30 replies to this topic

[boily]

A small article I found in the Feb 2007 Australian Men's Health:

You may want to avoid supplements that contain L-arginine. Syracuse University researchers recently discovered that the amino acid diminishes the normal post-exercise release of growth hormone, which signals your body to build muscle and burn fat.

When men in the study popped an L-arginine capsule before pumping iron, their growth hormone output fell by half.

[zoolander]

Boily,

If you have the magazine could you possibly post a reference to the actual study??

[aikikai]

I thought studies showed l-arginine increased HGH levels?

[boily]

Boily,

If you have the magazine could you possibly post a reference to the actual study??

The magazine had no references, however I googled and found the study.....

http://www.fituncens...inina-e-gh.html

The same link also has a few other L-arginine studies, I don't know how reliable the info is, would like to discuss.....

Oral arginine does not stimulate basal or augment exercise-induced GH secretion in either young or old adults.

* Marcell TJ,
* Taaffe DR,
* Hawkins SA,
* Tarpenning KM,
* Pyka G,
* Kohlmeier L,
* Wiswell RA,
* Marcus R.

Department of Exercise Science, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, USA. marcellt@grc.nia.nih.gov

BACKGROUND: Growth hormone (GH) helps maintain body composition and metabolism in adults. However, basal and peak GH decline with age. Exercise produces a physiologic GH response that is subnormal in elderly people. Arginine (Arg) infusion can augment GH secretion, but the efficacy of oral Arg to improve GH response to exercise has not been explored. We investigated whether oral Arg increases GH secretion in young and old people at rest and during exercise. METHODS: Twenty young (Y: 22.1 +/- 0.9 y; SEM) and 8 old (O: 68.5 +/- 2.1 y) male and female subjects underwent three different trials following determination of their one-repetition maximum strength (1-RM); exercise only (EO; 3 sets, 8-10 reps at 85% of 1-RM; on 12 separate resistive lifts), Arg only (5.0 g), or Arg + exercise. Blood samples were collected between successive lifts, and GH (ng x ml(-1)) was determined via RIA. RESULTS: In Y vs O: Basal GH secreted (area under the curve) was 543.6 +/- 84.0 vs 211.5 +/- 63.0. During EO, values were 986.6 +/- 156.6 and 517.8 +/- 85.5. Both were significantly lower in the older individuals (p < .05). Oral Arg alone did not result in any increase in GH secretion at rest (310.8 +/- 73.2 vs 262.9 +/- 141.2). When Arg was coadministered during exercise, GH release was not affected in either the young or old and appeared to be blunted in the young compared to the exercise only trial in the young. CONCLUSION: Based upon these findings, we concluded that oral Arg does not stimulate GH secretion and may impair GH release during resistive exercise.

I thought studies showed l-arginine increased HGH levels?

Thought it was interesting myself, as I was looking for a source of L-arginine to do the opposite

[boily]

I would also like to know who supps with L-arginine, how much and what personal benefits can be attributed to it?

[boily]

Further google searching yeilded this link:


http://blog.xtend-li...nt-warning.html

Sounds like this guy knows what he is talking about??

[ajnast4r]

i take argenine AKG in a mixture before workouts, and my workouts are WAY more intense when i take it...

def have to look into that

[shadowrun]

There is a way to make your own home No2 -
Basically a muscle volumizer mix with arginine powder and a sugary juice mix
I forget the exact recipe but you can find it on a bodybuilding forum

As a byproduct I've also noticed increased blood flow to my nether regions... it fades after a few hours and i'm sure theres a much better supplement for that out there

I heard it was supposed to help you heal after a workout -
but I never experienced any difference

Most of my pre-workout energy I ascribed to my creatine -
Maybe the arginine had some effect

Overall i'd say I thought it was a fun supplement to try but completely unnecessary

*Edit Spelling

Edited by shadowrun, 27 January 2007 - 06:45 AM.

[the big b]

It was my understanding that Arginine when taken with Lysine and Ornithine 45 minutes prior to bed increased the amount of overall Growth Hormone released by the body. I have seen this several times over the last 2 years, but sadly I cannot back this up with any studies at the moment. Perhaps we should take the time to list as many studies as possible on Arginine and let the ImmInst community come to a conclusion.

