27 replies to this topic

[synicus]

MRI on right shoulder 10 months ago: arthritis (this is somewhat painful [weightlifting] but not unbearable).

MRI on spine, herniation/slight bulging disc, L 4, arthritis is playing a part there, too, I believe. Currently doing Chiropractic/rehab for spine. Main problem here is hern. is pinching nerve causing numbness/instability in right leg, some occaisional numbness in left arm.

Supplements:

Cissus Quadrangularis: 3.2-4g day
Celedrin: 1g day
Hyaluronic Acid/msm: 200mg, 1800mg day (just started Hyaluronic) day
Glucosamine/msm: 1.5g, 1.5g day
Calcium/Mag/vit D: 1g, 500mg, 200 iu (just started this) day

Just got some Pyritinol, will dose 400mg or < day, aware of possible liver hepatoxicity w/ this. I'm gonna do some research on arthritis, then see a doctor to get overall eval. of how much arthritis is messing up my joints. Don't have insurance so doctors are costing me quite a bit right now. For spine, reducing inflamation is goal now, to alleviate pinched nerve, so I'm gonna get some pain pills/anti-inflamatories for this.

Who uses Pyritinol, if so what benefits have you seen, whether "nootropic" or physical, ie joint related, ie arthritis/other.

Any other supplements you all are using for joints you find beneficial would also be appreciated. I'm looking also at Devil's Claw.

thx

[impulsive]

Ive tried it for 5 days.... haven't noticed anything

its expensive, so i will most likely stop

[FunkOdyssey]

I also tried pyritinol for a few weeks at one point and it did nothing for me either.

[xanadu]

For arthritis be sure to use some chondroitin along with the rest of that. It works very well and is cheap. Just buy the triple strength tabs. I don't know much about hyaluronic acid. I should look into it more.

[AaronCW]

Synicus, Impulsive, FunkOdyssey,

What doses have you tried/trying? In my experience doses of 400mg twice daily are noticable, and single doses of 1200mg are helpful for studying/reading. This should not pose a safety concern for a healthy person.

[FunkOdyssey]

I've tried doses up to 800mg with no effect (two 400mg caps in a single dose).

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 12 January 2007 - 08:34 PM.

[synicus]

Thx for the experiences/replies.

What doses have you tried/trying? In my experience doses of 400mg twice daily are noticable, and single doses of 1200mg are helpful for studying/reading.

Noticeable in what way, can you be more specific?

I'm new to noots so I've refrained from posting my early experiences as I would like a "baseline" and more time/usage to determine effect. Over last month I've been using Idebenone, Centrophenoxine, Piracetam, Aniracetam (more recent), Phenibut (not a "noot," I know), Alpha GPC, L-theanine, Sulbutiamine, and just started Segeline 1mg ramping up to 2.5mg ED or EOD.

As far as positive mood effects, I'm most impressed by Idebenone and Subultiamine; the former is slight but I like its antioxidant properties, currently dosing once ED @ 200mg, I think its a "keeper" as far as I'm concerned, at a lower dose because of cost-effectiveness; the latter I've gone as high as 1g, currently dosing @ 300mg ED, before workouts, I like its focus/endurance properties, I think also a "keeper" @ ~ 300mg ED or before workouts, it reminds me of Citruline Malate @ ~ 10mg for endurance but Sulbut has better axiolotic/mood effect.

I have noticed more cognitive organizational motive/ability. I attribute this to the Pir/Anir. Also a greater appreciation of music. Currently dosing Pir twice per day @ 2400mg, Anir once in morning @ 500mg, Pir/Anir in morning w/ 500mg Alpha GPC, Alcar, Nac. I also have Oxir but holding off to determine effect of Pir/Anir.

Haven't noticed much from L-theanine, as high as 600mg. But I've got it so I'll play around w/ it. Centro don't notice much but its general healthful benefits may make it worthwhile @ 200mg or so. Phenibut I love, as do most people, remarkable anti-anxiety and social-disinhibition effect but tolerance is a problem, already dosing @ 3g day, use it maybe 3 times per week.

