61 replies to this topic

[JMorgan]

Oh yeah... the Iraq Liberation Act. I had forgotten about that. Is it any wonder why we went to war with Iraq when it was our government's stated goal before Bush was even elected?

And really, far too often sitting presidents get blamed or praised for things they had nothing to do with. Clinton got credit for a good economy (one that was fueled by the massive tech boom) and Bush got blamed for inheriting a downturn (one that was fueled by the collapse of the tech boom). Yes, interest rates, taxes, who controls Congress, etc all have an impact, but often the results of certain actions aren't seen immediately.

Quick example: Our taxes were lowered a few years ago. Now we are experiencing a good economy. Whether or not they are related is a matter of debate. But many uneducated folk might think the good economy is because the Democrats were just elected in Congress (as if economic change could possibly happen that fast)!

[Aegist]

I agree that leaving now would be a terrible terrible move. You can't stop once you have started.

[Shepard]

I second the recommendation on Confessions of an Economic Hitman. It's good stuff.

[kgmax]

Let me present a hypothetical:

Let's say that Iraq went well and now we've got a flourishing new Arab democracy smack in the middle of the region where nobody thought it possible. The ripple effects of that drastically alter the lives of the people in the neighboring countries to the point where Iran's student population rise up and overthrow their regime, Saudi Arabia concedes and begins respecting women's rights and Syria suddenly feels squeezed between pro-Western states on all sides, leading to renewed Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.

If that had happened, everyone would have sung Bush's praises and said he was a genius. Why then, do people continue to doubt and obstruct that vision when that is exactly the goal here? Bush clearly doesn't have the foresight to see his vision come to pass properly, but now that he's received plenty of advice from all sides and outlined a clear strategy for creating this scenario, Congress wants to cut off funding and force us out before the job is done.

In that hypothetical more manufacturing, IT and other jobs would be getting outsourced and once again the middle class america is screwed.

In the real world things did not go well, I never wanted to create a global democracy. I simply want factories to stop shutting down, Jobs stop getting outsourced all the while the government thinks that education (and the increase in debt that goes along with it) will solve our woes.

I call bullshit!

[Aegist]

Talking about Hypotheticals


Even Stephven - Should the US invade Iraq?

[xanadu]

You can't stop once you have started

So once you realise what you have started is a mistake, it's always too late? I thought the blender was turned off when I put my hand in but it turned out to be on. I lost a finger but I can't stop now. I have to put the rest of the hand in. After that, perhaps up to the elbow. Lets call it a surge. Who will back down first, the blender or the fool?

[biknut]

You want to know why Bush is so adamant in staying in Iraq? Because his bosses told him to do it. His bosses in Israel want Iraq pacified and they control the media in this country and through the media and rich PACs they control the politicians.

The Jews again. Geez, you and Mel Gibson could probably have a good time together. You may be suffering from a condition called Jewophobia.


I kind of surprised you're not blaming the civil war in Iraq on the Jews sneaking around blowing up the Iraqi temples.

[xanadu]

Stop and think for a moment, bik. What is the only country in the world that benefits from Iraq being invaded and occupied? We certainly don't benefit, Iraq has not benefitted, only Israel has benefited. It is usual to attack those who reveal the truth about Israel much like the treatment given Gibson though I don't know that he was right about all he said. Israel hated Saddam because he was becoming a leader among arabs. That's one thing they will not tollerate. Therefore, we got our marching orders and went in. They have told Bush he must keep troops in there as long as he wishes to remain president.

I kind of surprised you're not blaming the civil war in Iraq on the Jews sneaking around blowing up the Iraqi temples.

Your naivete is amusing. The mossad has done far worse things than blowing up a few temples. If they thought it was in their best interests they would do it in a second. They would blow up our buildings without a hesitation if it seemed expedient. They have attacked us more blatantly than that already.

Interestingly, the support for Bush seems to be about the same on this board as it is nationally in USA.

[JMorgan]

Therefore, we got our marching orders and went in. They have told Bush he must keep troops in there as long as he wishes to remain president.

