26 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

ive been waiting tables, and its DESTROYING my knees...
i power walk pretty much non stop 8-12 hours a day 4 days a week.

i have some dr scholls inserts for my shoes, that kinda helps...
but by the 3rd and 4th day, my knees are on fire.


suggestions?

[health_nutty]

Can you buy more conforatable shoes? They make some pretty comfy shoes that still look nice. Prevention is better than a cure.

[Shepard]

I'd give cissus a shot.

[xanadu]

Glucosamine and chondroitin. Buy the triple strength, cheap is good. It may take a while to find your dose. It takes about 2 days to a few weeks for it to kick in.

[niner]

Excercise that strengthens the musculature around the kneecap may help. Leg extensions with as much weight as you can comfortably lift in two sets of ten. This helped me a lot. Obviously, work shorter shifts or break them up more if you can, and lose weight if you need to. Good luck with it; I hope you don't permanently injure yourself. I would talk to a doctor about it if possible.

[Shepard]

Leg extensions with as much weight as you can comfortably lift in two sets of ten. 

The design of the machine plays a significant role for this exercise WRT knee safety.

[Pablo M]

Get yourself some Birkenstock clogs with a back strap. No, they don't look that manly, but they're comfortable.

[DukeNukem]

Might look into Lyprinol, a patented marine-based oil from New Zealand, that I believe has legitimate studies showing surprising effectiveness versus inflammation in joints.

Rose hips from Switzerland, I think, also might be effective.

Sorry, I do not have time to do the look-ups myself.

[sentinel]

At the risk of stating the obvious - Fish oil. I have pretty shoddy joints and if I stop taking fish oil for more than 5 days my elbows, knees etc start creaking and feeling sore. I've been doing weights for about 20 years and leg extensions (like squats, presses etc) at relatively low intensity provide fundamental help but if improperly executed (which can be down to the relative ergonomics of the machine not just load, speed etc) can exacerbate the problem as well. Go for a high EPA (relative to DHA) source of fish oil; it's anti-inflammatory, won't rot your stomach like Ibuprofen and has all kinds of other health benefits too.

Good luck!

[Shepard]

At the risk of stating the obvious - Fish oil.

I'm betting that won't happen.

[sentinel]

At the risk of asking the obvious - Why?

Sentinel

[ajnast4r]

At the risk of asking the obvious - Why?

Sentinel

im a vegetarian

[boilerroom]

astaxanthin might help

[sentinel]

Ahh.. Not one of those pseudo-veggies who eat fish either I take it!

Well, you can go down the less direct ALA route with Flaxseed/Rapeseed sources but your looking at c 4 grams of ALA to get anything like an effective EPA end product.... Anyway you have been down this route before ajnast4r, do you still take Flax etc and if so have you noticed it impact you joint issues?

My wife takes flax but I'm afraid I mercilessly go straight for the fatty fish, I did switch to Flax for a while but my joints started hurting again.

Sentinel.

[ajnast4r]

Ahh.. Not one of those pseudo-veggies who eat fish either I take it!

Well, you can go down the less direct ALA route with Flaxseed/Rapeseed sources but your looking at c 4 grams of ALA to get anything like an effective EPA end product.... Anyway you have been down this route before ajnast4r, do you still take Flax etc and if so have you noticed it impact you joint issues?

My wife takes flax but I'm afraid I mercilessly go straight for the fatty fish, I did switch to Flax for a while but my joints started hurting again.

Sentinel.

nope, no psuedo veg for me... im very strict.

and actually i waited tabled about 2 years ago and had no problems with my knees at all.. and my flax intake was pretty high at the time...

im gonna up my omega3 intake again and see how that works

[sentinel]

Hope it helps.

Asides from that I find with the orthotics that often you have to go up half a shoe size in order to fit in anything beneficial; Vasyli are good and were recommended by my podiatrist (who is also a long distance runner), and Dr foot seem ok.

http://www.vasyli.co...dical/knee.html

My use for them was to relieve an inflamed plantar facea (arch of your foot), but if your Dr Scholls are helping a bit then the root cause maybe down to a pronation issue which can take a few years to manifest in the knees, back etc. If so, then obviously a prevention rather than cure approach has to be the way to go as, speaking as someone who has had 'roid shots sideways into the centre of his already painful foot [:o]

Sentinel

[stephenszpak]

Maybe MSM up to 45,000 mg a day.

-Stephen

[boily]

Maybe MSM up to 45,000 mg a day.

I've read naturopaths reccommending up to 20 grams a day of MSM.

[stephenszpak]

I've read naturopaths reccommending up to 20 grams a day of MSM.

My info is from a friend that took MSM (I think 45,000 mg a day).
I also read this book a while back:

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0425172651


Your local library or library system should have it. Everything has a side effect.
I remember it interfering with my sleep.

You could maybe also think about a liver
cleanse.

-Stephen

[wannafulfill]

5-loxin

[sentinel]

Shepard

I'd give cissus a shot.

Shepard, I looked at Cissus a while back as a potential addition to my tendon support/mass building cycle but it seems to court controversy ie anecdotal reports ranging from "comparable to 'roids" thru to "hyped up scam, peddled by unethical thieves", which seems to encompass a fair spectrum of feedback.

