4 replies to this topic

[impulsive]

Arent DMAE, Huperzine A, Lecithin, ALCAR, Centrophenoxine, Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline

ALL affect Cholinergics?

I know Wikipedia isnt a great source but, It does have some good information?

Cholinergic nootropics include acetylcholine precursors and cofactors, and acetylcholinesterase inhibitors:

So...

DMAE: precursor
Lecithin: precursor
ALCAR: Precursor
Centrophenoxine: Drug/Precursor?
Alpha-GPC: precursor
CDP-Choline: precursor

Huperzine A: Is the only inhibitor?

Vitamin B5: Is the only cofactor?

So, my question is, why are people taking so many precursors? Is Choline that important? Or do each do a certain/different thing?

Im reading threads of people taking Centropheoxine, Alpha-GPC, DMAE and ALCAR?

Wouldnt that be considered overload?

[tothepoint]

Bump

[stargazer]

Well the reason people take all these supplements is because they erronously think that it'll make them smarter (which they won't). AlCAR and possibly Alpha-gpc is the only thing I can see being worth taking, but that's just barely. If you want to become more focused and/or have better short term memory and enhance rote learning I would suggest methylphenidate and modafinil for some real effects. Unfortunately if you already have above average cognitive abilities it's more than likely you will not experience any positive effect (except the profound wellbeing of methylphenidate) in cognitive functioning. In fact, you may actually decrease your intellectual capacity. There's not one proven nootropic to date except possibly modafinil, but it does not excert a strong effect.

I think most people here on this forum got everything backwards when it comes to cognitive enhancement. It's very unlikely that increasing or decreasing certain neurotransmitters will at all enhance performance if one does not already have a chemical imbalance. Infact I believe that tinkering with these mechanisms is a dead end, period. However, that's not to say that cognitive enhancement is not possible, it's just not possible through swallowing a pill (yet). If you're seriously want to become more intelligent, as in raise iq scores, become better at math, increase your reasoning skills you should use your brain's built in ability to rewire itself, i.e brain plasticity. Increasing your brain plasticity through various means combined with scientific mental training may perhaps profoundly increase your intelligence *permanently*.

There are newly released books that dwelve into this topic. I suggest you read "The Brain that Changes itself" by Norman Doidge M.D and look up Cogmed working memory training. The creator, Torkel Klingberg, newly released a book here in sweden called "The overflooded brain: a book about working memory, iq and the rising information flood" where he explains his new research where working memory training increased general intelligence by 8-10% in children with ADHD and in *normal young adults*.

[dopamine]

Arent DMAE, Huperzine A, Lecithin, ALCAR, Centrophenoxine, Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline

ALL affect Cholinergics?

I know Wikipedia isnt a great source but, It does have some good information?

Cholinergic nootropics include acetylcholine precursors and cofactors, and acetylcholinesterase inhibitors:

So...

DMAE: precursor
Lecithin: precursor
ALCAR: Precursor
Centrophenoxine: Drug/Precursor?
Alpha-GPC: precursor
CDP-Choline: precursor

Huperzine A: Is the only inhibitor?

Vitamin B5: Is the only cofactor?

So, my question is, why are people taking so many precursors? Is Choline that important? Or do each do a certain/different thing?

Im reading threads of people taking Centropheoxine, Alpha-GPC, DMAE and ALCAR?

Wouldnt that be considered overload?

DMAE is a choline precursor, but does not substantially increase synthesis of acetylcholine in the brain. Further, DMAE competes with choline for uptake into the brain, and may have some anticholinergic effects.

Lecithin is a delivery form of phosphatidylcholine, along with various other phospholipid conjugates, and has shown some effectiveness in hepatic disease and impairment characterized by high lipid level buildup in the liver. The neurological effects have not been well-researched, but conjecture exists that such supplementation could raise levels of PC in the brain, and thus increase acetylcholine levels.

ALCAR, aka acetylcarnitine, is not a precursor to choline, but rather is an acetylated form of the amino acid carnitine, which has some structural similarity to acetylcholine. Some research has suggested that ALCAR may mimic the effect of acetylcholine as an agonist in cholinergic neurons.

Alpha GPC aka Choline Alfoscerate is a substance derived from phospholipids, and research indicates that is serves as a precursor to acetylcholine, as well as other experimental cognitive neurological effects.

Huperzine A is an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, i.e. it prolongs the effect of acetylcholine on cholinergic receptors, but does not raise the level of acetylcholine in pre-synaptic neurons.

Vitamin B5 is a cofactor, among others, in the formation of acetylcholine.

[rabagley]

Dozepenil (Aricept) was given to healthy older pilots and resulted in significantly improved simulator performance. L-Huperzine A seems to have much the same chemical effect on the same control function (acetylcholinesterase inhibition) and may therefore also allow for improved learning.

However, I agree that reading and deliberate learning of new and varied skills are likely to have a much more significant effect than any nutrient or pharmaceutical.

This is actually what Adrafinil has helped me do. By providing me with a longer daily period of alertness and useful focus, I have more time to exercise my brain. The rest of my mix of brain chemicals is mostly/entirely neuroprotective (deprenyl, etc.)