30 replies to this topic

[shifter]

Some advise AGAINST eating grains as our bodies were not designed to eat it (introduced to the human race around 15000 years ago or so and evolution has not caught up yet).

Is there is a grain thats still good, or should I avoid all of them? Or maybe only have the grains for breakfast (oats in the porridge). If they are fermented though does that make the neasty ones good? I have heard that unfermented soy is toxic and liken the use of it in infants as child abuse....

[ajnast4r]

theres someone against everything.

grains are fine...

oats & quinoa are my favorite

[synaesthetic]

Yeah I love quinoa!!

[shadowrun]

What exactly is the deal with soy?

Cows milk is bad for you - Most Soy milks have carageenen in it - I like my Organic Light Original Vitasoy because it uses barley as a thickener instead of carageenen.

Regular milk is bad because of the pasteurization and the hormones
Raw milk is expensive and impossible to find (maybe dangerous)
I can't afford my own cow
Soy milk is likened as a poison that will kill my heart and give me bitch tits
Almond milk is expensive generally not organic and usually contains carageenen
Rice milk is too high glycemic
I could make my own milks - (but I don't have the time + I'd have to buy a machine)


What the heck can I drink with my poisonous, organic, stone ground grains in the morning!?

Oat or Hazelnut Milk?
(water isnt an option)

[shifter]

100% pure Coconut milk (not the ones with thickners and water added). Just water it down until it has the consistancy you like with your own water, otherwise your just paying extra money for the water.

It is the GOOD saturated fat, only thing to watch out for is the calories if your on a CR diet...

[mitkat]

What the heck can I drink with my poisonous, organic, stone ground grains in the morning!?

Honestly, most hilarious remark I've seen in a long time! [lol] [thumb]

[shadowrun]

Shifter -
I'm definately gonnna look into the coconut milk suggestion
Do you have a brand you reccomend?
Does it taste all...coconutty?
I assume the shell is probably thick enough not to have to worry about pesticides so I won't need an organic brand

This milk issue just riles me up!

[Matt]

Don't care about evolution and all that crap... grains are nice.

oats... yum yum.

[shifter]

The brand I use is called 'Ayam'. Its the only one I found thats 100% coconut extract. Comes in a 270ml can

Other brands seem to have stablizers and thickeners and water in them. The 'light' versions are just less coconut and more water - yet you pay the same price! I just water it down at home.

The taste is okay. Its not gross or anything just different. I have bought a coconut before and had a go at the water and flesh, and the milk and oil products taste much better anyway.

[william7]

Try buckwheat for breakfast. http://www.whfoods.c...odspice&dbid=11.

[buck1s]

I use Westsoy soy milk on my poison grains in the morning. The ingredients (as listed) are soybeans and water. I really had to look around to find one with no carageenan. It also only has 1g of sugar. Not too bad.

Soy products are one of those that people really flip out about sometimes and then say "OMG - soy makes you grow breasts" on one of these forums. My blood pressure goes up as I can't remember why I consume soy milk or rather why I think it's ok in the amount I do. So I head back to pubmed.org and start researching soy all over again. Then I'll find out that my level of consumption is way good for me and all will be well.

Soybeans and water? Tempeh? I'll take it.

[shadowrun]

Has anyone else heard information that when grains are toasted or cooked they form some cancerous chemical?...beyond the normal range of cancer caused by cooking

Shifter - Thanks for the recommendation

Elijah3 - I'd try Buckwheat for breakfast but my gf loves Kasha (toasted buckwheat) so we end up eating it for dinner or a snack at least 1 or more nights a week

Buck1s - I ended up with Light Original Vitasoy because it has a thicker consistency without the carageenen (like 1% Cows Milk) - (Filtered water, Organic Soy, Organic Cane Sugar (4g), Barley, vitamins) - I agree simple is often better and I've tried Westsoy - After Vitasoy (is a hard brand for me to find - Anecdotally I hear the japanese give little boxes of it to their kids) I just can't switch back. The extra 3g of sugar is definately unnecessary though

- I wish I could eat Steel Cut Oats every morning...I wouldn't need any milk!

