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Why Doesn't Evolution Make Us Smarter?


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#1 Johan

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:47 AM


Let's take a look at the IQ of the average human being: 100.

Posted Image

As we can see here, 100 is the most common, with rates declining as we move towards either end of the scale.
Now, let's take a look at evolution. Over the course of the ages, evolution has always favored that which gave a species the largest chance of passing its genes on.
Since most people have an average IQ, that characteristic must therefore give the largest chance of reproducing.
Why is that? What's so good about having an average intelligence, from an evolutionary point of view? Why doesn't evolution simply make us smarter?

#2 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 12:58 PM

100% is average because that's how IQ is defined. If the average intelligence suddenly shot up, we'd simply redefine 100% IQ to be different.

#3 siberia

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 01:59 PM

Beside gareths point, which is far more relevant.
I think that it is so that average intelligence has increased, at least during the last century, and that this comes from that people grow up and live in better environments with better nutrition etc. It's called the Flynn effect. When it comes to present evolution, I think religion and level of education is far more important. Catholics and Muslims get far more children than other groups for example, since birth control is considered immoral. Poor and below average intelligence people produces more offspring as well, I believe I've read.

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#4 Centurion

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 02:01 PM

Siberia's point makes sense. There is no survival advantage in being intelligent if you can be thick as a plank and still have many offspring.

#5 John Schloendorn

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 05:31 PM

if you can be thick as a plank and still have many offspring

But then why are we seeing a Flynn effect?

#6 Centurion

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 05:38 PM

Any number of reasons. An actual increase in an individual's unexploited intellectual potential is only one possible reason. Better education allows people to realise more of their potential without people necessarily having a greater level of potential to tap.
Greater ability at taking IQ tests. It stands to reason that over time people will become better at taking these tests.

Societal pressure to make greater use of one's intellectual abilities than in the past. People are encouraged if not pressured to excel at the very narrow range of intelligences tested by IQ.

People have more opportunities to learn and advance themselves today than ever before, regardless of their genetic potential. An increase in overall intelligence does not necessarily indicate an increase in overall genetic potential.

#7 jaydfox

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 05:39 PM

It seems that intelligence correlates somewhat negatively with number of offspring, at least in many societies around the world. Probably not all.

To a certain extent, this might have been counterbalanced in the past by less intelligent people being less likely to reproduce in the first place. However, as society is currently set up, I suspect that average IQ (from a genetic standpoint) is going down, not up. Hopefully a temporary situation.

#8 xanadu

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 06:05 PM

With welfare and afdc, the poor and lower class are given an incentive to breed. Black families are on average larger than white families. Evolution is not getting the chance to do it's job. Smarter people realising the world is overpopulated, often choose to have small families or not have kids at all. Welfare recipients realise they get a bigger check if they have another kid so they do. That plus the fact it takes thought and will power to keep families small means the unintelligent will tend to push out the better class. This has only been going on for a few decades or so, not long enough to seriously affect the human race. In many countries things are different. I believe that intelligence is going up overall even though it may be in decline in a few socialistic leaning countries at the moment.

#9 Brainbox

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 06:14 PM

It seems that intelligence correlates somewhat negatively with number of offspring, at least in many societies around the world. Probably not all.

To a certain extent, this might have been counterbalanced in the past by less intelligent people being less likely to reproduce in the first place. However, as society is currently set up, I suspect that average IQ (from a genetic standpoint) is going down, not up. Hopefully a temporary situation.

Why do you consider this a "hopefully temporary situation"? The enhanced technology and empathy allow for a broader development of human kind. To develop the full potential of individuals that did not have the opportunity to do so due to lacking resources / circumstances such as economical, natural and social.

I believe that intelligence is going up overall even though it may be in decline in a few socialistic leaning countries at the moment.

