37 replies to this topic

[xanadu]

On second thought, it could be done on the outside of a spherical mold. Then you could make your grid all in one piece. That would be a better tec. But then how would you get the inner grid inside? Perhaps make the inner grid first, put it inside the mold for the outer grid and make the outer grid? But then how to precisely align the two grids? This is an example of an engineering problem. You usually have to compromise in one area to get what you want in another area.

[jc1991]

The two grids have to be seperate parts, in order to keep current from flowing from one to the other. You generally build two arms from a nonconducting material, suspend the outer grid by one arm from the vacuum chamber, and suspend the inner grid from the outer one via the other arm. This is why using hoops is relatively easy once apart from actually putting the hoops together; it's very easy to align everything if you plan ahead and cut holes in the right places.

[treonsverdery]

A fun detector possibility might be using the emission spectra of ionized helium. At the start of your process you'll measure just a hydrogen spectra. As the accelerated nuclei fuse they will make helium or Li which has a different emissive spectra, You could have a pair of electrodes on the side to make the glow however rare n dim, for hours, then pass the light to a photodetector or even gradually image film behind a spectrum filter. If you've made helium or Li you will have more definitive proof than a noisy geiger. You can try various grid voltages n patterns to find what most rapidly produces a detectable helium spectrum. You might read http://scientificson...s=spectrum tube to think about different element spectrum tubes



The stupid idea of the most recent few minutes is to use the nonsymetric nature of a Deuterium 29.99 spectrum tube to create your grids outside the vacuum then massively upward adjust the voltage but use pulses rather than continuous current to keep the glass thing from melting. wrap a metal electrode around the neck flare then put another sleeve on the tube. at high enough voltages the atoms will move n collide. The number of electrodes n geometry is up to you. Its obvious but your pulsatile fusion grid power supply differs from the emission spectra power supply. I've noted that High frequency high voltage power supplies are used to create electrodeless light emission from glow tubes.

With a fool's confidence you could try crimping the fat parts of the spectrum tube or bending the channel with a propane torch. the odds that a vacuum tube won't shatter or contract on torchwork are minimal but I haven't tried. It might be a plus. If you practice on a few radio tubes first then risk a few 29.99 deuterium spectrum tubes you might make a V shape with two acceleration arms pushing D ions to the base of the V.

Edited by treonsverdery, 06 December 2006 - 03:54 AM.

[xanadu]

The two grids have to be seperate parts, in order to keep current from flowing from one to the other.

No kidding

You generally build two arms from a nonconducting material, suspend the outer grid by one arm from the vacuum chamber, and suspend the inner grid from the outer one via the other arm.

Or you could have the grids resting on supports on the bottom of the chamber. Hanging the grids mean they will sway with any vibration. I would want at least two supports either hanging or sitting or both.

This is why using hoops is relatively easy once apart from actually putting the hoops together; it's very easy to align everything if you plan ahead and cut holes in the right places.

Hoops the same size will have to be cut or where they intersect will cause distortions. If using different sized hoops that might work but you still have to align them precisely. My method of electroplating the sphere and etching out your grid allows precise shapes with absolutely minimal distortion. But, let us know how you do with the hoops.

treon, that is a good idea but then you need a spectrograph

The stupid idea of the most recent few minutes is to use the nonsymetric nature of a Deuterium 29.99 spectrum tube to create your grids outside the vacuum then massively upward adjust the voltage but use pulses rather than continuous current to keep the glass thing from melting. wrap a metal electrode around the neck flare then put another sleeve on the tube. at high enough voltages the atoms will move n collide. The number of electrodes n geometry is up to you. Its obvious but your pulsatile fusion grid power supply differs from the emission spectra power supply. I've noted that High frequency  high voltage power supplies are used to create electrodeless light emission from glow tubes.

You have lost me here. In what way does the De spectum tube become a grid when it's outside the vacuum? Are you saying to put high voltage on it in hopes fusion will take place? You need really a lot of acceleration to get fusion and I don't see how it would happen here. If you explained your idea in more detail maybe it would be clearer. You want to use high voltage AC? Explain yourself. No idea is stupid but not all of them will work.

You can buy metal plating kits with all the chemicals and electrodes you need. You can also buy power supplies for it. You would want the correct alloy if you are going to manufacture your own grids. Pure copper might be too soft. This route is for those who want a precisely shaped grid. If the hoops don't work for you, this is another way to go. jc, what shape are you trying for with your grids?

[jc1991]

Or you could have the grids resting on supports on the bottom of the chamber. Hanging the grids mean they will sway with any vibration. I would want at least two supports either hanging or sitting or both.

I use the word "suspend" in the loosest sense. At whichever point the grids are attached, they will have to be tightly attached to prevent movement.

Any single point suspension is inherently more likely to vibrate, and any multiple point suspension is inherently more likely to have problems with conductivity. (Multiple points also get in the way of moving particles.)

[treonsverdery]

that is a good idea but then you need a spectrograph
depending on notions of quality a diffraction grating with a sufficiently sized chamber n film or photodetector is a thought

QUOTE
The stupid idea of the most recent few minutes is to use the nonsymetric nature of a Deuterium 29.99 spectrum tube to create your grids outside the vacuum then massively upward adjust the voltage but use pulses rather than continuous current to keep the glass thing from melting. wrap a metal electrode around the neck flare then put another sleeve on the tube. at high enough voltages the atoms will move n collide. The number of electrodes n geometry is up to you. Its obvious but your pulsatile fusion grid power supply differs from the emission spectra power supply. I've noted that High frequency high voltage power supplies are used to create electrodeless light emission from glow tubes.



You have lost me here. In what way does the De spectum tube become a grid when it's outside the vacuum

I've seen electrodeless quartz Hg vapor tubes glow when placed near high frequency high voltage power sources. Also old flashlamps have an outside the tube center electrode to provide a charge gradient to start ionization like Thus my thought you can make ions accelerate with outside the tube voltage

[xanadu]

Any single point suspension is inherently more likely to vibrate, and any multiple point suspension is inherently more likely to have problems with conductivity. (Multiple points also get in the way of moving particles.)

Why would multiple point suspension or support give problems with conductivity? You have to have a firm solid support for your grids or you will have movement. Movement means no tight focus.

I've seen electrodeless quartz Hg vapor tubes glow when placed near high frequency high voltage power sources. Also old flashlamps have an outside the tube center electrode to provide a charge gradient to start ionization like user posted image Thus my thought you can make ions accelerate with outside the tube voltage

Sure, you can make them glow but how do you go from that to fusion? Also, bending tubes with gas in them leads to the gas expanding and causing the glass to swell when heated. What jc is trying to do is get high energy collisions between ions so that they fuse. I don't know if he can do it with this setup but it seems possible.

If you have a perfectly spherical mold you can make perfectly (almost) spherical grids. Hoops have to be bent or cut to form a grid. jc, what shape grid are you trying for? I would think geodesic would be good. How large are the openings in your grid design? Make a sphere on top of a wax mold and you have something like a christmas tree ornament. Draw with the grease pen your design for a grid, etch away the excess metal and you can create a precisely spherical grid shape. If there are large enough openings you can insert your smaller grid. I'm still not sure of the best way to align them.

[jc1991]

Why would multiple point suspension or support give problems with conductivity?

Conductivity problems as in there's more likely to be a problem with conductive supports. That in and of itself is very unlikely to occur, of course.