62 replies to this topic

[mitkat]

I want to respond to your post in full, but I'm about to leave - and you bring up some good points as I'd done some research into preservatives, but for now:

What do you think Mitkat? A DIY chyawanprash? Sounds like a good project for you. Don't forget to take pictures! ;-)

[thumb] [thumb] We've got the technology...and I like taking pictures of makin' things!

[mitkat]

>  I'm one of the cool kids - added one tablespoon of Chyawanprash.

Unfortunately chyawanprash is pretty high in sugar and to get real benefits you need to eat quite a bit (say at least 2 rounded tablespoons a day.) Also, the Dabur brand has some preservatives, etc. that may not be all that great. Here's a link to an organic chyawanprash by Bayan Botanicals:

http://www.banyan-bo...aitem=1&mitem=1

Still high in sugar though and not cheap. Traditional Indian medicine loves to use lots of sugar and ghee - makes their medicine pretty tasty. Traditional Chinese medicine on the other hand taste awful. I think that is actually the key to Chinese medicine - it taste so bad that you never ever want to get sick again.

Probably one could make their own chyawanprash since the basic ingredients are enumerated in the old ayuvedic texts. Couldn't be too hard with the availability of many of the ingredients in bulk...and you could cut way back on the sugar. What do you think Mitkat? A DIY chyawanprash? Sounds like a good project for you. Don't forget to take pictures! ;-)

It is indeed high in sugar - and is really my only significant source of sugar whatsoever, as I don't even consume much fruit besides berries. I was okay with the potassium sorbate being used in the Dabur brand because it's a mild, non-toxic preservative. One tablespoon is all I'm going to take for a while, see how I feelkindathing. Yep. I would much prefer the organic bayan botanicals brand for sure, but I'll share some cost information here.

Bayan 9.4oz = $19.99
Dabur 35.3oz = $8.09

Is this price a good enough trade-off for taking a non-organic blend of so many different plants? It's a toss up, especially knowing what I know of certain international horticultural practices. But I am a poor student, let's not mince words....we'll see how this goes

ps. I'm done school in 20 sweet days, so I'll think more about blending up some craziness then. I won't forget!

[u290]

Mitkat, I checked your list of supplements. it is really expensive stuff.

[mitkat]

Mitkat, I checked your list of supplements. it is really expensive stuff.

Is it? The only things of substantial cost are the AOR products which are totally necessary. What's jumping out at you?

edit: The full serving of Orthocore and Orthominerals is something like 7 caps? I don't take that many and get more bang for my buck over a longer period of time.

Edited by mitkat, 12 March 2007 - 05:02 AM.

[u290]

Tim, both my partner and I have noticed a significant different in the condition of out nails after using biosil. I now have to cut my nail almost weekly.

Zoolander, did you notice change in your skin after taking Biosil?

[u290]

Mitkat, I checked your list of supplements. it is really expensive stuff.

Is it? The only things of substantial cost are the AOR products which are totally necessary. What's jumping out at you?

edit: The full serving of Orthocore and Orthominerals is something like 7 caps? I don't take that many and get more bang for my buck over a longer period of time.

Exactly! While AOR is a very good brand (I use AOR Essential Mix myself), it is professional and expensive - your list is worth of CDN $180 (based on a canadian site I use to get AOR supplements in Canada) plus the cost rest.
AOR Orthocore, 463mg - C$52.78
AOR Taurine, 675 mg - C$16.88
AOR Vegetarian Booster, 731mg - C$29.99
AOR Ortho-Mineral, 900mg - C$28.48
AOR Total E, weekly (placed with fat containing meals) - C$41.38

So you have to budget CAD$200-CAD$250 right?
Isn't there any alternative like multivitamin formula?

I also looked at AOR ingredients:
Orthocore is a multivitamin and it has vitamin E. AOR says about Orthocore "...include the presence of the complete E-complex". Why do you need Total E?
Orthominerals and Orthocore overlap as well etc.

Have you thought of your protocol optimization? is it optimized?
Looks like your ration is well thought out, but based on the product lables I got the impression that it is a bit excessive.

Why do you use many products that overlap?

[mitkat]

Mitkat, I checked your list of supplements. it is really expensive stuff.