I'm not a socialist, but this strikes me as a very limited view. Someone born into a "low social family" is not by definition more stupid. At least not yet. Since there are other circumstances that block the full potential development of "these people". Inhabitants of the old Soviet related countries that did display their intelligence were simply oppressed, killed or sent to Siberia.


Edit: What's wrong with an individual that has a lower IQ in the first place?

Edited by brainbox, 06 January 2007 - 08:31 PM.


#10 Johan

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 12:57 AM

100% is average because that's how IQ is defined. If the average intelligence suddenly shot up, we'd simply redefine 100% IQ to be different.


Even if the average intelligence were to increase, there would still be an average, which is my point.

#11 jaydfox

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:04 AM

Edit: What's wrong with an individual that has a lower IQ in the first place?

I wasn't making a judgment in the individual case: society as a whole suffers if the average intelligence of its population declines, IMO. That birth rates in the U.S. and many other industrialized nations tend to favor people of lower intelligence (for whatever reason, nature/nurture, upbringing/genetics) is a problem for society, IMO.

#12 DukeNukem

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 03:12 AM

I don't think intelligence was the end-goal of evolution, it was adaptation -- the ability to adapt to a changing environment. Intelligence allows for the most rapid adaptation.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before...I've not read any books on this subject.

#13 kylyssa

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 05:57 AM

Evolution has no "goals" or desires. Evolution doesn't DO anything, evolution is a description of what happens or has happened. "Natural selection" is even misleading. There is no "selection" there is what survives to reproduce.

Unless something prevents people under a certain intelligence level from reproducing (maybe they walk out into the street and get hit by buses before they have a chance to reproduce or try to go "lion tipping" instead of "cow tipping" or die of drug overdoses in excessive numbers) or something caused by having a higher intelligence increases the likelihood of reproduction (those of us with IQs over 165 begin creating our own super-fertile clone armies or take over fertility clinics and replace the donor contributions of gametes with our own or we just do a better job of wooing multiple partners to reproduce with [thumb] or we start passing out permanent forms of birth control to our dimmer brethren) we will likely see no natural evolution of intelligence beyond its current level. That is not to say we won't continue to optimize what native intelligence we have or that we won't purposely increase our own intelligence by artificial means.

#14 Lazarus Long

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 07:10 AM

(namingway)
As we can see here, 100 is the most common, with rates declining as we move towards either end of the scale.
Now, let's take a look at evolution. Over the course of the ages, evolution has always favored that which gave a species the largest chance of passing its genes on.
Since most people have an average IQ, that characteristic must therefore give the largest chance of reproducing.
Why is that? What's so good about having an average intelligence, from an evolutionary point of view? Why doesn't evolution simply make us smarter?


OK I have a minute to weigh in here and I think I had better before too many more misconceptions about the subject go unchallenged.

First off everyone take a deep breath and say after me:

"Individuals learn species evolve."

Then say:

"Evolution is not measured in decades or even a few generations for a species that lives as long as we do or has the gestational period we do. To talk about the evolution of intelligence in humans requires a detailed objective measurement that can be accurately assessed over millennium not decades or centuries, and definitely not years."

After that please realize that aside from assumptions with highly subjective measures for an idea, which itself resists hard definition; you have been essentially mixing apples and oranges.

So let's start at the beginning again even though Siberia and Jay have both made valid points they can only be discussed in evolutionary terms when making broad *cost/benefit* analyses that do not measure survival fitness by numbers of offspring alone. If that were the case then the lowest frog is vastly more fit than any of you. ;))

As we can see here, 100 is the most common, with rates declining as we move towards either end of the scale.
Now, let's take a look at evolution. Over the course of the ages, evolution has always favored that which gave a species the largest chance of passing its genes on.


These are both assumptions but they also do not correlate to one another. They both are only true *on average* if at all.

Starting with the first:

IQ is a totally artificial measure that came into existence relatively recently and even if you are trying to measure over the last century there is no way you are actually studying evolution with any such analysis as much as social change. This is a classic confusion of memetics and genetics.