Where did this come from?

[The Mossad] have attacked us more blatantly than that already.

And this?

[xanadu]

Do a little research on the uss liberty incident then come back and ask me where it came from that they have attacked us. It is well known that the pro-israel lobbies are the 800 lb gorilla in politics. Our leaders do not make a move without an OK from that country. Certainly not on anything that might affect them. Our leaders put Israel's interests before those of USA. We pay them, elect them and expect them to serve us but they serve a foreign master first and foremost. No one will admit it publicly but that's the way things are.

[olderbutwiser]

Let see - Bush is the worst President ever - but he acts only at the behest of his Israeli masters. Why did the Israelis order Bush to be the worst President in history ? Did they like Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan et al better ?

OBW

[xanadu]

Ha ha, good one OBW. No, I doubt they told him to be the worst president ever. He managed most of that on his own. It was the invading Iraq part he got ordered into, IMO. And I never said he "only" acts on behalf of his israeli masters. They let him do most day to day stuff on his own. He is no doubt beholden to a few other masters. He will pay off a campaign contribution of a few hundred thousand with a bad law or regulation that makes the industry who paid him off millions or billions at the expense of the public. He has loosened regulations on polluters right and left.

The vote was overwhelming in favor of Bush being the worst pres ever. The neocons could only come up with Carter as a worse choice. Poor meek little Carter, he was known for being attacked by a rabbit. A swimming rabbit came toward his canoe one day and was shooed away. He got ribbed like mad after that, people said the secret service had to wrestle the bunny to the ground. His greatest accomplishment was the Egypt - Israel peace accord. What was Bush's main accomplishment? Did he have any? Seems like he is running away from everything he did. But he still has to stay in Iraq no matter what congress thinks and the public be damned.

[Aegist]

Maybe carter was attacked by the vorpal bunny from monty python's Search for the Holy grail?

http://en.wikipedia....t_of_Caerbannog
http://www.thinkgeek...oys/plush/778d/

Edit: Hahahahahahaha, i didn't read all of the wikipedia entry!!!
"Killer Rabbit was also a term used by the press to describe the swamp rabbit that "attacked" the then US-President Jimmy Carter in 1979, four years after the release of the movie. "

[drus]

From what I understand Dubya is the least intelligent president anyway, based on education and IQ. But is he the worst? Hard to say. I personally don't think we've had a good president since Eisenhower, (from a character standpoint) with the exception of Ford and Carter who were basically good men. But I would agree that Bush isn't doing a 'great' job that's for sure.

[xanadu]

I'm not so sure Ford had a great character. I know we were deluged with a PR campaign after his death praising him to the skies but that's just the media in action. Take a look at the facts. He was on the warren commission that came up with the ridiculous conclusion that Oswald was the only one involved in the plot. Eyewitness testimony of shots coming from the grassy knoll was ignored as was other evidence. He was never elected to any national office and seemed to have a deal with Nixon to pardon him. I will never overlook that pardon, it was a crooked deal and the media can spin all they want.

I see the neocons have managed to increace the vote for Bush. No doubt they registered a few new names to skew the results. It still shows Bush the worst ever, which he was.

What were Bush's accomplishments again? I seem to have missed that. I can rattle off a dozen or more horrible nasty crooked things he did but can't think of anything good. Even Hitler did a few good things so you'd think Bush must have done at least one. If the media wasn't spinning like mad to make him look good, he would be down in single digits by now and probably be impeached already. Now he says troops are going to stay in Iraq no matter what the rest of the country thinks. He is even ordering up new troops. I guess he is king after all, Doonesbury was right.

I see JMorgan has gone silent about Irael never having attacked us. Does silence mean agreement?

[JMorgan]

Indeed Xanadu, I was a little busy, though I did manage to look up the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty during the 1967 6-day war. It seems the details of that are conflicted, though I will not rule out the likely possiblity that Israel attacked the US intelligence ship with intent. With that said, strange things happened during that war in many ways.

