster.

[tracer]

Oooohhh... testosterone....

Kloggg get hyooooooge!