87 replies to this topic

[boily]

you should be avoiding inio exchange whey...

its the "dirtiest" method of isolation, and destroys alot of the beneficial protein fractions

This is interesting to me as I'm using ion exchange whey.
Could someone elaborate on this "dirty method"?

[tintinet]

If ya swallow Will Brink's take on whey:

http://www.bodybuild.../willbrink3.htm


The Pros & Cons Of Isolates, & The Micro Filtered vs. Ion Exchange Debate.

Isolates

WPIs generally contain as much as 90-96% protein. Research has found that only whey proteins in their natural undenatured state (i.e. native conformational state) have biological activity. Processing whey protein to remove the lactose, fats, etc. without losing its biological activity takes special care by the manufacturer. Maintaining the natural undenatured state of the protein is essential to its anti-cancer and immune stimulating activity. The protein must be processed under low temperature and/or low acid conditions as not to "denature" the protein and this becomes an even greater concern when making high grade isolates vs, concentrates.

WPIs contain >90% protein contents with minimal lactose and virtually no fat. The advantage of a good WPI is that it contains more protein and less fat, lactose, and ash then concentrates on a gram for gram basis. However, it should be clear to the reader by now that whey is far more complicated than simple protein content, and protein content per se is far from the most important factor when deciding which whey to use. For example, ion exchange has the highest protein levels of any isolate. Does that make it the best choice for an isolate? No, but many companies still push it as the holy grail of whey.

Ion-Exchange

Ion exchange is made by taking a concentrate and running it through what is called an "ion exchange" column to get an "ion exchange whey isolate." Sounds pretty fancy but there are serious drawbacks to this method. As mentioned above, whey protein is a complex protein made up of many sub fraction peptides that have their own unique effects on health, immunity, etc. Some of these subfractions are only found in very small amounts. In truth, the subfractions are really what ultimately makes whey the unique protein it is.

Due to the nature of the ion exchange process, the most valuable and health promoting components are selectively depleted. Though the protein content is increased, many of the most important subfractions are lost or greatly reduced. This makes ion exchange isolates a poor choice for a true third-generation whey protein supplement, though many companies still use it as their isolate source due to the higher protein content. Ion exchange isolates can be as high as 70% or greater of the subfraction Beta-lactoglobulin, (the least interesting and most allergenic subfraction found in whey) with a loss of the more biologically active and interesting subfractions.

So, the pros of an ion exchange whey is for those who simply want the very highest protein contents per gram, but the cons are that the higher protein content comes at cost; a loss of many of the subfractions unique to whey. Not an acceptable trade in my view considering the fact that the actual protein differences between a micro filtered type isolate is minimal from that of an ion exchange.

Micro-Filtered Isolates

This segues us nicely into looking at the micro filtered whey isolates. With the array of more recent processing techniques used to make WPI's - or pull out various subfractions - such as Cross Flow Micro filtration (CFM®) ultra filtration (UF), micro filtration (MF), reverse osmosis (RO), dynamic membrane filtration (DMF), ion exchange chromatography, (IEC), electro-ultrafiltration (EU), radial flow chromatography (RFC) and nano filtration (NF), manufacturers can now make some very high grade and unique whey proteins. Perhaps the most familiar micro filtered isolate to readers, would be CFM®*.

Although the term "cross flow micro filtered" is something of a generic term for several similar ways of processing whey, The CFM® processing method uses a low temperature micro filtration techniques that allows for the production of very high protein contents (>90%), the retention of important subfractions, extremely low fat and lactose contents, with virtually no undenatured proteins. CFM® is a natural non-chemical process which employs high tech ceramic filters, unlike ion exchange, which involves the use of chemical regents such as hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide. CFM® whey isolate also contains high amounts of calcium and low amounts of sodium.

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by: Will Brink

To Sum This Section Up:

* The pros of concentrates is there may be higher levels of various and potentially beneficial - growth factors, lipids, phospholipids, and other potentially interesting compounds. The cons are lower protein gram for gram than isolates, and higher levels of fat and lactose that some people may wish to avoid. Like all whey proteins, not all concentrates are created equal in their levels of the above mentioned compounds of interest.
* The pros of Ion exchange isolates is extremely low fat and lactose levels, with the highest protein levels (on a gram for gram basis). The cons - which outweigh the pros in my view - is the loss of important subfractions in favor of higher amounts of Beta-Lac.
* The pros of well made micro filtered isolates is a high protein content (90% or above), low lactose and fat levels, very low levels of undenatured proteins, and the retention of important subfractions in their natural ratios. There really are no cons per se, unless the person wants the additional compounds (e.g., higher levels of growth factors, CLA, etc.) found in a well made concentrate.