Also, Israel attacking us doesn't seem any different than us bombing the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia. Claim it was an accident, but there was a real purpose underneath that either sent a message or was necessary to cover something up. (I'm not excusing it, just trying to explain it.)

I still think it's amusing though that people hate Bush SOOO much. There are far worse people in the world who deserve to be hated. And while it's a shock to you that Bush even got 9 votes in this poll, remember that half the country voted for him. A good majority of those people still like him and certainly don't believe he's the worst president ever, or even as bad as Hitler as some have claimed.

Please don't confuse your opinion here (while in the majority) as being representative of most of the country.

[Aegist]

There are far worse people in the world who deserve to be hated.

Like Bushes Advisors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Kass
http://en.wikipedia....liam_B._Hurlbut

Morons who think death is honourable an increasing lifespan is wrong:
http://www.usnews.co.../next040528.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12953517/


Maybe Bush isn't worst president ever, but from an internation perspective, all we see is someone who can't construct a sentence, someone who surrounds himself with incompetent advisors and someone who continues to do things which go against common sense and can only be thought of as self-interested actions.

[biknut]

Aside from Iraq, what's so bad about Bush?

Patriot Act. Guantanamo. Environment. Foreign policy. New Orleans. An inexcusably consistent record of poor decision-making based on bad intel. Extraordinarily out of touch with the reality of the citizens whose interests he is employed to steward. Heads a team of hawk sycophants.

How can one man get so much wrong?

"Patriot Act". What about it? The purpose is to hopefully protect us from a nuclear bomb going off in this country. If it becomes unnecessary in the future we can get rid of it. It hasn't caused any problems for me so far. I'd like to hear your better idea?

"Guantanamo" It's a prison. They keep bad men there. I'd rather they keep them there than here. They're not locking up boy scouts you know. What do you want to do with them? I hope not let them go.

"Environment". I think mainly you're talking about a bunch of crap Clinton got passed, like restrictions on public lands. I'm glad Bush reversed it. Last I heard we haven't gone back to leaded gas. What's your beef?

"Foreign policy" I think our foreign policy is two fold. Kill all the fucking terrorists we can find, and have as much free trade as possible.
What more do you want?
You may not know this but Bush has given more aid to Africa than any president in history. We're going to the moon and mars. You can't get any more foreign than that.

"New Orleans" Bush had about as much direct control over how that was handled as he does the economy. If you're going to blame Bush for that, fine, then he deserves all the credit for the very good economy we have now.

Bush isn't perfect. I only give him a 6 out of 10. Clinton gets a 5. Bush one gets 4. Carter gets a 1. Reagan was a 9, he was best in my lifetime. I guess that makes Bush distant second best.

I base this on the fact that we have a good economy, and his tax cuts were fair for everyone. Not commie, targeted democrat tax cuts that don't apply to me. Another very important thing is he's left me alone.

You're lucky if you get one good thing out of a president.

[JMorgan]

Taxes are a big deal to me too. I like being able to control my own money and invest it where I please. What really kills me is social security (since I pay the full 15.7% on top of my normal federal and state taxes) and I will never see a dime of it when I get older. The Bush administration's plan to overhaul and phase out social security over the next 30 years was sensible and the most painless way to get rid of a system that can't support itself indefinitely.

This is especially important to those of us that believe we'll be living longer (for centuries even) as social security cannot possibly provide benefits to people for that long.

If we wait another 30 years to deal with social security, it will cost trillions more to fix than it would now.

[biknut]

The real surprise to me is that I rate a dirty rotten stinkin commie Democrat (Clinton) so highly. I hated him as president, however he was a smart political animal. Because of circumstances beyond his control, he realized that in order to get any respect as president he would have to pass Republican initiatives that were supported by most Americans, but probably not by him. Like welfare reform and NAFTA. Democrats have no backbone, unlike Bush. In fact, they don't even have the guts to tell the American people what the hell they even stand for (socialism).

In case you can't tell, I'm a very independent person.