Is it? The only things of substantial cost are the AOR products which are totally necessary. What's jumping out at you?

edit: The full serving of Orthocore and Orthominerals is something like 7 caps? I don't take that many and get more bang for my buck over a longer period of time.

Exactly! While AOR is a very good brand (I use AOR Essential Mix myself), it is professional and expensive - your list is worth of CDN $180 (based on a canadian site I use to get AOR supplements in Canada) plus the cost rest.
AOR Orthocore, 463mg - C$52.78
AOR Taurine, 675 mg - C$16.88
AOR Vegetarian Booster, 731mg - C$29.99
AOR Ortho-Mineral, 900mg - C$28.48
AOR Total E, weekly (placed with fat containing meals) - C$41.38

So you have to budget CAD$200-CAD$250 right?
Isn't there any alternative like multivitamin formula?

I also looked at AOR ingredients:
Orthocore is a multivitamin and it has vitamin E. AOR says about Orthocore "...include the presence of the complete E-complex". Why do you need Total E?
Orthominerals and Orthocore overlap as well etc.

Have you thought of your protocol optimization? is it optimized?
Looks like your ration is well thought out, but based on the product lables I got the impression that it is a bit excessive.

Why do you use many products that overlap?

As I've mentioned, I don't take full daily doses of any of the Ortho products. I take Total E once a week, the taurine from AOR is one of the cheaper brands available suprisingly, vegetarian booster I don't often take the daily dose of three pills a day. These products are indeed expensive, but I take into account the vitamin, mineral and phytonutrient content of my food and don't ever stress over meeting RDVs through a pill My diet is more important than my supplements, and I make the AOR products last - I optimize that hizzy.

[mitkat]

Got some bloodwork done, more coming on the way - it's been a while since I've had this done (or posted anything here for that matter).




I'm looking forward to hearing some feedback, although limited info here. Should be getting endocrinal and adrenal test back in a few weeks.

[zoolander]

Apart from having a low HDL cholesterol level, which effects your TC/HDL ratio you looking good matey. Your a healthy man. Just need to push that HDL up.

My bloodwork always comes back looking good as well. I do have mild neutropenia (ideopathic) that I cannot seem to get my head around.

Anyhow, Timbo, good news with the blood work matey and it's good to see that you still alive

[mitkat]

Thanks Zoo...that's awesome to hear. I'll start looking into something to raise my HDL...and it takes a lot more than a longboarding accident to stop me

[zoolander]

There are a few threads floating around that discussing raising HDL levels.

[health_nutty]

Thanks Zoo...that's awesome to hear. I'll start looking into something to raise my HDL...and it takes a lot more than a longboarding accident to stop me

Look into Cocoa, tomato, and olive oil.

[mitkat]

Updated! It's been quite a while, added skin care routine info and oral health info. Going to tackle a major update soon.

[mitkat]

Chyawanprash is a scam. I am surprised that some people here are actually using it.

lol...post evidence

[ajnast4r]

Chyawanprash is a scam. I am surprised that some people here are actually using it.

that is PURELY opinion... so unless you have evidence otherwise, you shouldnt say things like that here.

Title
Inhibitory Effects of Maharishi-4 [MAK-4] and Maharishi-5 [MAK-5] on Microsomal Lipid Peroxidation

Publication
Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior, Vol. 39, No. 3, pp. 649-652, 1991.

Authors
Chandradhar Dwivedi,* Hari M. Sharma,** Stacy Dobrowski,* and Ferzaan N. Engineer.*

Conducted at
**College of Pharmacy, South Dakota State University, Brookings, SD
**College of Medicine, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH

Summary
The effects of Maharishi-4 (MAK-4) and Maharishi-5 (MAK-5) on microsomal lipid peroxidation were examined in vitro. Rat liver microsomes were incubated with an NADPH-generating system or with sodium ascorbate and an ADP-iron complex to stimulate enzymatic or nonenzymatic lipid peroxidation, respectively. Alcoholic or aqueous extracts of MAK-4 or MAK-5, when added to these incubation systems, inhibited hepatic microsomal lipid peroxidation in a concentration-dependent manner. The aqueous extract of MAK-4 was the most effective antiperoxidant in these systems. A 10% (w/v) aqueous extract of MAK-4 inhibited ascorbate or NADPH-induced lipid peroxidation by approximately 50% when added at volumes of 8 microliters and 3.5 microliters, respectively, to the incubation mixtures (total incubation volume, 2 mL). These findings suggest that MAK-4 and MAK-5, by virtue of their antioxidant properties, may be useful in the treatment of free radical-linked drug toxicities and disease states.