[william7]

I use Westsoy soy milk on my poison grains in the morning.

I also use the organic, unsweetened, westsoy on my buckwheat, coarsely ground spelt, finely ground flaxseed, dates, and pure raw honey concoction I eat for breakfast. When available I top it off with fresh, unsweetened, cranberries. I would like to know where you get this "poison grains" idea from? If there's something I'm missing, please let me know.

[buck1s]

Elijah, I was just continuing shadowrun's little joke. I don't think grains are poisonous. I wish that I could eat them less, but I've realized that my cereal vice is one that I'll probably keep for awhile. I've tried some cereal by Ezekiel (sp?) but, man, that stuff is not good. I need to work more oats into my cereal. The Westsoy I use is unsweetened as well. I can't even contemplate stuff like Silk anymore. blech

[shadowrun]

I have a trick with the Ezekiel Brand

I had an old oats container - I poured in some of the Ezekiel - Then some slivered almonds - Then Some raisins - I basically did about 5 layers going up to the top - Then I shook it vigorously - It took me about 3 minutes total

I just open the container now and pour - Everything comes out great - The raisins and almonds do a great job of breaking up the flavor and adding sweetness

If needed I sometimes drop a teaspoon of raw honey in when I eat first eat it -
Now that tastes really good!

[ironchet]

I love anything coconut. recently i made muffins with coconut fluor. it was so heavenly. coconut fluor is low carb, high fiber and protein.

I love the Ezekiel Brand and Manna bread both are sprouted grain. I love grains and i can't seem to avoid it no matter how hard i try. I mean how are you gonna make a sandwhich without it.

[shadowrun]

You could slap two big leaves of iceburg lettuce together -
Not my style but I had a grilled cheese like that once...Tasted aight...a bit messy

[shadowrun]

Shifter -

I finally found a can of coconut milk
A thai brand in the ethnic food section (14 oz of coconut milk, Vitamin C, Soy Lecithin)
(it was hard finding one without potassium bisulfite)
It was extremely dense (thicker than canned cranberry sauce)
I blended it with 2 parts water and added a few teaspoons of organic cane sugar

Magnifique!

Great recommendation - its higher in fat and calories than i'd like and it takes a few minutes to blend - But i've heard nothing but great things about coconuts lately

Thanks!
I'm really excited I found an alternative and I managed to remove unfermented soy from my diet -

1 can Coconut Milk (no water added)
2 cans Water
(optional) Few tspn Organic Cane Sugar

Blend and store

[syr_]

Can someone post some good recipes for quinoa?

[xanadu]

The worst thing about grains is that they contain hydrocarbates which turn readily into sugar in the body. Sugar in excess of small amounts in our diet is poison, no joke. It is the reason most people are overweight or obese. Some people's fat is due to eating fat but most of it is from hydrocarbates. One of the worst things about eating a high glycemic diet is that it gives you food cravings. The more sugar or refined grains you eat, the more you crave. That's why eating a candy bar never leaves you feeling satisfied, not for long. Has anyone ever been hungry, eaten a sugar candy bar and then not felt hungry any more? It never happened to me when I ate them.

There are lots of other bad things about sugar besides overweight. Too much leads to diabetes and high blood sugar causes lots of damage to blood vessels, nerves and other body parts. You will not live to a ripe old age if you eat lots of sugar containing or sugar producing foods.

[shifter]

Glad you like the coconut milk. In our house its either that or ordinary cows milk. The coconut wins everytime (i'm the only one who uses it though).

[shadowrun]

SYR

Saute garlic and or onion in extra virgin olive oil
Optional (Add can of beans or Lentils)
Add half a can of tomato paste or half a can of Crushed or Diced tomatos
Spinach
Sprinkle in a nice dose of Oregano - Basil - Black Pepper - Salt -
(hot pepper if you like)
Stir until spinach is wilted
(mix in Quinoa or Have on the side)

I also make my Quinoa with no salt chicken broth instead of water- a dash of olive oil - and 2 garlic cloves - I add a little salt and pepper and just let it cook -

Damn good by itself!
(really great in rice)

The recipe is also good with any grain

[buck1s]

I'm pretty sure that I must be losing my mind because I remember posting in this thread. I remember that Shadowrun and Elijah had other posts here as well. Dang blueberries aren't working...