Since most people have an average IQ, that characteristic must therefore give the largest chance of reproducing.


Second, this is a statistical trap that you tricked yourself into. IQ is a floating measure, the average will always be 100 (the mean) because the standards of measure change over time to adjust for changes in the basis of measure. It’s a little like the “curve” on an exam it is a measure of the living at any given period against one another not against evolution.

To be more clear, 100 represents the center point of a continuum, like zero between positive and negative numbers. However what is more important is that the actual number is meaningless across too many generations as the criteria must inevitably change to reflect changing conditions of measure. I cannot emphasize enough that this is not a valid extrapolation of the available data and essentially has no meaning with respect to intelligence over time as measured by IQ.

More importantly, intelligence as defined in evolutionary terms is not even necessarily measured by IQ depending on what you are defining it as and here is another problem because when you are talking about intelligence in terms of evolutionary psychology, you mean something very, very different than what is generally understood as represented by *IQ*.

Before you attempt to connect the first assumption you are making with the second be sure that you are able to define intelligence consistently for them both without depending on an abstract measure that you cannot under any circumstance apply objectively in evolutionary terms. BTW, just how are you defining intelligence?

That is a question I intend to return to in terms of evolutionary psychology and cognitive development. So let's look at assumption B again.

Now, let's take a look at evolution. Over the course of the ages, evolution has always favored that which gave a species the largest chance of passing its genes on.


This is only one measure of fitness and it clearly isn't necessarily most important one depending on your position in the environment. Yes it is a part of Dawkins’ view but it is not his entire point.

Survival fitness is measured by the ability to pass your genes on but also how well you prepare and equip those genes to pass themselves on (birthing vs rearing). Yes there are species where the kind of criteria you describe have been preeminent but count your lucky stars that you are not one of them or your life as a drone would be short lived.

In species where the fundamental imperative of evolution is just reproduction for simply passing on the genes males tend to be pretty expendable if not a down right waste of food, space and time; think bees, ants, wasps, etc.

So you are not wrong to describe such an imperative as existing but you are wrong not to see it in balance with a number of imperatives and child rearing and territorial control for security and life support, (food, shelter, defense, hunting, etc) are also vitally important. Reproductive quantity vs quality is a balance that relates directly to intelligence.

Third, survival skill is not the only important characteristic measure of intelligence that improves the ability for it to be passed on. BTW most evolutionary psychologists assume that not only your premises are mistaken but your conclusion is dead wrong.

So let's ask why?

There has been selection for intelligence and that is specifically because it increases your ability to survive. The price of being too stupid is extinction. Adaptation is not simply by chance it is also by skill and here again we enter the controversial area of memetics.

Survival skill is a measure of prowess and this translates into being a *provider parent*, regardless of whether you are bringing home the bacon, bread and butter or bonds. The only measure that changes is the nature of the environmental challenges: however the values for that measure are vitally important and highly subjective if you are trying to define it in terms of *IQ*.

Why is that? What's so good about having an average intelligence, from an evolutionary point of view? Why doesn't evolution simply make us smarter?


Before going on I noticed that kylyssa introduced a point I want to emphasize because I am full agreement. Except that I do think that “intelligence” when understood as an aspect of survival fitness is being selected for but not as a specific goal in itself as much as a necessary means to an end, survival.

Evolution has no "goals" or desires. Evolution doesn't DO anything, evolution is a description of what happens or has happened. "Natural selection" is even misleading. There is no "selection" there is what survives to reproduce.


We have goals but even Dawkins cringes when people misunderstand his use of the term selfishness in anthropomorphic terms for genes. IQ is how we measure fitness in human terms for social adaptation in relation to a combination of innate talent and social opportunity that is a response to environmental manipulation made possible by the evolution of human social structures. It is meaningless to talk of it in terms of environmental fitness however there are a number of measures for intelligence in evolutionary terms that are meaningful to discuss.