Title
Effect of Maharishi 4 [MAK-4] and Maharishi 5 [MAK-5] on Inflammatory Mediators—With Special Reference to Their Free Radical Scavenging Effect

Publication
Indian Journal of Clinical Practice, Vol. 1, No. 8, pp. 23-27, January 1991.

Author
Yukie Niwa.

Conducted at
Niwa Institute for Immunology, Japan

Summary
Maharishi 4 (MAK-4) and Maharishi 5 (MAK-5) were investigated for their effects on human neutrophil chemotaxis, phagocytosis, reactive oxygen species (ROS) generation, and lymphocyte response to mitogens. The effect on ROS generated in a xanthine-xanthine oxidase system was also tested. Chemotaxis was significantly inhibited in the presence of MAK-4 and phagocytosis was slightly decreased in the presence of both MAK-4 and MAK-5. MAK-4 and MAK-5 markedly decreased superoxide, hydrogen peroxide, and hydroxyl radicals, generated both in the neutrophil and xanthine-xanthine oxidase systems. These two herbal mixtures also significantly reduced lymphocyte blastogenesis stimulated by the mitogens phytohemagglutinin, concanavalin A, and pokeweed mitogen. This study suggests that the empirical effectiveness of these two natural products in a variety of diseases is due to their suppressive effect on inflammatory mediators, especially on potent ROS.

i wont post all 22 of them.. ill let you read through them yourself:
http://mapi.com/en/r...ntioxidant.html


more:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum
Penza M, Montani C, Jeremic M, Mazzoleni G, Hsiao WL, Marra M, Sharma H, Di Lorenzo D.

Laboratory of Biotechnology, Civic Hospital of Brescia, Brescia, Italy. marialetiziapenza@inwind.it <marialetiziapenza@inwind.it>

BACKGROUND: Maharishi Amrit Kalash (MAK) is an herbal formulation composed of two herbal mixtures, MAK-4 and MAK-5. These preparations are part of a natural health care system from India, known as Maharishi Ayur-Veda. MAK-4 and MAK-5 are each composed of different herbs and are said to have maximum benefit when used in combination. This investigation evaluated the cancer inhibiting effects of MAK-4 and MAK-5, in vitro and in vivo. METHODS: In vitro assays: Aqueous extracts of MAK-4 and MAK-5 were tested for effects on ras induced cell transformation in the Rat 6 cell line assessed by focus formation assay. In vivo assays: Urethane-treated mice were put on a standard pellet diet or a diet supplemented with MAK-4, MAK-5 or both. At 36 weeks, livers were examined for tumors, sera for oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC), and liver homogenates for enzyme activities of glutathione peroxidase (GPX), glutathione-S-transferase (GST), and NAD(P)H: quinone reductase (QR). Liver fragments of MAK-fed mice were analyzed for connexin (cx) protein expression. RESULTS: MAK-5 and a combination of MAK-5 plus MAK-4, inhibited ras-induced cell transformation. In MAK-4, MAK-5 and MAK4+5-treated mice we observed a 35%, 27% and 46% reduction in the development of urethane-induced liver nodules respectively. MAK-4 and MAK4+5-treated mice had a significantly higher ORAC value (P < 0.05) compared to controls (200.2 +/- 33.7 and 191.6 +/- 32.2 vs. 152.2 +/- 15.7 ORAC units, respectively). The urethane-treated MAK-4, MAK-5 and MAK4+5-fed mice had significantly higher activities of liver cytosolic enzymes compared to the urethane-treated controls and to untreated mice: GPX(0.23 +/- 0.08, 0.21 +/- 0.05, 0.25 +/- 0.04, 0.20 +/- 0.05, 0.21 +/- 0.03 U/mg protein, respectively), GST (2.0 +/- 0.4, 2.0 +/- 0.6, 2.1 +/- 0.3, 1.7 +/- 0.2, 1.7 +/- 0.2 U/mg protein, respectively) and QR (0.13 +/- 0.02, 0.12 +/- 0.06, 0.15 +/- 0.03, 0.1 +/- 0.04, 0.11 +/- 0.03 U/mg protein, respectively). Livers of MAK-treated mice showed a time-dependent increased expression of cx32. CONCLUSION: Our results show that a MAK-supplemented diet inhibits liver carcinogenesis in urethane-treated mice. The prevention of excessive oxidative damage and the up-regulation of connexin expression are two of the possible effects of these products.