[Shepard]

Arginine pyroglutamate and lysine were shown to increase GH levels (the pre-bed stack). I know I've also seen a study with oral arginine @ 9 grams (don't remember the form) showing an appreciable increase in GH levels.

[doug123]

This is from Dr. Levy's educational and informational site:

Amino acids

·        Molecular building blocks of protein.
·        Given for precursor value, not to supplement protein intake.
·        Best taken on an empty stomach.

·        L-arginine (1000-2000 mg twice daily)

o        Used in treatment of hypertension, coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure (Circulation. 1996. 93. 2135-2141), peripheral vascular disease, erectile dysfunction.
o        Precursor of nitric oxide.
o        May be dangerous in those on prescription nitroglycerin preparations.
o        Theoretically, may exacerbate outbreaks of herpes. However there is data that L-arginine supplementation does NOT affect lysine levels.
o        Supplementation may deplete glycine levels.

[biknut]

One word of caution about Arginine. If you get a virus like the flu, stop taking Arginine. Arginine to the flu, is like gasoline to a fire.

I like a brand called NOX3.

[aikikai]

So, what is a safe dose for l-arginine and what other supplement should it be combined with?

[shadowrun]

An empty stomach for Arginine -
I think it goes well with other stand alone aminos like Lysine

I took 2 grams at a pop - when I made my at home recipe Nox2 I think I used something like 4-5 grams

I don't know how safe in the long term that high a dose is -
1-2g is safer if you want to make a usual supplement

Personally after a few weeks with arginine - I lost the erection effect

[orbital]

l-Arginine and l-lysine shouldn't be taken together, though, since they compete for absorption.

Despite this, I've seen HGH release formulas at etailers which include both!

[Gerald W. Gaston]

l-Arginine and l-lysine shouldn't be taken together, though, since they compete for absorption.

Despite this, I've seen HGH release formulas at etailers which include both!

Arginine PyroGlutamate and L-Lysine do not compete though, and that is what you see in most formulas now.

[Brainbox]

One word of caution about Arginine. If you get a virus like the flu, stop taking Arginine. Arginine to the flu, is like gasoline to a fire.

This is interesting. Do you have any refrences?

Thanks.

[neogenic]

I am certified with the ISSN (International Society of Sports Nutrition) and was at the research presentation by the lead author in Las Vegas recently. It was eye-opening. Arginine blunted GH release peri-workout. Exercise (resistance) alone actually yields a substantial jump in GH. Arginine yields a boost in GH as well at 5-10g dose, but it shunts the huge rise from exercise. What would make sense after seeing her data would be POST-workout use of arginine to continue the GH levels being elevated above baseline. Further, there's a host of health benefits and potential recovery benefits from the NO effects. Its not as simple as writing it off, she didn't even come to that conclusion. Timing is of interest though.

[neogenic]

Oh and Citrulline Malate maybe the superior supplement all the way around if you look at those pathways (in regards to exercise benefit). Arginine is an activator of Herpes (all forms) BTW and I think that is truly the thought-process of Arginine-Lysine combinations since Lysine controls outbreaks. This is why you'll see Lysine in cold sore preparations.

[platypus]

Would the LEF Daytime Growth Hormone Formula be any good for stimulating HGH release?:

http://www.lef.org/n.../item00188.html

Standard dose contains:

1000mg of vitamin C
100mg of vitamin B6
3000mg of L-Ornithine hydrochloride
500mg of L-tyrosine

[dannov]

Shepard is on the money, let me explain.

If you're taking L-Arg or L-Arg HCL, you need 10-30g of it. It needs to be taken with Lysine as well, which I have read amplifies the effect by 10x, they work synergistically. This is to be taken when you wake up on an empty, post-workout, pre-sleep on an empty.