[xanadu]

Uh... what were Bush's main accomplishments again? I seem to have missed that in all the blather. I've asked over and over what was his single main (positive) accomplishment. I'm just trying to be fair since I've listed many bad things he's done. You would think that with all these Bush supporters they could come up with one thing. I heard something about an overhaul of SS. Nope, it never happened. I heard something about tax cuts. While that's a noble direction to go in, it seems the bulk of the cuts went to the rich and super rich including polluting industries. How can you praise tax cuts when he has run the federal deficit to unprecedented levels? That sounds like stupidity to me. Hitler created the autobahns which still serve today. What has Bush done that was even as good as what Hitler did? Arguably, Bush did as many bad things as Hitler but has no positive accomplishments to offer.

Bik, I'm not going to say anything about your comments on the patriot act and other abuses of the Bush administration. I try to be positive and never call names.

JMorgan, your argument seems to be that Israel was not the only country to attack another unprovokedly so that makes it alright. Is that about it? I've already heard the one about how many other countries have stolen land so it's OK for Israel to do it too. Murder has been done through the ages by heads of state so that one is ok. Is there any crime that we can't excuse here? Any crime at all, even genocide?

And what was it so bad that Carter did? He had a few accomplishments and is the best ex-president ever. The neos tell us he was 5 times worse than Bush but I have yet to hear one terrible thing he did just like I have yet to hear one really great thing Bush has done.

Do any of you think Bush has the right to wage war on his own say so regardless of what the rest of the country wants or what our representatives in congress want? How about if he invades Iran, is that OK with you neos too? Speak up now, I can't hear you.

[biknut]

Uh... what were Bush's main accomplishments again? I seem to have missed that in all the blather. I've asked over and over what was his single main 

I heard something about tax cuts. While that's a noble direction to go in, it seems the bulk of the cuts went to the rich and super rich including polluting industries.   Not True



How can you praise tax cuts when he has run the federal deficit to unprecedented levels? .

Spending is the problem, not taxes. The blame for that goes all around and you know it.

TAX CUTS

I'm self employed. I pay $10,000 a year in federal taxes. $6000 is SS. You can tell by the amount of taxes I pay I'm not rich. My taxes were cut by $1000. That's 10% of my total taxes. That's a huge amount. That's the most important ,and by far the most beneficial thing any president has ever done for me personally. You may not think a $1000 is very much, but it's more than any other president has ever done to help me and my family.

Liberals, and I'm not calling you one, love to whine about rich people benefiting the most
from tax cuts. That's because rich people pay most of the taxes, so of course they'll get the biggest benefits from a tax cut. That's totally fair. What difference does it make what someone else gets. The only thing that matters to me is how much help do I get.

[biknut]

1. He lead us into an unwinnable war on the basis of lies

I don't think so. You mean WMD? Hans Blik found about 15 tons on poison gas.

2. Routinely violates the constitution with signing statements, illegal detentions and other violations of law

Not true. If Bush was breaking the law he'd be arrested. Look what happened to Clinton

3. Gutted the bill of rights with the patriot act and other abominations.

Not true. First of all congress passed it. It only applies to terrorism, and it has a narrow scope.

4. Spied on americans, intercepted mail and all forms of communications without a warrant.

Clinton did the same thing, but that's beside the point. They can't do anything with the information they get unless they can make a case for terrorism.

5. Illegal detentions at Guantanamo including an american citizen J Padilla.

Not true. Nothing is Illegal about it of it would be stopped.

6. Bankrupted the usa with deficit spending and insane trade policies.

Not true. Congress controls spending. You don't know much about the government. There's only been a few years in the last 30 that we didn't spend more than we take in in taxes. Democrats are just as bad as Republicans at it.

7. Gave big business a free hand to rob the american public

That's just ridiculous. Step away from the bong. What about Nancy Polosi? She just pushed through a minimun wage law, but exempted a company in her district from having to pay it.

8. Relaxed FDA, EPA, OSHA and other regulations that protect the public.

I can't believe you're sticking up for the corrupt FDA. OSHA, I don't believe you know what you're talking about. OSHA has very strict guidelines, probably too strict IMO. Same goes for the EPA. If things were relaxed it wasn't much, or even enough. Sometimes regulations go to far. Think helmet law. We got that commie ass law repealed here in Texas. Twice.