[Mind]

Posts between Jan 25th and Jan 30th were lost due to a database/software install error.

[senseix]

I really enjoy quinoa.

[icyT]

Some advise AGAINST eating grains as our bodies were not designed to eat it (introduced to the human race around 15000 years ago or so and evolution has not caught up yet). Is there is a grain thats still good, or should I avoid all of them? Or maybe only have the grains for breakfast (oats in the porridge). If they are fermented though does that make the neasty ones good? I have heard that unfermented soy is toxic and liken the use of it in infants as child abuse....

Any argument againt one grain could apply to them all. First off, let's avoid the word 'designed'. What it basically is, is that humans can't eat grain unless it's cooked (or maybe sprouted, I don't study them much).

We learned to cook, we figured out how to eat grains, and make pretty things from them.

Some people have allergies to certain things in certain grains. For them, the evolution argument applies. Sort of like the same reason lactose intolerant people can't drink milk.

I'm not really sure why everyone's convinced that we couldn't have adapted to eat these yet though. It's not the same as evolving multiple stomachs like cows do to eat grains, it's simply not being harmed by grains.

The only real criticism we could level against grains is:
1: They're high calorie, often processed and compacted to eat as pastries.
2: They're often stripped of whatever nutrient content they have, which probably isn't up to the level of veggies in the first place.
3: Veggies have more fibre and water, thus more bulk. Actually this is like 1.

Cows milk is bad for you. Regular milk is bad because of the pasteurization and the hormones

Lol. Hormooooones. I really think that's overrated. Sure, we inject hormones into cows, but don't the cows tend to have hormones in their body anyway? There's always hormones floating through the bloodstream. When you eat beef, you don't really worry about the hormones in the meat. I think hormones would just get digested or pooped out. Have there been any studies showing that the hormones in cows (natural or steroided up cows) have actually passed into a human's bloodstream and actually began effecting our endrocrine system? As for Pasteurization... I know the heating destroys some vitamins but I'm not certain that would actually cause anything harmful. More likely just vegan propoganda.

Has anyone else heard information that when grains are toasted or cooked they form some cancerous chemical?...beyond the normal range of cancer caused by cooking

I think I did hear something about that somewhere, probably from Mercola (he hates him the grains). I'm not sure what the carcinogen was though.

The worst thing about grains is that they contain hydrocarbates which turn readily into sugar in the body. Sugar in excess of small amounts in our diet is poison, no joke. It is the reason most people are overweight or obese. Some people's fat is due to eating fat but most of it is from hydrocarbates. One of the worst things about eating a high glycemic diet is that it gives you food cravings. The more sugar or refined grains you eat, the more you crave. That's why eating a candy bar never leaves you feeling satisfied, not for long. Has anyone ever been hungry, eaten a sugar candy bar and then not felt hungry any more? It never happened to me when I ate them.

There are lots of other bad things about sugar besides overweight. Too much leads to diabetes and high blood sugar causes lots of damage to blood vessels, nerves and other body parts. You will not live to a ripe old age if you eat lots of sugar containing or sugar producing foods.

Carbohydrates you mean? WATCH OUT FOR THE CARBS. Anyway yes, carbohydrates are made from various formations of glucose chains. It's not that they readily turn to sugar, it's that they do, always (cept for fibre cause humans can't digest that, fibre is a good carbohydrate you should love). They will up your blood sugar. If your muscle or liver glycogen is depleted, it will go to fill that up. Your brain and muscles' aerobic systems can also draw on that for fuel. Any left over gets stored in your fat.

Sugar isn't poison though. It's also not the reason most people are overweight or obese, grains are just a focused source of calories where you can eat more than you'll use, and that causes weight gain.