Some of these are:

Memory, communicativeness, pattern recognition, manual dexterity, reasoning capacity, (and here I am being intentionally controversial) empathy and sympathy due to their social significance and intelligence is related to social ability. You will of course notice that only some of these overlap IQ parameters but even then they are weighted very differently as values and definitely as to how they are quantified.

These are also different from two more measures that don’t fit well into IQ as a measure of fitness as they relate directly to genetics but in human society are molded to fit the conditions of the moment; prowess and talent.

Beauty for example is a form of prowess and in reproductive terms really does have a lot to do with intelligence. Physically the body without the mind is never as seductive as when mind and body exhibit demonstrable prowess. Beauty in both males and females when expressed for mating is related to how well they are capable of packaging themselves it is art more than science (talent as learned behavior). It takes real intelligence as prowess and talent to overcome a lack of the perfect body and attract the optimal mate but millions of people do it everyday.

I coined the phrase “seductive reasoning” from this aspect of evolutionary psychology as a skill; the ability to convince rather than prove. It defines seductive reasoning as “the of persuasion (argument) that creates conviction in the conclusion rather than a necessary objective proof”. Seduction is a goal.

Specifically goal oriented logic doesn’t need to be true it simply needs to achieve the intended result. If you think this is not a form of intelligence that describes a measure of fitness in reproductive terms then you probably aren’t getting any, err… I mean “it.”

Seductive reasoning is also the method of politicos, con men and lawyers, actors, courtesans, priests and prostitutes but is normally perceived of as “charisma”; it nevertheless describes intelligence as “talent” in evolutionary terms as well.

Why is that? What's so good about having an average intelligence, from an evolutionary point of view? Why doesn't evolution simply make us smarter?


So evolution isn’t making us smarter survival is. We are evolving higher intelligence to improve our ability to survive and the quality of that life we have.

What is good about “average intelligence” aside from all the fallacies that I have endeavored to disabuse everyone of, is that it “relates” in reproductive terms. It establishes a sympathetic standard that is the basis of long term human mating. By that I mean the kind of mating that is involved in child rearing not one night stands; social intelligence.

Often very high or very low intelligence “tends” to frighten or disturb average folks, so you will often see very intelligent people masking their intelligence to improve their “attractiveness” to a potential mate. While this behavior tends to be more common with women due to the large number of insecure males it is also present in males.

So please also understand that evolution isn’t making us smarter, getting smarter is improving our ability to evolve as a species and more importantly is also influenced by social behaviors described more by memes like, education, technology, socioeconomics, culture etc. than strict genetics. Social behavior improves the ability to pass on genes successfully too.

#15 biknut

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 08:53 AM

None of you guys are even close to the right answer. Allow me to explain.

Women don't want to fcuk geeky smart guys. Most hot babes go for muscular bad boy types because they offer them a sense of protection.

Intelligent women that are attracted to geeky smart guys don't put out much, in comparison to hot babes. The geeks are lucky to get any sex at all. Naturally you end up with a lot less smart children because of this. [glasses]

#16 Brainbox

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:39 AM

I wasn't making a judgment in the individual case: society as a whole suffers if the average intelligence of its population declines, IMO. That birth rates in the U.S. and many other industrialized nations tend to favor people of lower intelligence (for whatever reason, nature/nurture, upbringing/genetics) is a problem for society, IMO.


This is the point indeed where discussions about evolving intelligence lead to. However, unlike animals, we humans have the level of consciousness that allow us to think about these matters and consequently allows us to act. The fact that some humans are concerned about fitness of society will consequently result in acting.

My opinion:
Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to develop a good view on the matter since we ourselves are part of "the problem". There are racial issues, religious issues, issues related to geographical location linked to availability of critical resources, etc. We, as humans, are just not capable of judging about the level of commitment to the general cause a certain individual has. Or groups of individuals. We are evn not capable of defining what the general cause should be. And consequently capable of judging whether a certain individual is allowed to get offspring or even to stay alive, to give some extreme examples of the way society could act. Well, extreme reactions from a philosophical standpoint, but not to extreme if you look at the actual developments in (very recent) political history.