[xanadu]

OK, bik, you've had your little run. You're up

1. He lead us into an unwinnable war on the basis of lies

I don't think so. You mean WMD? Hans Blik found about 15 tons on poison gas

Prove it. All I ever heard about was a few empty canisters that could have been used for poison gas. Anyway, Bush didn't tell us they had a little bit of poison gas, he said they had nukes. That was a lie.

2. Routinely violates the constitution with signing statements, illegal detentions and other violations of law

Not true. If Bush was breaking the law he'd be arrested. Look what happened to Clinton

Clinton was not arrested. No one has the authority to arrest a sitting president.

3. Gutted the bill of rights with the patriot act and other abominations.

Not true. First of all congress passed it. It only applies to terrorism, and it has a narrow scope.

It is true. It has been applied to common garden variety crimes already. The scope is not narrow and is constantly being expanded. I've been hit with regulations in my financial transactions that the bankers told me were from the patriot act. I don't think I'm a terrorist.

4. Spied on americans, intercepted mail and all forms of communications without a warrant.

Clinton did the same thing, but that's beside the point. They can't do anything with the information they get unless they can make a case for terrorism

Your naivete is breathtaking. He is violating the constitution and you don't give a damn because you got a tiny break on your taxes. You don't mind if they spy on you.

5. Illegal detentions at Guantanamo including an american citizen J Padilla.

Not true. Nothing is Illegal about it of it would be stopped.

The supreme court started looking into it and the Bush admin changed tactics and brought him into civilian court after holding him without charges for several years.

6. Bankrupted the usa with deficit spending and insane trade policies.

Not true. Congress controls spending...  Democrats are just as bad as Republicans at it.

It is true and no one is giving a free pass to congress or to the democrats on the issue. It's been largely the Iraq and Afghan wars that are killing us now.

7. Gave big business a free hand to rob the american public

That's just ridiculous. Step away from the bong. What about Nancy Polosi? She just pushed through a minimun wage law, but exempted a company in her district from having to pay it.

So that makes it ok for Bush?

8. Relaxed FDA, EPA, OSHA and other regulations that protect the public.

I can't believe you're sticking up for the corrupt FDA. OSHA, I don't believe you know what you're talking about. OSHA has very strict guidelines, probably too strict IMO. Same goes for the EPA. If things were relaxed it wasn't much, or even enough. Sometimes regulations go to far. Think helmet law. We got that commie ass law repealed here in Texas. Twice.

You are showing again your lack of knowledge or the fact you don't care. I care about pollution in the air, water and food I eat whether you do or not.

It you continue with the ad hominems, as I'm sure you will, I will not respond to you again.

[kgmax]

This is a few months old but, it is relevant and interesting.

http://www.huffingto...a-_b_29734.html

EXCERPT:

I'm not being paid. In fact, I am paying to do this. In fact, I am paying a lot of money to do this because in the legal profession, time is money, and I am also spending an incredible amount of time on this matter.

Why am I doing it? Imagine if someone dropped a thousand leaflets over your city that said "we will pay you enough money to support you, your immediate family and your extended family for the rest of your life if you turn over individuals who are 'murderers and terrorists.'" Imagine- your immediate family and your extended family taken care of for the rest of your life and all you have to do is turn over "murderers and terrorists."

When we started dropping the bombs in Afghanistan in 2001, we also started dropping something else. Leaflets. And not just in Afghanistan, but in Pakistan and other countries. Thousands upon thousands of leaflets offering some of the poorest and most desperate people in the world something that would be hard for even the average American to turn down: financial security for their families for life.

The entire article is interesting.