I just got Picamilone which I'm excited to try, will dose @ 100mg x 3 ED. Just got the Pytritinol, haven't tried, more interested in its arthritis-relieving ability but I'll experiment w/ the dosage. Don't want to have to monitor liver values, don't know how exaggerated hepatoxicity is.

So far I'm satisfied w/ what I've been doing but cost is also a factor, so what to keep/what to discard.

[Ghostrider]

Used it, didn't do anything noticable, stopped using it.

[outsider]

The piracetam (3 g)/ pyritinol (800mg)/ vinpocetine and bacopa is one of the most effective stack I have tried. But I think pyritinol caused me liver disturbance.

I really think it enhanced my intelligence. It's like I could see the bigger picture more easily.

[Guacamolium]

Old topic, but this needs clarification, I'm tired of the BS going around about this.
.
Pyritinol works with most people. It's in my top 3 favorite Noots. It's acute, its effects are very noticeable in me. I love it.
Now, I think I just solved the puzzle as to WHY pyritinol doesn't work in some people: back in 2008 I had pyritinol powder from one vendor, started to run out, so I bought capsules instead this time from cognitive nutrition. No effect. It tasted like pyritinol. Hmmm. So I took the powder again and BOOM, acute effects. Took the capsules,nothing.

Now, I've been around nootropics since 1997-1998, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with the fake pyritinol. I started just ordering directly from China like the businesses do to save money, and low and behold, there are TWO pyritinols. One, a salt - pyritinol HCl, and one a non-salt - just pyritinol. One is IV use only (Europe hospitals), and one is orally bioavailable. In retrospect it's obvious these two got mixed up, so that explains most of the non-responders. The other part (and this is speculative) is a small group of people have a gene that sends RNA which sends a protein to the liver that dismantles pyritinol, due to its disulfide bridge, rendering to B-6 molecules in its stead. Yeah, you're not gonna feel that.

Pyritinol is worth it, way worth it. So where do you get it? It's around, but contact China for 500 grams of Non IV pyritinol. Wuxi Cima, Desheng, Waseta, just to name a few. You'll pay less and you'll probably be satisfied.

[daouda]

I must say I was very surprised by the reports of no perceivable effect from pyritinol, for me it is one if not THE most potent/noticeable noot, with as you said a very acute effect (so I would only use it on a as-needed basis). Now I really think you nailed with with that post, as I was using pharmaceutical pyritinol myself

[noot_in_the_sky]

Old topic, but this needs clarification, I'm tired of the BS going around about this.
.
Pyritinol works with most people. It's in my top 3 favorite Noots. It's acute, its effects are very noticeable in me. I love it.
Now, I think I just solved the puzzle as to WHY pyritinol doesn't work in some people: back in 2008 I had pyritinol powder from one vendor, started to run out, so I bought capsules instead this time from cognitive nutrition. No effect. It tasted like pyritinol. Hmmm. So I took the powder again and BOOM, acute effects. Took the capsules,nothing.

Now, I've been around nootropics since 1997-1998, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with the fake pyritinol. I started just ordering directly from China like the businesses do to save money, and low and behold, there are TWO pyritinols. One, a salt - pyritinol HCl, and one a non-salt - just pyritinol. One is IV use only (Europe hospitals), and one is orally bioavailable. In retrospect it's obvious these two got mixed up, so that explains most of the non-responders. The other part (and this is speculative) is a small group of people have a gene that sends RNA which sends a protein to the liver that dismantles pyritinol, due to its disulfide bridge, rendering to B-6 molecules in its stead. Yeah, you're not gonna feel that.

Pyritinol is worth it, way worth it. So where do you get it? It's around, but contact China for 500 grams of Non IV pyritinol. Wuxi Cima, Desheng, Waseta, just to name a few. You'll pay less and you'll probably be satisfied.

Thanks somethingtoxic, I been looking for a relient and affortable source of pyritiol for a while now

I hav also notice a similar thing w/ pramiracetam most studies talk about pramiracetam sulphate (72869-16-0) , yet some placies sell pramiracetam without sulphate, including sunnootropics.

However, I'm not sure how will the results differ one from the other.

[chemicalambrosia]

Thanks somethingtoxic, I been looking for a relient and affortable source of pyritiol for a while now

Report back with results and which supplier you got it from please. I've been interested in trying pyritinol, but it doesn't seem to be widely available, especially at reasonable prices.