* = CFM® is a trade mark process (hence the annoying trade mark sign next to when ever I write CFM) of Glanbia Nutritionals, a large dairy company out of Ireland with offices in the US.

[nubrain]

AOR's Advanced Whey unflavored I like alot.

[Shepard]

Jay Robb's is easily the best.  Organic, no chemicals, and stevia used as a sweetener (I don't like the taste of stevia, yet this protein powder tastes great).

Aren't there quite a few proteins that fall under that category (organic, no chemicals, natural sweetener)? Any particular reason Jay Robb's protein is worth the price over the others?

[tintinet]

Jay Robb's name and cut of profit, evidently....

[DukeNukem]

Aren't there quite a few proteins that fall under that category (organic, no chemicals, natural sweetener)? Any particular reason Jay Robb's protein is worth the price over the others?

Name some others. I'm more than happy to switch to a lower priced maker.

[Shepard]

Name some others.  I'm more than happy to switch to a lower priced maker.

Well, apparently I've been thinking incorrectly. I was almost sure Jarrow and LEF proteins fit in the same category, but the only other protein I could find after a quick search that specified no growth hormone was Mercola's Whey Healthier protein.

[ajnast4r]

Name some others.  I'm more than happy to switch to a lower priced maker.

ion echange protein is garbage and to be avoided

jarrow... this is right off my bottle. its 13$/2.2 lbs on vitacost...

jarrow always comes through with winners

Edited by ajnast4r, 17 February 2007 - 01:24 AM.

[Shepard]

If ya swallow Will Brink's take on whey

I would go ahead and recommend reading all of Will Brink's articles on whey, or all of them, for that matter. He has one on the amount of hormones present in whey that might interest some people.

http://www.brinkzone.com/articles.php

[boily]

If ya swallow Will Brink's take on whey:

Thanks tintinet for digging up that article and posting, learnt quite a few things.

[chrisp2]

Does Whey go bad?

I have some whey that is a few years old, and I don't see why, if completely sealed, the protein would degrade substantially.

Am I wrong? Should I throw it all out?

[ajnast4r]

Does Whey go bad?

I have some whey that is a few years old, and I don't see why, if completely sealed, the protein would degrade substantially.

Am I wrong?  Should I throw it all out?

if its past the exp date, throw it out

[Pablo M]

If it's just a couple months past it's fine. If it's a year or so I would probably toss it.

[chrisp2]

Can anyone recommend their favorite Whey Protein Blends?

From what I understand taking a blend at night, or during the day when you want a slow release of protein's into your body, is ideal.

While Whey Protein Isolate is ideal for consumption upon waking or post-work out.

I have used LEF's in the past, but am likely to move onto Jarrow because it is half the price and probably very similar in quality, just missing the Lactoferrin.

[alpine]

ErgoPharm Growth Factor Pro is probably one of the best. Its too expensive for most though. It's probably one of the most advanced proteins you can buy.

Honestly, Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey (Gold Standard) 10lb bags (or 5lb jugs) is one of, if not the most, economic choices. It's also a very good quality. The taste is good (Chocolate is the best IMO), it has extremely good mixability - no clumps. Most proteins don't do that. It also has a good ingredient profile. Its more WPI than WPC, good protein amount per serving, high BCAA content, and some digestive enzymes added in. Its NOT a budget protein, they are simply so huge and do so much volume (#1 selling protein powder) that they have been able to wittle down their margins due to this volume of business. It's pretty hard to get a better deal. I haven takin a TON of brands and I always seem to come back to ON for my standard base protein.

If you drink a lot of shakes per day (3-4+) then this is probably the best choice. If you just have 1 a day or less, you can spring for a more advanced (generally overpriced) product.

As far as a blend, there isnt a TON of difference as long as its whey. Blending with WPC (concentrate) brings down the cost and its the cheapest. You want the first listing to be Isolate (WPI) or a Hydrolyzed protein. Overall, its not going to make a huge difference. Typically the pure Isolate forms are more expensive though.

Word to the wise, when it comes to protein. Pay less, get more. http://www.allthewhey.com These are just generic proteins in bags for cost. Most come from the same place. It's like rebranded LCD monitors.

BTW, a pure whey isolate w/ nothing else is VERY bitter and hard to drink. Another reason I end up liking ON again and again. Day after day, it doesn't get unbearable. Taste, mixability, ingredients, cost... all things considered its great.

Edited by alpine, 10 March 2007 - 06:51 PM.

[Brainbox]

Hmm, contrary to popular believe: here is an animal study that states that in rat's soy protein could be as effective as whey for response of skeletal muscle protein synthesis and translation initiation. Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, soy protein does not cause the insulin spiking that could occur after taking whey, but I'm not sure about this since I did not come across specific research on the use of soy protein regarding this issue. Anyone?