[mitkat]

To assume chyawanprash is a scam because it a doesn't come hermetically sealed from a lab after years of costly research or contains some raw ingredients is more opinion than anything. This is research done by an ancient medical system hundreds of years ago, and as ajna entirely proved, that research is being recreated in a modern scientific environment that should be objective enough for anyone.

I take amla also, btw - I just haven't updated it on this regime (although it's in the vitamin c poll). AOR is doing some great work bringing ayurvedic herbs to the forefront of supplement discussion!

[mitkat]

Added hemp hearts and maca as foods I've been eating (mixed in small organic yogurt) pretty much every day for 3 months...definitely feeling a boost from the maca.

[mitkat]

I've decided to leave up my older regime for interest, and to post my more recent one in a new reply. Here we go:


Upon Rising:
2x AOR Orthocore
1x AOR Advanced B Complex
Vitamin D3, 1000 IU
Amla, 950mg (Emblica officinalis extract)
6mg Biosil Liquid
Chocomine, 500mg
Benfotiamine, 150mg
Blueberry concentrate, 500mg (Vaccinium corymbosom, 2.5% anthocyanins)
Cinnulin PF, 150mg (Cinnamomum cassia 20:1 extract)
1x AOR Mag Malate Renew, 870mg


Avec Lunch:
2x AOR Orthocore
1x AOR Advanced B Complex
R-ALA, 100mg
Ester-C, 500mg
Ascorbyl Palmitate, 500mg
1x Oat Beta-Glucans, 600mg
Country Life Resveratrol
GliSODin, 100mg
Lactoferrin, 250mg
1x Immune Renew ('shroom blend)
1x Ultimate Digest Enzyme Blend


With Dinner:
1x AOR Orthocore
1x Advanced B Complex
Benfotiamine, 150mg
Vitamin D3, 1000 IU
Boron, 3mg
1x AOR Cardio Mag 2.0
L-Carnosine, 500mg
Cinnulin PF, 150mg (Cinnamomum cassia 20:1 extract)
R-ALA, 100mg
Siberian Ginseng, 650mg (Eleutherococcus senticosus, 45:1 extract)
2x 500mg Taurine
2x 500mg Evening Primrose Oil
1 teaspoon Ascenta Fish Oil


Before Bed:
1x Melatonin, 750mcg Time Released
1/4 teaspoon of Now Foods GABA (on occasion)
1 teaspoon Inulin


Foods consumed every day:
Steel-cut oats for breakfast (Idea from Shepard) - I've been pretty good about this, so I take beta-glucans in the afternoon
Dried blueberries (handfull)
3-4 Kalamata olives
1-2 Tablespoon organic salsa (good lycopene source)
Ever-changing variety of salads (no iceberg lettuce)
Organic soy milk/cheese
Tomatos
Green and red peppers
Small amount of tumeric and ginger in dishes
Quinoa (2-3x a week)
85% Cocoa chocolate
Large glasses of water
1 Tblspn Hemp hearts
1 Tblspn Maca (Lepidium peruvianum)
Raw blueberry juices (Pure Vaccinium corymbosom where possible)
Couple brazil nuts


Teas:
Morning, with breakfast - Blueberry white tea (local source, loose leaf)
Mid-day - Yogi Tea Green Chai
Evening - Rooibos Chai

I switch up brands of tea now and again, as my fancy is often tickled by such things.


Training Days:
I have various protein mixes from trueprotein.com that I take depending on what I'm up to. I also am taking a teaspoon of beta-alanine, bulk taurine (1-2 grams) and 2x NOW Creatine Monohydrate, 750mg around workouts. Looking to add an interesting CHO source for post-WO.