The reason for hunger would be that your food digests fast, your insulin spikes to keep up with it, and all of a sudden it stops but the insulin is still there. That makes your blood sugar drop, and I guess makes you hungry. But that's a dumb excuse because you can actually ignore it. During the moments your blood sugar is high you actually get a super rush and don't feel hungry in the slightest. It's very good for post-exercise because your glycogen stores should be shot and they'll slurp it.

[shadowrun]

Hi Tyciol

You're right, regular pasteurization is fine...

- The method enjoyed by Europeans and Canadians is different from the one enjoyed by Americans - Pastuerization involves a long slow cook at an exact temperature that will optimally kill all of the potentially harmful bacteria while leaving some of the good bacteria and enzymes -

- The American method requires a faster pastuerization at a much higher temperature (flash pastuerization) - All bacterial life is destroyed as well as most of the enzymes we would use to digest the milk - This milk is much harder to digest, taxes our pancreas more and has less nutritional value than the milk of our neighbors' cows

Once you add in any concern about Hormones there should be very few reasons to drink cow's milk -

I used to drink Organic Cow's Milk until I realized that most brands are ultra-pasteurized - Definately not worth the price

IMHO European and Canadian cheese is almost universally better - Slower pastuerization = More bacteria = More colorful and flavorful cheese

[Shepard]

If your muscle or liver glycogen is depleted, it will go to fill that up. Your brain and muscles' aerobic systems can also draw on that for fuel. Any left over gets stored in your fat.

Yes and no. It's not quite that cut and dry.

[glexia]

QUOTE (shadowrun)
Has anyone else heard information that when grains are toasted or cooked they form some cancerous chemical?...beyond the normal range of cancer caused by cooking

This chemical is acrylamide:

Occurrence in daily life
Acrylamide in fried or baked goods is produced by the reaction between asparagine and reducing sugars (fructose, glucose, etc.) or reactive carbonyls. Acrylamide in olives and prune juice comes through another process. It has been suggested that environmental pathways, such as the breakdown of the herbicide glyphosate (Roundup), are sources too. Smoking is also a major acrylamide producer. Estimates for the proportion in the diet coming from the consumption of coffee range from twenty to forty percent, however roasted coffee also contains a range of anti-cancer compounds and antioxidants. Acrylamide is not created by cooking by normal boiling, and nearly all uncooked foods do not contain any detectable amounts. Browning during baking, frying or deep-frying or over-cooking of foods will produce acrylamide. Acrylamides can also be created during microwaving.


Potential health risk
There is evidence that exposure to large doses can cause damage to the male reproductive glands. Direct exposure to pure acrylamide by inhalation, skin absorption, or eye contact irritates the exposed mucous membranes, e.g. the nose, and can also cause sweating, urinary incontinence, nausea, myalgia, speech disorders, numbness, paresthesia, and weakened legs and hands. In addition, the acrylamide monomer is a potent neurotoxin.


Cancer
According to a 2005 review[1], acrylamide reliably produces various types of cancer in experimental mice and rats. However, studies in human populations have failed to produce consistent results, and it remains unclear whether this is due to a reduced risk in a natural setting or the methodological difficulties inherent in such studies. For example, it might be difficult to isolate the effects of acrylamide because it is so ubiquitous in western diets.


Public awareness
In 2002-04-24, Swedish Livsmedelsverket (National Food Administration) announced that acrylamide can be found in baked and fried starchy foods, such as potato chips and breads, and concern was raised mainly as it may be a carcinogen. This was followed by a strong but short-lived interest of the press. On 2005-08-26, California attorney general Bill Lockyer filed a lawsuit against top makers of french fries and potato chips to warn consumers of the potential risk of consuming acrylamide
Potential health risk
There is evidence that exposure to large doses can cause damage to the male reproductive glands. Direct exposure to pure acrylamide by inhalation, skin absorption, or eye contact irritates the exposed mucous membranes, e.g. the nose, and can also cause sweating, urinary incontinence, nausea, myalgia, speech disorders, numbness, paresthesia, and weakened legs and hands. In addition, the acrylamide monomer is a potent neurotoxin.

From: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Acrylamide

[shadowrun]

Thanks glexia!

I thought I had imagined it for a while there