[fleischwunde]

[...] there are TWO pyritinols. One, a salt - pyritinol HCl, and one a non-salt - just pyritinol. One is IV use only (Europe hospitals), and one is orally bioavailable.

Excuse the idiot-question, but which one is the one for oral administration now?

I wanted to order some Pyritinoli dihydrochloridum (Encephabol solution) some time soon. Is this the "good one" or should I keep looking?

Also, in another thread someone mentioned, Pyritinol would be a bad idea together with Methylphenidate. Any opinions on this?

[8bitmore]

[...] there are TWO pyritinols. One, a salt - pyritinol HCl, and one a non-salt - just pyritinol. One is IV use only (Europe hospitals), and one is orally bioavailable.

Excuse the idiot-question, but which one is the one for oral administration now?

I wanted to order some Pyritinoli dihydrochloridum (Encephabol solution) some time soon. Is this the "good one" or should I keep looking?

Also, in another thread someone mentioned, Pyritinol would be a bad idea together with Methylphenidate. Any opinions on this?

Interesting.. I have got through half a bottle of Encephabol and must admit that I have not personally "felt" anything when taking between 20-30ml (400-600mg Pyritinol) doses which I find a little odd given how strongly people in general seem to feel Pyritinol. Be interesting to hear whether you can feel the Encephabol if you get it - might just be my capacity for metabolizing drugs into pure neutrality that is playing tricks with me though. Ah also: you HAVE to shake the bottle violently for a long ass time, otherwise the Pyritinol will simply be settled at the bottom of it & you'll be imbibing dentist tasting foul sugaryness without the (potential I guess) benefits (it said on my bottle to shake it before use but in Czech so.. took a bit of translating)

Edited by 8bitmore, 11 July 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[Guacamolium]

[...] there are TWO pyritinols. One, a salt - pyritinol HCl, and one a non-salt - just pyritinol. One is IV use only (Europe hospitals), and one is orally bioavailable.

Excuse the idiot-question, but which one is the one for oral administration now?

I wanted to order some Pyritinoli dihydrochloridum (Encephabol solution) some time soon. Is this the "good one" or should I keep looking?

Also, in another thread someone mentioned, Pyritinol would be a bad idea together with Methylphenidate. Any opinions on this?

Pyritinol is for oral administration, and pyritinol HCl for IV use.

[Guacamolium]

[...] there are TWO pyritinols. One, a salt - pyritinol HCl, and one a non-salt - just pyritinol. One is IV use only (Europe hospitals), and one is orally bioavailable.

Excuse the idiot-question, but which one is the one for oral administration now?

I wanted to order some Pyritinoli dihydrochloridum (Encephabol solution) some time soon. Is this the "good one" or should I keep looking?

Also, in another thread someone mentioned, Pyritinol would be a bad idea together with Methylphenidate. Any opinions on this?

Interesting.. I have got through half a bottle of Encephabol and must admit that I have not personally "felt" anything when taking between 20-30ml (400-600mg Pyritinol) doses which I find a little odd given how strongly people in general seem to feel Pyritinol. Be interesting to hear whether you can feel the Encephabol if you get it - might just be my capacity for metabolizing drugs into pure neutrality that is playing tricks with me though. Ah also: you HAVE to shake the bottle violently for a long ass time, otherwise the Pyritinol will simply be settled at the bottom of it & you'll be imbibing dentist tasting foul sugaryness without the (potential I guess) benefits (it said on my bottle to shake it before use but in Czech so.. took a bit of translating)

Encephabol is pyritinol HCl. You want Pyritinol - unless you want to inject it.

[arjacent]

I've used pyritinol and loved it. I have access to stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin and in some ways pyritinol is superior. I get a warm feeling in my head and my concentration goes way up. It is the only nootropic which improves reading comprehension for me. When I take it it's always with tyrosine and vitamin C. I dose about 200mg with food.

Edited by arjacent, 11 July 2013 - 06:51 PM.