L-Arginine Pyroglutamate is far more potent and effective. You need merely a couple grams a day. I managed to coerce a manufacturer to sell me a kilo of it by paying the 35 dollar package breaking fee, came out to 150ish after breaking fee and credit card usage charge. I bought a kilo of Lysine for real cheap. Btw, manufacturer sold:

L-Arg HCL - 18/kilo
L-Arg Pyro - 92/kilo

I had to pay like 105 or something cuz I wasn't ordering 25 kilos or 50 at a time, no biggie. Was real kind of them in fact.

Shipment comes in soon, but research I've done points to Pyro glut and Lysine being the combo to shoot for.

[chipdouglas]

Arginine pyroglutamate and lysine were shown to increase GH levels (the pre-bed stack). I know I've also seen a study with oral arginine @ 9 grams (don't remember the form) showing an appreciable increase in GH levels.

Doesn't such a dose bring on osmotic diarrhea in some ? I seem to recall reading this.

[chipdouglas]

http://www.longerhea...om/formula.html

Since the above link is on topic, I thought I'd post it here, although I'm sure some of you are already acquainted with the ALCAR+ Ornithine combo.

[blackpath]

Fascinating about the Pyroglutamate form--I wonder if this gets it past the blood-brain barrier more efficiently? Thats what I recall the real bottleneck to be--L-ornithine was about twice as potent as L-arginine in stimulating the pituitary. But this info is 20 years old at least.

I experimented with doses of L-arginine, arginine free base, and L-ornithine in the early 80's. I got the most substantial anabolic results from the L-arginine / L-ornithine stack of 10g / 2g. I never saw anecdotal evidence of L-lysine helping--I did indeed try adding it. Of course I was in my early 20's and already brimming with HGH--I might notice the difference much more now.

I still include 3g of l-arginine with my morning supplement dose--I notice its knocks off about 5 points of my blood pressure when I take it everyday.



[
QUOTE=dannov]Shepard is on the money, let me explain.

If you're taking L-Arg or L-Arg HCL, you need 10-30g of it. It needs to be taken with Lysine as well, which I have read amplifies the effect by 10x, they work synergistically. This is to be taken when you wake up on an empty, post-workout, pre-sleep on an empty.

L-Arginine Pyroglutamate is far more potent and effective. You need merely a couple grams a day. I managed to coerce a manufacturer to sell me a kilo of it by paying the 35 dollar package breaking fee, came out to 150ish after breaking fee and credit card usage charge. I bought a kilo of Lysine for real cheap. Btw, manufacturer sold:

L-Arg HCL - 18/kilo
L-Arg Pyro - 92/kilo

I had to pay like 105 or something cuz I wasn't ordering 25 kilos or 50 at a time, no biggie. Was real kind of them in fact.

Shipment comes in soon, but research I've done points to Pyro glut and Lysine being the combo to shoot for.[/quote]

[dannov]

Fascinating about the Pyroglutamate form--I wonder if this gets it past the blood-brain barrier more efficiently?

Bingo, right on the head. :D

Examples of ratios of Pyroglut and Lysine:

1500mg L-Arg Pyr and 750mg L-Lysine
1000mg L-Arg Pyr and 500 mg L-Lysine

So, basically 250mg of L-Lysine for every 500mg of L-Arg Pyro.

[ortcloud]

trans d tropin is the best thing I have found, it is topical and a bit expensive though. but blows away any formula I have tried which seem to lose their effect over time and I have tried alot, including the real injectable.

[malbecman]

The best part is how yummy it tastes........ [wis]

[ortcloud]

umm I said topical not tropical ! haha

[mike250]

topical l-arginine?. I heard about it being good for blood circulation in diabetics.

[stephen_b]

One word of caution about Arginine. If you get a virus like the flu, stop taking Arginine. Arginine to the flu, is like gasoline to a fire.

This is interesting. Do you have any refrences?

Thanks.

I found this study

DTH did not differ between diet groups. On d 6 and 31 postchallenge, mitogen-induced proliferation of splenocytes from mice fed the arginine diet was >1.5-fold that of mice fed the control diet (P < 0.05). Body weight and influenza lung viral and serum antibody titers did not differ between diet groups. These data suggest that despite significant enhancement of in vitro mitogen-induced splenocyte proliferation, arginine supplementation does not have a biologically significant effect on antigen-specific in vivo indicators of immune function in this model.

Stephen