Have you (or indeed anyone else) actually tried it or just read some promising studies?

Sentinel

[Shepard]

Yeah, I have used cissus. It's pretty convincing that it has decent anti-oxidant/inflammatory/microbial/cortisol properties, along with beneficial GI effects. I wouldn't count on any real anabolic properties that some people claim. But, my dad just started out using some for his knee, so I'll see what he thinks of it after a month.

As far as I know, something (I didn't look much into it) went down with USP Labs, but you can get bulk cissus from a few sources now.

[biknut]

Glucosamine and chondroitin. Buy the triple strength, cheap is good. It may take a while to find your dose. It takes about 2 days to a few weeks for it to kick in.

I always buy the kind with MSM. It seems to work a little better.

[sentinel]

Thanks Shepard, I may trial it as I have a couple of tears which could benefit from a multi-pronged attack.

Let me know how your dad's deadlifts progress

Sentinel

[maxwatt]

See if you can find a good physical-therapist, one who deaks with sports injuries would be helpful. He/she can analyze any structural abnormalities and help you compensate or correct.

I find Merril soft rubbery soled clogs can be very comfortable for long periods standing and walking. More so than running shoes or Addidas walkers.
There is really no vegetarian source of a delta 3 fat that bypasses delta-5 desaturase (which is why fish oil does, and why it is good). Would it be acceptable to lick the fatty secretions off a fishes' skin, and throw him back? I thought not. That;s why I am a lapsed vegan.

NSAIDs like Advil inhibit COX1 and COX2, but this also destroys delta-5 and delta-6 desaturase, and this leads to increased prostaglandins, and more pain. So if you are taking Advil or ibuprufen it could be contributing to the problem though providing short term relief.

You can try acetominophen as a pain killer, it only inhibits COX1. I don't expect it to help that much, but try it. You can get a COX2 inhibitor like Celebrex (prescription), but this may eventually lead to cardiac problems. Resveratrol has been shown to be a COX2 inhibitor, and so might help with pain, but this is a guess. Feverfew, an herb, is also a cox2 inhibitor. (Above explanation is no doubt garbled. I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV.)

So we have physical therapy, alternate pain killers. and different shoes.

I vote for number 3.

[spacetime]

I've also used Cissus with varying results. I used Cissus Rx from USPLabs at 4 caps per day. It did help with the various tendonitis issues I had. I found that it did have some GI issues though. About 30 mins after ingestion I would burp and get a bunrt coffee taste. Aside from that it worked to eliminate my tendonitis in my elbows knees and ankles. I tried a bulk powder and got virtually no results from that so I went back to USPLabs' product. They had a sale on it and suggested 8 caps a day so I tried that. Didn't notice any anabolic effects though I did notice skin was oiler. Some may attribute that to increase testosterone production though I wouldn't I also actually noticed my joints felt drier and any moderate increase in joint pain likely due to the cortisol suppression.

I think most people would do well at 4-6 caps. I'm unsure of any problems that USPLabs may hav as I haven't used their product in 6 months. But there was no return in pain once I stopped using it so I am please with the product. I would like to hear what concerns or issues there were about the product though.

[jamfropsi]

Bulk Cissus (take on empty stomach in morning and pre-bed)
Glucosamine+MSM+Chodroitin mix
Eat various spices and curry
5-Loxin (or some other anti-inflammatory supp that has boswelin and tumeric and possibly ashwagandha)

Also if you decide to do some sort of rehab for it then go slow on it. If doing leg ext. then do high reps (12-20 reps) with 2-3 sets and then later on move on to doing squats with the same rep/set scheme as stated earlier. Also try something called Terminal Knee Extensions (it is a pre-habilitation type of movement). I hope u guys don't mind this copy and paste from another board:

To do a TKE you need a light or average Jump Stretch Band (www.elitefts.com or www.jumpstretch.com.) Other bands may work as well. Choke it around a power rack post or any other stable object at knee height. Wrap the other end of the band around your knee. Walk back so the back is pulling at the back of your knee. With your heel on the floor, bend and flex your knee.







When you flex make sure to contract your quad as tight as you can for a one or two count. You'll want to do 15-20 reps for a couple sets of each leg. This is also a great warm-up if your knees tend to bother you. With all rehab work, if you're seeing a doctor or therapist you'll need to run this by him first to make sure you won't screw yourself up more.

Yeah, I know this is a stupid movement. I also hate this kinda crap. I was born to go heavy and stuff like this kills me to do. But you know what? We still need to do it.

Training Mistakes:

• Letting your heel come off the ground.

• Not stepping back to tighten the band.

• Rushing the movement. Keep the movement slow and controlled with a tight contraction at the finish position.

• Not doing them at all!

/qoute

Also make sure that you work the antagonizing muscle group, ie Hamstrings (ham curls). Mainly so that there wont be a muscle imbalance. Some people do these as super sets (ex: leg ext for 15 reps then immediately ham curls 15 reps, then they rest for the next set.

Hope that helps....