[chemicalambrosia]

I've used pyritinol and loved it. I have access to stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin and in some ways pyritinol is superior. I get a warm feeling in my head and my concentration goes way up. It is the only nootropic which improves reading comprehension for me. When I take it it's always with tyrosine and vitamin C. I dose about 200mg with food.

Where do you buy it from?

[arjacent]

Where do you buy it from?

http://www.smart-nut....net/brain.html

Sorry, I meant that I take it WITHOUT food. That is, on an empty stomach along with Vit C and tyrosine.

Edited by arjacent, 11 July 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[8bitmore]

[...]
Interesting.. I have got through half a bottle of Encephabol and must admit that I have not personally "felt" anything when taking between 20-30ml (400-600mg Pyritinol) doses
[...]

Encephabol is pyritinol HCl. You want Pyritinol - unless you want to inject it.

Thanks for helping to bring a bit of clarity to the subject - now, lets try and establish what exactly the chemical formula/name is for functional Pyritinol, the only chemical formula that I have seen repeated C₁₆H₂₀N₂O₄S₂ which is equivalent to pyridoxine disulfide. It is written on all over the net (Wikipedia being chief offender) that Encephabol is equivalent to pyridoxine disulfide, only this is false, Encephabol contains C₁₆H₂₂Cl₂N₂O₄S₂ which is equivalent to Pyrithioxine hydrochloride (also written as Pyritinol HCI or Pyritinol hydrochloride). As for the difference in potency, well, most of the studies done are on Pyritinol HCI/Encephabol as far as I can via pubmed ("Pyritinol hydrochloride" yields 255 results whereas "Pyritinol disulfide" yields 10 results - using different spelling may well change outcome, I tried a few and not much difference noted).

Pyritinol HCI has zero noticeable effect for me so I might well try the Pyritinol disulfide edition next time around - would be nice if we could establish once and for all what type of Pyritinol is active (unfortunately it might also vary with differing capacity for metabolizing, I would love to hear from others that have tried the Merck brand of Encephabol to see whether they have had an effect or not!?)

[Geoffrey]

Encephabol is pyritinol HCl. You want Pyritinol - unless you want to inject it.

So how come my pyritinol, manufactured by Merck, is in tablet form? It's clearly labelled "Encephabol 100" and has in big letters "Pyritinol Dihydrochloride Monohydrate Tablets". If it's meant for injection only, why would Merck manufacture it in tablet form? Surely such a big pharmaceutical company wouldn't make such an elemental error?

[8bitmore]

Encephabol is pyritinol HCl. You want Pyritinol - unless you want to inject it.

So how come my pyritinol, manufactured by Merck, is in tablet form? It's clearly labelled "Encephabol 100" and has in big letters "Pyritinol Dihydrochloride Monohydrate Tablets". If it's meant for injection only, why would Merck manufacture it in tablet form? Surely such a big pharmaceutical company wouldn't make such an elemental error?

I reckon somethingtoxic is just trying to push the point that the HCI variant isn't overtly nootropic - if you read my post above you can see that I'm also in the camp that don't respond to HCI at all (also via Encephanol, although mine is liquid sugary type (obviously not for injection (dear lord)) that contain 100mg per 5ml). Do you respond to the HCI (Dihydrochloride) tablets you got?

[Geoffrey]

Do you respond to the HCI (Dihydrochloride) tablets you got?

If I do, it's very subtle. (In some ways that's what I want from a nootropic. I don't want to feel I'm "on" something, I just want to feel able to focus, have great memory recall and be creative.) With pyritinol, I really can't tell if it's having any positive effect. I don't notice any negatives. With most other nootropics I definitely can feel I'm "on" them, which as I say is not always good. But this creates a problem in that, if I have had a good (i.e. productive) day after taking pyritinol, I've really no idea if it was the pyritinol or whether I would have had a good day anyway. I haven't taken it consistently enough to know whether it increases my productivity on a regular basis.