On tax cuts...

http://www.washingto...5120702608.html

Although the federal tax revenue has grown since the passage of the 2003 tax cuts -- from $1.9 trillion in 2004 to $2.1 trillion in 2005 -- the tax revenue measured against the size of the economy remains below the 2002 level and well below the level of 2001, when the first of Bush's five tax cuts was passed. "The argument that tax cuts will grow the economy and pay for themselves is very attractive, but it's just not true," MacGuineas said.
...
Democrats have long charged that the cuts overwhelmingly benefited the affluent. The liberal watchdog group Citizens for Tax Justice says that the richest 1 percent of Americans, with an average income of almost $1.3 million in 2009, would enjoy 53 percent of the value of the extension that year, while 78 percent would receive no benefit.

A recent study by economists at the Federal Reserve concluded that the dividend tax cut had no real impact on the stock market and prompted "only muted gain in total corporate payouts."

In contrast, Americans for Tax Reform maintains that dividend payouts among the largest companies have jumped 59 percent, while the number of firms offering dividends soared after the tax cuts.

and

http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm

CTJ’s new study conclusively exposes the chicanery of the Bush administration and its supporters in arguing that the tax cuts were even-handed. “After all,” they claimed, “the rich pay most of the taxes, so it’s only fair that they get the lion’s share of the tax cuts.” But in fact, in 2010 before the Bush tax cuts, the top one percent was expected to pay just over a quarter of all federal taxes (don’t feel too bad for these people; they’ll take in 19 percent of all the income). So a tax cut that gives the richest Americans more than half of its benefits is obviously anything but even-handed.

Compared to the federal taxes that would have been paid in 2010 before the tax cuts, Bush’s program reduces taxes on the wealthiest by 15 percent. For the remaining 99 percent of us, the tax cuts average only 5 percent. More tellingly, by 2010, the very rich will see their taxes fall by 5.7 percent of their income. For the remaining 99 percent, the average tax cut is only 1.2 percent of income.

I hate it when I agree with xanadu... [huh]

[biknut]

Here's the UN report if you care to see it. You won't see any of this sucking on the titty nipple of the leftist news you've been taken in by.

I didn't expect you to remember this because you were probably riding around the kitchen on your big wheel in your little dipey when it was happening.

I don't think so. You mean WMD? Hans Blik found about 15 tons on poison gas
[/quote]

"Prove it".


http://www.un.org/De...uments/6mar.pdf

Background
In its 1996 FFCD, and in the 2002 CAFCD, Iraq declared that it carried out R&D work on several compounds that are closely related to Sarin. However, Iraq declared that only Sarin and Cyclosarin were produced on an industrial-scale and weaponized. Iraq declared that, during the period 1984 to 1990, 795 tonnes of Sarin-type agents (GB, GF and a mixture of GB/GF) were produced. According to Iraq, approximately 732 tonnes of these agents were weaponized in aerial bombs, rocket and missile warheads. Iraq further declared that about 650 tonnes were consumed, during the period 1985 to 1988 and 35 tonnes were destroyed through aerial bombardment during the Gulf War. Iraq destroyed 127 tonnes of Sarin-type agents under UNSCOM supervision, including 76 tonnes in bulk and 51 tonnes from munitions. The figure of weaponized agent was based on an estimate of the average payloads of munitions and the quantity of agents produced represents crude quantities. Therefore, the figures given here of agent produced and their subsequent disposition do not precisely balance.

Then they found 500 more chemical bombs in 2003

http://www.freerepub...s/1653841/posts

Do you really think they really found every last one? Of course you do.

In case you were wondering the jews didn't have anything to do with it.



[quote]2. Routinely violates the constitution with signing statements, illegal detentions and other violations of law

Not true. If Bush was breaking the law he'd be arrested. Look what happened to Clinton
[/quote]

"Clinton was not arrested. No one has the authority to arrest a sitting president".

Clinton's ass was hauled, in front of a court of law, and convicted of lying under oath. Then he was rightly impeached by congress. That will never happen to Bush except in your malcontent dreams.

Also the jews didn't have anything to do with it. Sorry.



[quote]3. Gutted the bill of rights with the patriot act and other abominations.

Not true. First of all congress passed it. It only applies to terrorism, and it has a narrow scope.
[/quote]

"It is true. It has been applied to common garden variety crimes already. The scope is not narrow and is constantly being expanded. I've been hit with regulations in my financial transactions that the bankers told me were from the patriot act. I don't think I'm a terrorist."