My question:
If humans become capable of prolonging life, this issue will be given an extra dimension. Life extension will be costly, i.e. will become a scarce resource. Society will need to decide who will be allowed to use this resource and who will not be allowed to use it, either by explicit decision or by leaving this decision to a mechanism. Will e.g. the "economical market" be a good mechanism? Does imminst (we are imminst) have a view in this?

(I do not intend to hijack this thread, if a mod wants to split it into a new one it's ok with me.)

Edited by brainbox, 07 January 2007 - 10:51 AM.


#17 Johan

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:41 AM

Thank you all for enlightening me on this. It's clear to me now that I hadn't got all the facts.

#18 basho

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:11 PM

None of you guys are even close to the right answer. Allow me to explain.

Women don't want to fcuk geeky smart guys. Most hot babes go for muscular bad boy types because they offer them a sense of protection. 

Intelligent women that are attracted to geeky smart guys don't put out much, in comparison to hot babes. The geeks are lucky to get any sex at all. Naturally you end up with a lot less smart children because of this.  [glasses]

Well....

Apparently women's preference in mates (i.e., sexual attraction) changes throughout the menstrual cycle. During the most fertile period when they most likely to conceive they prefer the virile, masculine, tall, bad-boy types (presumably these testorone-related attributes are a sign of male sexual health). Outside of the fertile period, they prefer the pretty-boy or more intelligent/stable types (presumably signs of a good long-term provider).

So if you are the geeky or nice-guy type, you can be certain your woman is very likely to be (or definately thinking about) banging bad-boys at certain times of the month.

#19 Centurion

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:27 PM

So if you are the geeky or nice-guy type, you can be certain your woman is very likely to be (or definately thinking about) banging bad-boys at certain times of the month.


Whereas if you're a jock she's thinking of leaving you for someone with a brain in his head every other day of the month.

#20 basho

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:32 PM


So if you are the geeky or nice-guy type, you can be certain your woman is very likely to be (or definately thinking about) banging bad-boys at certain times of the month.

Whereas if you're a jock she's thinking of leaving you for someone with a brain in his head every other day of the month.

So, you get the wild, uncommitted sex, and some other guy takes care of the kids. [tung]

#21 Infernity

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:57 PM

100% is average because that's how IQ is defined. If the average intelligence suddenly shot up, we'd simply redefine 100% IQ to be different.

Simple, smart, true.


-Infernity

#22 xanadu

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:24 PM

I'm going to stay out of the definition of intelligence. That one is too controversial for me to touch. I do think it relates to adaptivity in behavior.

How can evolution take place in just a few generations? We've been tought it takes a long time. I can show examples where it takes place rapidly. All it takes is a big challenge or series of challenges facing a species. If only 10% of the population has the resources whether it be brawn, sight, speed, food gathering ability or whatever factor or group of factors is key, those will be the ones that survive. The 10% with a little extra on the ball survive the big challenge and the next generation has nearly 100% of the vital trait. In one generation you have changed the population totally. I think what we mean is that under normal circumstances it takes a long time to change.

Are we as a species being put to the test? We conquered the planet and took it from the animals. We conquered nature with homes, heat, AC, fences, guns and so on. But now nature is striking back and it's all our fault for being so short sighted. Global warming along with the constant loss of areable land, less and less clean water and so on along with the rise of antibiotic diseases mean it's humans turn to see what they do when the chips are down. The trouble is, there is little incentive for the individual to work at it. We recycle and so on out of a sense of duty but most people won't even do that. Might the willingness to work for the long term be the trait that causes some to survive this series of crisises?

#23 mitkat

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:37 PM

None of you guys are even close to the right answer. Allow me to explain.