[formergenius]

Call me crazy, but is Pyritinol a HACU enhancer?:

The high-affinity choline uptake in striatal synaptosomes of old rats was significantly lower than that of young ones. Pyritinol (600 mg/kg p.o.) increased choline uptake in young rats as well as in old ones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2905813

This was Encephabol.. Would Pyritinol Disulfide (superior from what I gather) be any different?
somethingtropic have you noticed any visual enhancements by any chance? Also, do you have a more elaborate evaluation to which you could refer me?
I'm interested in trying this, especially for its apparent procholinergic actions. I've only skimmed the net a little, nothing too deep, but I've seen some mentions of hepatotoxicity.. Any thoughts on that? In any case, I know this would best be put in the retailers/vendors subsection, but somethingtropic where do you get your Pyritinol from aside from Wuxi, if you don't mind me asking?

[Guacamolium]

[...]
Interesting.. I have got through half a bottle of Encephabol and must admit that I have not personally "felt" anything when taking between 20-30ml (400-600mg Pyritinol) doses
[...]

Encephabol is pyritinol HCl. You want Pyritinol - unless you want to inject it.

Thanks for helping to bring a bit of clarity to the subject - now, lets try and establish what exactly the chemical formula/name is for functional Pyritinol, the only chemical formula that I have seen repeated C₁₆H₂₀N₂O₄S₂ which is equivalent to pyridoxine disulfide. It is written on all over the net (Wikipedia being chief offender) that Encephabol is equivalent to pyridoxine disulfide, only this is false, Encephabol contains C₁₆H₂₂Cl₂N₂O₄S₂ which is equivalent to Pyrithioxine hydrochloride (also written as Pyritinol HCI or Pyritinol hydrochloride). As for the difference in potency, well, most of the studies done are on Pyritinol HCI/Encephabol as far as I can via pubmed ("Pyritinol hydrochloride" yields 255 results whereas "Pyritinol disulfide" yields 10 results - using different spelling may well change outcome, I tried a few and not much difference noted).

Pyritinol HCI has zero noticeable effect for me so I might well try the Pyritinol disulfide edition next time around - would be nice if we could establish once and for all what type of Pyritinol is active (unfortunately it might also vary with differing capacity for metabolizing, I would love to hear from others that have tried the Merck brand of Encephabol to see whether they have had an effect or not!?)

Encephabol is pyritinol HCl. You want Pyritinol - unless you want to inject it.

Wouldn't pyritinol disulfide be a redundant way of naming something? The disulfide bridge is contingent upon even the name pyritinol being used - as a salt or as a new molecule entirely. And I apologize (unless I'm mistaken here) Pyritinol dihydrochloride should be the one to go for. It's the base that's inactive.

So how come my pyritinol, manufactured by Merck, is in tablet form? It's clearly labelled "Encephabol 100" and has in big letters "Pyritinol Dihydrochloride Monohydrate Tablets". If it's meant for injection only, why would Merck manufacture it in tablet form? Surely such a big pharmaceutical company wouldn't make such an elemental error?

I probably mixed the two forms up in my post - I don't feel good about that - but pyritinol dihydrochloride is the one we want to shoot for, not its base counterpart.

Call me crazy, but is Pyritinol a HACU enhancer?:

The high-affinity choline uptake in striatal synaptosomes of old rats was significantly lower than that of young ones. Pyritinol (600 mg/kg p.o.) increased choline uptake in young rats as well as in old ones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2905813

This was Encephabol.. Would Pyritinol Disulfide (superior from what I gather) be any different?
somethingtropic have you noticed any visual enhancements by any chance? Also, do you have a more elaborate evaluation to which you could refer me?
I'm interested in trying this, especially for its apparent procholinergic actions. I've only skimmed the net a little, nothing too deep, but I've seen some mentions of hepatotoxicity.. Any thoughts on that? In any case, I know this would best be put in the retailers/vendors subsection, but somethingtropic where do you get your Pyritinol from aside from Wuxi, if you don't mind me asking?

Well Bas, Thank you for that. People on Reddit warned the community about taking Colu and a cholinergic agonist, but knowing me and my (what has been described) as a superhuman ability to ingest both acetylcholinergic agonists and GABA agonists, they both went well together. I only suggest this if you can take large amounts of acetylcholinergic agonists at high doses and have the pros outweigh the cons., then Colu at doses at 20mg should be fine. Otherwise, too much acetylcholine for most people is the opposite of cognitive enhancing.