In stainless steel water bottle consumed during working hours (Mon-Fri, 7am-3pm):
500mg SISU Ester-C Supreme powder
Liquid Vitamin D3 800 IU


Taken as needed/non-daily:
1x Jarrow Methyl B-12 1000 Lozenge , weekly
1x Jarrow FamilE, twice weekly


Major changes:
No more AOR veggie booster...ouch. I liked this product as it targeted some of my needs directly.
No more NAC
No more aged garlic for the moment

Cutting down on some costs and getting into some different products, focusing a bit more on AGE breaking over the next few months and will see how I feel. Really trying to rip down what I had going and build it up again, not to be overdramatic. YEAH!


Skin Care Routine:
Alpha Hydrox foaming face wash - gentle cleanser
Retinoid use: alternating between tretinoin (.1%) and tazarotene (.1%) every other night, and none on the weekends.
La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL Fluide Extreme sunscreen
La Roche-Posay Antherpos sunscreen for luscious lips...oh nyes
Jamieson CoQ10 Moisturizer with added Anti-Oxidant Booster from Skin Actives

Shout to fredrik on the skin care tip!


Oral Care:
I rotate toothpastes as such:
Dessert Essence Toothpaste, contains xyltiol, kelp.
Jason Tea Tree Healthy Mouth Toothpaste
Dr. Ken's Maximum Care Toothpaste

Oral-B alcohol free mouthwash and Biotene mouthwash, also rotated.

LifeMirage-style Info:
Knotty Boy dreadlock shampoo. One of the best products I can use on my hair.

I'm looking to incorporate SAM-e also. Suggestions?

Edited by mitkat, 06 May 2008 - 12:02 AM.

[Shepard]

I'm looking to incorporate SAM-e also. Suggestions?

Just look for one that's blister-packed. Although, I think AOR states that their product doesn't require blister-packing. I take 400mg/day with various other methylation-related supplements. It's more a dose based on my gut feeling for long-term supplementation (non-medicating) more than anything else.

Have you noticed any loss of the effects of chocamine from daily dosing?

[krillin]

Ascorbyl palmitate gets slammed badly in this paper. Topically harmful, orally no better than plain old ascorbic acid.

Vitamin C Derivative Ascorbyl Palmitate Promotes Ultraviolet-B-Induced Lipid Peroxidation and Cytotoxicity in Keratinocytes

Although ascorbyl palmitate is also available as an oral supplement, most of the compound is probably hydrolyzed to ascorbic acid and palmitic acid in the digestive tract before absorption (DeRitter, 1951).

[mitkat]

Ascorbyl palmitate gets slammed badly in this paper. Topically harmful, orally no better than plain old ascorbic acid.

Vitamin C Derivative Ascorbyl Palmitate Promotes Ultraviolet-B-Induced Lipid Peroxidation and Cytotoxicity in Keratinocytes

Although ascorbyl palmitate is also available as an oral supplement, most of the compound is probably hydrolyzed to ascorbic acid and palmitic acid in the digestive tract before absorption (DeRitter, 1951).

Interesting study, but I am interested in having a fat soluble form of vitamin c regardless if it has no more potency than ascorbic acid. Topically I have many other things I would use first. Do you have an opinion on it's fat solubility MOA?

[niner]

Although ascorbyl palmitate is also available as an oral supplement, most of the compound is probably hydrolyzed to ascorbic acid and palmitic acid in the digestive tract before absorption (DeRitter, 1951).

Interesting study, but I am interested in having a fat soluble form of vitamin c regardless if it has no more potency than ascorbic acid. Topically I have many other things I would use first. Do you have an opinion on it's fat solubility MOA?

Nothing special about the mechanism of its fat solubility; when you hang a long hydrocarbon chain off of the ascorbic acid molecule, it changes the hydrophobicity of the molecule. It's just the principle of "like dissolves like". The actual mechanism of it is an entropic effect; putting the hydrocarbon part in water causes an ordering of the water molecules in the near vicinity of the hydrocarbon chain, thus decreasing the entropy and thereby raising the free energy of the system. When the hydrocarbon is in lipid, the free energy of the water/lipid/palmitate system is lowered, so it's more stable. I don't know exactly how stable that ester linkage is, but esters are not known for high stability. They can be cleaved either chemically or enzymatically.