Women don't want to fcuk geeky smart guys. Most hot babes go for muscular bad boy types because they offer them a sense of protection. 

Intelligent women that are attracted to geeky smart guys don't put out much, in comparison to hot babes. The geeks are lucky to get any sex at all. Naturally you end up with a lot less smart children because of this.  [glasses]


Lol..oh man, I really hope you're being sarcastic. I have the easiest solution here - simply be both types of boy. Does this not come naturally?

#24 Centurion

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:31 AM

None of you guys are even close to the right answer. Allow me to explain.

Women don't want to fcuk geeky smart guys. Most hot babes go for muscular bad boy types because they offer them a sense of protection. 

Intelligent women that are attracted to geeky smart guys don't put out much, in comparison to hot babes. The geeks are lucky to get any sex at all. Naturally you end up with a lot less smart children because of this.  [glasses]


Lol..oh man, I really hope you're being sarcastic. I have the easiest solution here - simply be both types of boy. Does this not come naturally?



You mean like this guy mitkat?

Posted Image

#25 mitkat

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:42 AM

Yes, but I meant him specifically:

Posted Image
(From golf course where I was a horticulturalist....got a special ticket that day ;) )

#26 Centurion

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:44 AM

LOL! ahh, coors the good old silver bullet

#27 mitkat

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:44 AM

Okay, we've got to stop derailing threads. New year's resolution.

#28 Centurion

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 01:14 AM

Aye so IQ. Interesting debate so far but nothing has been touched on with regard to the applicability of IQ as a means of measuring intellectual capacity. What does everyone think of EQ? I have read Daniel Goleman's book and find it to be very convincing (particularly cogent also)

#29 Aegist

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 11:43 PM

Let's take a look at the IQ of the average human being: 100.

Posted Image

As we can see here, 100 is the most common, with rates declining as we move towards either end of the scale.
Now, let's take a look at evolution. Over the course of the ages, evolution has always favored that which gave a species the largest chance of passing its genes on.
Since most people have an average IQ, that characteristic must therefore give the largest chance of reproducing.
Why is that? What's so good about having an average intelligence, from an evolutionary point of view? Why doesn't evolution simply make us smarter?

Many good points have already been made about the definition of IQ, and about how environment can affect intelligence, plus the apparent correlation between uneducated people having more children than the highly educated. But let me address the title question: Why doesn't evolution make us smarter?

First of all, the assumption is actually wrong. Evolution 'has' made us smarter, and since we can't judge our current time or future time, we have no reason to assume it has stopped. As evolution works over the period of tens of thousands of years, if we take snap shots of every 10,000 year period, I think you would have to agree that we are smarter on average now than we were 10,000 years ago (and I mean we have a greater genetic potential for intelligence, not just smarter because of food and education), and people 10,000 years ago would be smarter than the people 10,000 years before them etc.

Asking why evolution hasn't made visual changes in your lifetime, is like asking why the the president of the USA hasn't changed in the last 10 minutes. it just doesn't happen that often...it is a slow (painfully slow) process. 3 or 4 generations of people will NOT create any evolutionary change, particularly when the population is as large as that of humans.



So, in summary: Technically, evolution IS making humans smarter. But you can't see it because a few hundred generations of humans isn't even to see it.

#30 enigma

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 02:16 PM

Evolution didnt make us smarter because, although there was a great deal of time for it to have occured, greater intelligence must not have been valuable for the effects that evolution promote.

1. Survival
2. Breeding
3. Descendents Survive

We can only speculate why.

Perhaps when people become too smart they become nihilists and give up on life (not likely)

if you can be thick as a plank and still have many offspring

But then why are we seeing a Flynn effect?


If dumber people are having more kids and IQ is going up then the average maximum genetic intellectual capacity of the society is going down whilst the average IQ is going up for cultural reasons. But if the average maximum genetic intellectual capacity of society continues to decline then eventually, inevitably, average IQ will decline also.




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