I made the mistake of getting my last pyritinol from a certain company in Florida - I was buying other cognitive enhancers from China and couldn't afford 500 grams of Pyritinol for personal use, so I bit the bullet and gave this company a chance.

I ended up in the hospital in the ICU for 4 days. Seizures. I took 400mg (Weighed out exactly of what was later determined to be bath salts). I was so out of it a nurse asked me who the president of USA was, and in my confused reply, I said Osama.... uh.... Barack Osama. He said close, but no, which prompted me to "correct" myself and said Obama Bin Ladin. Which provoked an eruption of laughter from the medical staff, which in my state confused me further. I was told I went into another seizure then.

This is precisely why we need to make more COA's easier for companies to do for the consumers, and also to keep the manufacturers in check. Our current list of which to do first is Colu and phenylpiracetam NMR's, as they both do not have standards yet, and we're trying to figure out a way to streamline the process so companies don't have to pay as much for a 3rd party COA, thus ensuring this community stays safer.

As far as visual enhancements: slightly noticeable. SAM-E and another noot which shall go unnammed until September have produced striking acute shifts in color perception and line definition in my vision. Coluracetam simply boosts my mood. I get in such a great mood on that stuff, well worth it just for that alone.

- Jason

[formergenius]

People on Reddit warned the community about taking Colu and a cholinergic agonist, but knowing me and my (what has been described) as a superhuman ability to ingest both acetylcholinergic agonists and GABA agonists, they both went well together. I only suggest this if you can take large amounts of acetylcholinergic agonists at high doses and have the pros outweigh the cons., then Colu at doses at 20mg should be fine. Otherwise, too much acetylcholine for most people is the opposite of cognitive enhancing.

What type of acetylcholinergic agonists are you referring to? I smoke large amounts of tobacco, if that's what you mean In any case; indeed it would be best to avoid a hypercholinergic state. Alternatively, Colu dosage could be lowered I suppose.

Bummer about the bath salts! And scary too.. Hope you got reimbursed for your suffering.
I'll await your announcement in September (it's been September here for 10 minutes.. hint hint ), and look into SAM-E in the meantime.
Thanks for the ideas! And indeed, making 3rd party testing easier/faster to do would be very great.. Maybe if it gets big, it could expand to testing for consumers? I know I've some questionable compounds in my possession which I wouldn't mind having tested.

[Guacamolium]

People on Reddit warned the community about taking Colu and a cholinergic agonist, but knowing me and my (what has been described) as a superhuman ability to ingest both acetylcholinergic agonists and GABA agonists, they both went well together. I only suggest this if you can take large amounts of acetylcholinergic agonists at high doses and have the pros outweigh the cons., then Colu at doses at 20mg should be fine. Otherwise, too much acetylcholine for most people is the opposite of cognitive enhancing.

What type of acetylcholinergic agonists are you referring to? I smoke large amounts of tobacco, if that's what you mean In any case; indeed it would be best to avoid a hypercholinergic state. Alternatively, Colu dosage could be lowered I suppose.

Bummer about the bath salts! And scary too.. Hope you got reimbursed for your suffering.
I'll await your announcement in September (it's been September here for 10 minutes.. hint hint ), and look into SAM-E in the meantime.
Thanks for the ideas! And indeed, making 3rd party testing easier/faster to do would be very great.. Maybe if it gets big, it could expand to testing for consumers? I know I've some questionable compounds in my possession which I wouldn't mind having tested.

The acetylcholinergic agonists I were referring to typically tend to be Alpha-GPC, Citicoline, and Centrophenoxine. If somebody also had an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor like Huperzine-A or Galantamine into the mix, then that could complicate matters further when it comes to an efficacious enhancer of HACU. People on Reddit/nootropics warned against Colu and Alpha-GPC, but I reacted positively to the combination. I can imagine other's would not however. Again, I react well to an overabundance of pro-cholinergics for some reason. Nicotine shouldn't interact negatively to Coluracetam to my knowledge.

The seizures have been stabilized by prescription Levitiracetam, so I'm good now. I've yet to be reimbursed but it isn't the highest of priorities at the moment for me.

We're making the labels for the new products right now, which is the last step before introducing the products. I wish I had an exact date for you, but if I come across it, I'll let you know!