(I do not want to derail this thread, it just seemed relevant in a broader sense regarding supplemental protein intake.)

[chrisp2]

Word to the wise, when it comes to protein. Pay less, get more. http://www.allthewhey.com These are just generic proteins in bags for cost. Most come from the same place. It's like rebranded LCD monitors.

But how good (tasting) is their Whey?

I think I had Optimum years ago (Chocolate) and didn't really care for it. (The taste)

[shadowrun]

Optimum tastes rather good IMO and it is fairly economical

Throw a little pure cocoa powder in if you want to enhance the flavor

I have since moved on to Jarrow Whey because it has no artificial sweeteners - it tastes pretty blah but I throw in lots of cocoa powder when I have my after work-out shake - It was $14 for 2 LBS

[tintinet]

If yer out for taste and economy, (both often deemed superior to ON, although ON remains pretty popular), try Champion Pure Whey Protein Stack (any flavor, although, likely, standards like Chocolate and Vanilla are the most reliably likable), or Dymatize Elite Protein.

For pure taste, IMO, although not cheap, are PVL Whey Gourmet Protein and Beverly Muscle Provider (one of the best, and best tasting, but also most expensive whey based proteins I've ever encountered.)

[curious_sle]

Um, i haven't so far seen trueprotein.com mentioned...
online custommix... select the whey quality you like, flavourinsystem, add multivitamin or digestive enzymes choose your sweetener or none... and it's made for you.

I got myself some with dutch cocoa and stevia and boy that's a freaking treat!

[curious_sle]

-> http://www.trueprote...om_product.aspx
You get some rebate with this code: EGO693 it's from the guy in sci.life-extension i got the link so i get a few percent off and he get's a small extra whey... damn i could use a discountcode where i get something in return for pimping this :-)

nah, I just like it.

[tintinet]

There are a kabillion options there. Which do you recommend for biologic activity and taste?

[curious_sle]

Um, i am no expert... others will certaily chime in...
for digestion and taste i'd say add Aminogen. I took Dutch Chocolate fudge (dutch cocoa, that's it) and stevia as sweetener. I was very plain and took Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltrated but again the good thing is you can choose :-).

Now if there only was someone doing a multivitamin this way... MyCustomMix in 16 O-Caps per day or so :-)

[samonakuba]

Just thought I'd mention something about ON Gold Standard... The taste is fine if ultra-sweet drinks are your cup of tea, but the artificial sweetener aftertaste drives me nuts. Jarrow's on the other hand tastes like powdered milk, so it mixes well with just about anything. Now if I could get a 10lb bag of something like that I'd be much happier....

Edited by samonakuba, 22 March 2007 - 02:04 AM.

[tintinet]

ON is the popular, relatively economy priced standard sold by most "body building" type websites. Not bad, but, IMO, hardly "best," especially for any flavor other than chocolate. Although I gave up on ON a long while ago, I found their vanilla, cookies and cream, and rocky road flavors nauseating after a short time.

[shifter]

Is there such a protein powder product out there that is NOT hydrolised, mega processed and tastes real?

I would want to take it for health purposes but most I see are loaded with artificial sweeteners and hydrolised proteins it seems to be a contradiction to take it to enhance my health. I dont care how it tastes. It cant be any worse than algae. hmmmm, if Beta carotene overload is okay, I could just try taking massive amounts of chlorella for a protein fix (maybe my skin will turn green)

Oh yeah, I dont want one made from soy or egg whites..... Im not that difficult....really

[ageless]

I said it before and I'll say it again, I think there are few wheys comparable to AOR's...
http://www.aor.ca/in...vanced_whey.php
It isn't cheap though.

[ageless]

Um, i am no expert... others will certaily chime in...
for digestion and taste i'd say add Aminogen. I took Dutch Chocolate fudge (dutch cocoa, that's it) and stevia as sweetener. I was very plain and took Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltrated but again the good thing is you can choose :-).

Now if there only was someone doing a multivitamin this way... MyCustomMix in 16 O-Caps per day or so :-)

Really nice site, but the cost for shipping to Canada would be $21.42 for 4lb of protein for me.

[ajnast4r]

Um, i am no expert... others will certaily chime in...
for digestion and taste i'd say add Aminogen. I took Dutch Chocolate fudge (dutch cocoa, that's it) and stevia as sweetener. I was very plain and took Whey Protein Isolate Microfiltrated but again the good thing is you can choose :-).

Now if there only was someone doing a multivitamin this way... MyCustomMix in 16 O-Caps per day or so :-)

just so you know their premium & bsl flavors all are sweetened with splenda & ace-k

[curious_sle]

ah, thank you. I must have overlooked that part ( /me goes to the corner and is ashamed for em, 2 minutes )