Mine aren't bothering me. Your bankers are probably jews just giving you the shizz.

[quote]4. Spied on americans, intercepted mail and all forms of communications without a warrant.

Clinton did the same thing, but that's beside the point. They can't do anything with the information they get unless they can make a case for terrorism
[/quote]

"Your naivete is breathtaking. He is violating the constitution and you don't give a damn because you got a tiny break on your taxes. You don't mind if they spy on you".

What a worry wort. Congress can change it.



[quote]5. Illegal detentions at Guantanamo including an american citizen J Padilla.

Not true. Nothing is Illegal about it of it would be stopped.
[/quote]

"The supreme court started looking into it and the Bush admin changed tactics and brought him into civilian court after holding him without charges for several years".

Like I said, nothing is Illegal about it.

U.S. Can Confine Citizens Without Charges, Court Rules

By Jerry Markon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 10, 2005; Page A01

A federal appeals court yesterday backed the president's power to indefinitely detain a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil without any criminal charges, holding that such authority is vital during wartime to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.

http://www.washingto...5090900772.html

Again, nothing to do with the jews.


[quote]6. Bankrupted the usa with deficit spending and insane trade policies.

Not true. Congress controls spending...  Democrats are just as bad as Republicans at it.
[/quote]

"It is true and no one is giving a free pass to congress or to the democrats on the issue. It's been largely the Iraq and Afghan wars that are killing us now".

I guess we agree on this one, sort of.

If more jews were in charge, they actually might help us with this problem.



[quote]7. Gave big business a free hand to rob the american public

That's just ridiculous. Step away from the bong. What about Nancy Polosi? She just pushed through a minimun wage law, but exempted a company in her district from having to pay it.
[/quote]

"So that makes it ok for Bush"?

Well no, but all politicians do it. Bush is no better or worse than any others. It's unfair to single him out as the worst.

[quote]8. Relaxed FDA, EPA, OSHA and other regulations that protect the public.

I can't believe you're sticking up for the corrupt FDA. OSHA, I don't believe you know what you're talking about. OSHA has very strict guidelines, probably too strict IMO. Same goes for the EPA. If things were relaxed it wasn't much, or even enough. Sometimes regulations go to far. Think helmet law. We got that commie ass law repealed here in Texas. Twice.
[/quote]

"You are showing again your lack of knowledge or the fact you don't care. I care about pollution in the air, water and food I eat whether you do or not."

I just don't feel any of that has changed much for the worse. I do feel many times regulations go to far. They've spent millions of dollars in my neighborhood making the curbs at intersections wheelchair accessible. The one guy I see riding around my neighborhood prefers to ride in the street. If the new million dollar ramps weren't there, he could just ride 3 feet further and ride up a driveway to the sidewalk. He must not care about them, he still rides in the street.

Also there're still doing it so Bush didn't stop it.

Do you think the jews might be involved?

"It you continue with the ad hominems, as I'm sure you will, I will not respond to you again".[/quote]

I doubt this very much. The way you love to post extremely offensive material just to draw attention to yourself, you have to be used to it.

Blame it on the jews

[Grail]

5. Illegal detentions at Guantanamo including an american citizen J Padilla.

Not true. Nothing is Illegal about it of it would be stopped.

"The supreme court started looking into it and the Bush admin changed tactics and brought him into civilian court after holding him without charges for several years".

Like I said, nothing is Illegal about it.

U.S. Can Confine Citizens Without Charges, Court Rules

By Jerry Markon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 10, 2005; Page A01

A federal appeals court yesterday backed the president's power to indefinitely detain a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil without any criminal charges, holding that such authority is vital during wartime to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.

So...what about David Hicks? He is not a US citizen, but has been detained for years.

[biknut]

Through the willing surrender of two of its citizens to this process, the Australian Government has set a dangerous precedent that should alarm all Australians.

I guess you should ask the Australian Government why they did it.

http://www.theage.co...l?from=storylhs