[krillin]

Interesting study, but I am interested in having a fat soluble form of vitamin c regardless if it has no more potency than ascorbic acid.

As Niner said, it's only fat-soluble until the palmitate group gets cleaved off in digestion. I suppose you could shoot up with it like in this study and hope that too much doesn't get into the skin. (The same goes for tocopheryl succinate. All those in vitro studies showing a unique anti-cancer effect are nearly worthless, since it gets absorbed as tocopherol.)

J Physiol Pharmacol. 2005 Sep;56 Suppl 4:197-201.
Stability of ascorbyl palmitate molecule in the rat brain.
Pokorski M, Marczak M.
Department of Respiratory Research, Medical Research Center, Polish Academy of Science, Warsaw, Poland. mpokorski@cmdik.pan.pl

Recent investigations have shown the ability of ascorbyl palmitate (AP), a bioactive, lipid-soluble ester of ascorbic acid (AA), to penetrate neural tissues. This study seeks to determine the occurrence of hydrolysis of AP molecule in brain tissue, which could rather point to the action of AA alone carried over the biological barrier and then released from the AP compound. The integrity of AP molecule was examined qualitatively in the rat brain by thin-layer-chromatography. AP was injected into an internal carotid artery in a dose of 75 mg per rat after tying off the common and external carotid arteries at the same side. The rats were sacrificed 15 min later, the brain tissue was extracted with chloroform/methanol and chromatographed. The AP bands plated from the samples ipsilateral to the injection side strictly corresponded to the AP standard's location and were clearly separated from the AA standard with no overlap. The experiment showed that AP resists hydrolysis in the brain and thus the short-term biological effects of AP may be ascribed to the action of an intact ester molecule. The results may help elucidate the biological action of AP, a compound that increasingly attracts attention for biomedical use due to its antioxidant potential and ability to penetrate into the membrane signaling target sites.

PMID: 16204793

[mitkat]

Thanks for the studies boys, I'll have to reconsider this supp when it's done.

I suppose you could shoot up with it like in this study and hope that too much doesn't get into the skin.

...I suppose I could, but no, I'm good.

Interesting study, but I am interested in having a fat soluble form of vitamin c regardless if it has no more potency than ascorbic acid.

As Niner said, it's only fat-soluble until the palmitate group gets cleaved off in digestion. I suppose you could shoot up with it like in this study and hope that too much doesn't get into the skin. (The same goes for tocopheryl succinate. All those in vitro studies showing a unique anti-cancer effect are nearly worthless, since it gets absorbed as tocopherol.)

J Physiol Pharmacol. 2005 Sep;56 Suppl 4:197-201.
Stability of ascorbyl palmitate molecule in the rat brain.
Pokorski M, Marczak M.
Department of Respiratory Research, Medical Research Center, Polish Academy of Science, Warsaw, Poland. mpokorski@cmdik.pan.pl

Recent investigations have shown the ability of ascorbyl palmitate (AP), a bioactive, lipid-soluble ester of ascorbic acid (AA), to penetrate neural tissues. This study seeks to determine the occurrence of hydrolysis of AP molecule in brain tissue, which could rather point to the action of AA alone carried over the biological barrier and then released from the AP compound. The integrity of AP molecule was examined qualitatively in the rat brain by thin-layer-chromatography. AP was injected into an internal carotid artery in a dose of 75 mg per rat after tying off the common and external carotid arteries at the same side. The rats were sacrificed 15 min later, the brain tissue was extracted with chloroform/methanol and chromatographed. The AP bands plated from the samples ipsilateral to the injection side strictly corresponded to the AP standard's location and were clearly separated from the AA standard with no overlap. The experiment showed that AP resists hydrolysis in the brain and thus the short-term biological effects of AP may be ascribed to the action of an intact ester molecule. The results may help elucidate the biological action of AP, a compound that increasingly attracts attention for biomedical use due to its antioxidant potential and ability to penetrate into the membrane signaling target sites.

PMID: 16204793

Edited by mitkat, 06 May 2008 - 07:44 PM.

[ajnast4r]

seconding the no ascorbyl palmitate